The once formidable Commonwealth awaits its final destination at one of the UNSC’s ship breaking facilities.
Discuss your thoughts on the Halo Reach default map, Boneyard, here.
Feedback clarity point #1.
Are we talking Invasion Boneyard or BTB Boneyard? Because they are two very different things to talk about.
If invasion, it’s a good map that is perhaps too easy to defend on and as an invasion map in itself needs altered in a way I’ll have to find the appropriate thread to detail.
As a BTB map, Slayer, Flag or what have you…it’s horrible. Only half of the map is used and it’s rather simple to hide out on the unused side of the map. It is also a rather horridly designed assymetrical map. No I do not think the full map can be used in BTB as is, with everyone in some form of vehicle…maybe. But one team spawns in essentially a trap while the other has 90% of the map available within 30 feet of their spawn. (I think it’s red, whoever has the road to the unused side, the stairs up, and the building’s garage)
> Feedback clarity point #1.
>
> Are we talking Invasion Boneyard or BTB Boneyard? Because they are two very different things to talk about.
Its the map in general. Its use in both BTB and Invasion can be discussed. The feedback thread is meant to gather data to help 343i with map layout changes when it comes to weapons, objectives, and spawning.
For invasion… I think it needs some sort of “protection” for elite spawn kill in phase 1, maybe gametype changes so theres 4 seconds of invulnerability on spawn?
for phase 2, everything runs perfect.
And for phase 3, well, theres no problem I see
and for BTB, I guess we could use the whole map if the middle section 2 entrances were blocked, and more vehicles should be added, on both sides
Well in that case I won’t ask the same thing when I review Spire in a moment.
But the biggest issue is the same with both maps. They are designed as larger than Sandtrap (Halo 3) maps but with nearly half the vehicles and ability to be played like Sandtrap.
Boneyard slayer/flag specifically is played in the Phase 2/3 zone of invasion. Which excludes probably half of the map’s full size. If one does wander over there, there isn’t anything to do but hide.
My opinion of the simplest solution to make it viable as a BTB map is to pivot and stretch the current configuration to include all of the map like phase 3 of invasion. Allow one team to spawn in the Core’s building while the other gets the phase one zone (the offense spawns to the hill areas).
The comments I make within this post shall be in regards to this maps usage within Multiplayer engagements outside of the Invasion playlist.
It goes without saying that Boneyard and Spire were made specifically for Invasion-based gameplay. Their matches within BTB and other playlists normally end with one team leaving the game very upset. Regardless of the reason for the teams discontent, these maps, although proper in their own right, leave room for improvement. I see three plausible solutions to help upgrade these maps.
- Reorganize the maps to provide team bases farther away from each other with viable cover.- Add more incentives via sandbox items to help direct map movement towards the unused parts of the map.- Divide the maps into two or three smaller, but separate arena maps.
Item 1 - Team Base Shift
Item number one on the list has already been touched by a member within this thread.
> My opinion of the simplest solution to make it viable as a BTB map is to pivot and stretch the current configuration to include all of the map like phase 3 of invasion. Allow one team to spawn in the Core’s building while the other gets the phase one zone (the offense spawns to the hill areas).
For Boneyard specifically, it would be necessary to shake up weapon and vehicle locations as well as add Teleporters, Gravity Lifts, or Mancannons to aid in map movement. The team spawning on the Elite’s phase one side would also require a bit more cover. This could be resolved through the inclusion of Forge items.
Item 2 - Map Incentive Shift
The next item focuses on completely shifting the focus of the map. In Boneyard’s current state, gamers force most of their efforts in two main locations; the Commonwealth and the no-man’s land where the Scorpion spawns. In order to broaden that horizon, it is necessary to move certain incentives around. Like most changes, there are multiple ways to do this, so I’ll outline only one.
Instead of placing the Scorpion in the middle of no-man’s land, place it on the Elite’s phase one spawn closer towards the cliff drop-off. In it’s absence, add a Rocket, Laser, Plasma Launcher, or Fuel Rod Gun (replace the RL in the Commonwealth with a Grenade Launcher or Concussion Rifle). This change, all on its own, allows both teams the incentive to go towards the Scorpion on one side, Banshee on the other, or power weapons in the middle. I’d go on, but I’ve got other items to take care of.
Item 3 - Smaller Map Creation
The last alternative to resolving Boneyard’s stagnant gameplay, outside of Invasion, is to chop the map up into pieces. There are multiple ways to do this, but only two I find relevant. They roughly reflect Invasion’s phase one and phase two locations. Here’s how it’s done.
The first map takes place on the phase one portion of the map. One team spawns near the bridge side by the mountain while the other team spawns near the construction equipment by the cliff. This smaller map will focus more on infantry combat with the inclusion of lighter support vehicles (nothing stronger than a Revenant). Of course, various transportation -Yoink!- (teleports, gravity lifts, man cannons) would need to be tested to help promote map movement.
Map number two is held on the exact opposite side of phase one. Basically, the rest of the map not playable on map one is playable on map part two. Teams would spawn in similar locations as in map one, yet closer to the main building (Invasion phase 3 core location). This map could support larger vehicles and maybe aerial engagements as well. As before, the map would need to be tested for transportation -Yoink!- (teleports, gravity lifts, man cannons) to enhance map movement.
Conclusion
Boneyard is an all-around great map. It’s flaws are not with its design, but its matchmaking setup outside of Invasion. As stated above, there are a number of ways to alleviate the stress found in nominal multiplayer gametypes. Personally, I’d create three or four different map variants, aside from the Invasion version, for usage on Boneyard. Have two smaller maps that work well in large and small teams (4v4 - 8v8) while we use another map or two for BTB (6v6 - 8v8). Thoughts?
-Always Hope
The current spawn and map usage isn’t interesting or fair (still(arguably, as it did use to be worse near launch)), nor does it utilize the entire map well. Either use the map better or chop it up as already suggested above. Don’t continue to treat such a large area like it’s like a quiet back road or something.
I’d like to see one sided objective games using different player/weapon/vehicle/objective spawns and capture locations. Specifically I don’t think the flag in 1flag should be totally out in the open as it is; as long as no one spawns next to it when picking it up the drive back is usually easy peasy. Though putting it in the core room would also be a no-no (shudders). That large room (not the back stairs) between the core room and the spartans vehicle bay should work well in theory. As for the return point, I’m not sure… Maybe the phantom pickup spot will still work well. Also it presents a risk vs reward short cut opportunity through the base where time can be saved or lost (shorter path but easier area to defend and return if stopped).
Boneyard
I think it goes without saying that this map is VERY different based on its gametype. I’ll start with invasion. Boneyard is a blast to play on invasion, and it is usually the highlight of my session of Halo: Reach.
First Phase
The first phase is well balanced, but you need a clever team if your an elite. It can be somewhat easy or very hard. If you have a good team who will spawn you inside the ship with squad spawn, it is usually easy. However, if you have a team who just charges without any communication at all, you will find yourself running to the same exact spot every minute. However, this is actually a good quality of the map: it requires teamwork. If you play as the spartans, you will find that this map has you just sitting in the same place until 1 generator gets attacked. Then you spend only 5 seconds getting there. This may be good for teamwork on the elites part, but the spartan team usually doesn’t need to talk at all. When the elites are charging toward the ship, I feel like I’m at a target practice range. Overall, however, I feel this is an OK phase.
Second Phase
The second phase is a very good phase. It has the generators spaced out, and would require more communication on the Spartans part. There is still areas where the elites can spawn each other that are fairly close to the generators, and the Spartan spawns (being close to the generators, but not too much) make these battles fun and intense. The generators are a fair distance from the elites spawn, so the Spartans will be rewarded quite a bit of time to regenerate shields and health for each wave of enemies they defeat. As a Spartan, you would also enjoy these battles too. This phase is great for both Spartans and Elites.
Third Phase
This is another phase that runs smoothly and provides a challenge to both sides. It is also exactly what I expect from Invasion. It has vehicular combat everywhere and some spots of man to man fights. Trying to get the core out of it’s initial spawn is very challenging, and the room has some intense fights. Once the elites get the core out of the building, they have to watch out for warthogs and scorpions, as well as the spartan laser and sniper that spawn in the core room. This run to the drop zone has very little cover, and usually requires 3 elites to run with a dropshield and surround the core runner. This phase is an absolute blast, and is the highlight of the match.
Now let’s move onto big team battle. This map, even though it is great on Invasion, is an absolute wreck on big team. You have 1/2 the map not even in use. There isn’t even anything to do there. It is so bland and blank, that no one goes over there the entire match. This surprises me, as I found a lot of Halo players will go to these places to flank the enemy in Halo 3. It has no incentive in Halo: Reach though. I find this map to be horribly balanced in slayer matches, and it isn’t much better in objective games. I tried to think of something positive to say about this map when used in big team, but there is nothing to say. I would really like some incentive to going over to the other half of the map, and a lot of balancing is needed.
> Now let’s move onto big team battle. This map, even though it is great on Invasion, is an absolute wreck on big team. You have 1/2 the map not even in use. There isn’t even anything to do there. It is so bland and blank, that no one goes over there the entire match. This surprises me, as I found a lot of Halo players will go to these places to flank the enemy in Halo 3. It has no incentive in Halo: Reach though. I find this map to be horribly balanced in slayer matches, and it isn’t much better in objective games. I tried to think of something positive to say about this map when used in big team, but there is nothing to say. I would really like some incentive to going over to the other half of the map, and a lot of balancing is needed.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe if barricades or barriers were put in place in the middle of the map so there could be a variant that only uses the normally unused portion of the map for non invasion games? I would love to see something like that. Because of the smaller space vehicular combat would have to be more restrictive I think. Ideas?
This map should only play 1 sided game types
NO slayer on 1 sided maps