I recently got into a discussion with my friend about halo. This friend is not a Halo player, basically the most casual gamer in general. He has played fortnite when it was new, warzone, and rocket league. I have gotten him to play halo 5 and MCC (multiplayer only for both). So we were discussing gameplay from various games that we have both played like call of duty (multiple titles), battlefield, rainbow six siege, and halo.
Now, we eventually came to a point where campers were brought up. Camping is by far the most hated playstyle in a shooter. It started with COD (no surprises) but made it’s away around. I said I have always preferred halo due to a focus on map knowledge and precision aim rather than being a twitch shooter like cod. I said this means camping is no issue because the better player will win.
Now the title of my post comes into play. He talked about how in halo, people camp around power weapons or areas hard to reach that have obvious advantages. I tried to explain that there is map control in halo which is different. He claims it’s the same.
Here is an example. The highground on lockout. The sniper nest and area across are very strong areas to hold. It makes it very hard for anyone to attack you and it’s easy to pick people off who are below. Now obviously you are not sitting in a corner like in cod but you don’t leave that area unless you actually must. To him, this is camping.
Now I don’t know what to think and in some ways he is right. I think it really depends on the map. Some maps like lockout may seem a bit more like camping while map control on Zanzibar is far less so. I think the key difference is there is a reason to fight for the spot, whether it’s for a weapon or gameplay advantage. I think the problem comes from maps that make it too hard to regain those areas when losing it initially.
What do you guys think is the best way to describe the difference between camping and map control?
Edit 1: I see people referring to cod camping being in a corner. I should have elaborated more. A person playing COD who is roaming inside a small building, and picking off people who enter and shooting out the window is still a camper. This can be applied to other shooters as well. Camping does not have to be sitting in a corner.
I think it’s pretty simple. Camping is hiding in one spot waiting for kills to come to you while map control is patrolling a location and trying to find kills while not allowing players to spawn near you and prevent them from getting whatever power item is in that part of the map.
Camping is deliberately remaining in one place, often in a corner, for the sole purpose of getting cheap kills. Map Control, however, is about aggressively vying for advantageous positions (i.e. sniper nests, power weapons spawns) on the map for control over the battlefield.
The difference? One is done to give your team an edge over your opponents, while the other is just intolerable -Yoink-.
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> I think it’s pretty simple. Camping is hiding in one spot waiting for kills to come to you while map control is patrolling a location and trying to find kills while not allowing players to spawn near you and prevent them from getting whatever power item is in that part of the map.
But camping doesn’t have to be sitting in a corner. A person who sits in a upstairs room and shoots someone from a window is a camper. I don’t think patrolling matters as long as your in the same place. Being in the same place implies camping. Only difference is halo has power weapons. At the same time, “patrolling” a small area such as those on lockdown make it more like camping. To add to this, it completely discourages map traversal which is the opposite of camping.
> 2535472923259036;3:
> The difference? One is done to give your team an edge over your opponents, while the other is just intolerable -Yoink-.
Camping can give your team an advantage. It’s not aggressive but if you end up with a positive k/d then you will benefit your team. Not dieing trying to gain control of power areas while getting random kills helps the team.
Camping and map control are admittedly very similar, except one is far more rewarding than the other. Camping is a very reactive (and poor) strategy, where as map control is a proactive strategy and often times the decider of matches. In your example of controlling top BR tower, you can survey a huge chunk of the map. You can put pressure on sniper tower, top lift, top mid, and even elbow depending on the version you are playing on. You don’t go to the top of BR to wait for other players to approach top BR, you go to top BR to prevent other players from crossing key areas of the map.
Map control implies you are the player looking for an encounter vs camping implies you are waiting for the encounter to come to you. A lot of times simple camping can be countered with grenades, but map control requires a lot more strategy to push against. To put it simply, map control does as its name implies controls the map, whether it be from a single location or multiple locations. Camping at best denies access to a small portion of the map, but doesn’t really impact other areas outside of the immediate location.
If you didn’t deal with campers in Halo 2 then you didn’t play Halo 2 online. Camping didn’t start with COD, that much is clear. It didn’t start with either, but considering we’re talking about Xbox Live it was definitely an issue in Halo first (because Halo came out first).
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> Map control implies you are the player looking for an encounter vs camping implies you are waiting for the encounter to come to you. A lot of times simple camping can be countered with grenades, but map control requires a lot more strategy to push against.
You said you are looking for the encounter and mentioned all the visible areas from sniper tower. Are you actually looking for an encounter or just. Waiting for someone to cross your field of view. If they other team decided not to push for that position, will you be inclined to move down and risk losing it?
A camper can control a room in any shooter, even cod. Having a window as a view point is enough to be “looking for kills” while still camping a room. Point is northern is leaving their spot.
Camping as how you may be referring to it the way you see it in other titles like Counter Strike, Battlefield, CoD, etc in Halo doesn’t exist because of the fight dynamics and mainly cause of the radar, it is as you describe very possible to ¨defend¨ certain key points and strong positions but HALO provides with more than enough tools to flush said places this ultimately falls in the category of map control.
On another the note about something else you mentioned about the camping behavior being hated ill just comment that anyone who is part of said community of ¨camper haters¨ obviously haven’t played a classic battleroyale like PUBG or any kind of tactical shooter whatsoever the reasons i believe being obvious enough.
> 2535406972669048;9:
> Camping as how you may be referring to it the way you see it in other titles like Counter Strike, Battlefield, CoD, etc in Halo doesn’t exist because of the fight dynamics and mainly cause of the radar, it is as you describe very possible to ¨defend¨ certain key points and strong positions but HALO provides with more than enough tools to flush said places this ultimately falls in the category of map control.
> On another the note about something else you mentioned about the camping behavior being hated ill just comment that anyone who is part of said community of ¨camper haters¨ obviously haven’t played a classic battleroyale like PUBG or any kind of tactical shooter whatsoever the reasons i believe being obvious enough.
I agree with much of what you said. Battle royales encourage camping because you have 1 life but ultimately the storm or whatever that game has will eventually make you move. Battle Royale is not relevant for this in my opinion.
I think the main problem is what is seen as camping is seen differently by everyone. Some see it as literally sitting in a corner. Others see it as someone who sits in one spot.
Traditional corner camping can almost always get you the first shot in halo due to the radar. This does not gaurantee a win in the gunfight. However, in ranked, skill levels tend to be similar and a reversal becomes exceedingly hard.
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> > 2717573882290912;6:
> > Map control implies you are the player looking for an encounter vs camping implies you are waiting for the encounter to come to you. A lot of times simple camping can be countered with grenades, but map control requires a lot more strategy to push against.
>
> You said you are looking for the encounter and mentioned all the visible areas from sniper tower. Are you actually looking for an encounter or just. Waiting for someone to cross your field of view. If they other team decided not to push for that position, will you be inclined to move down and risk losing it?
>
> A camper can control a room in any shooter, even cod. Having a window as a view point is enough to be “looking for kills” while still camping a room. Point is northern is leaving their spot.
In both cases of camping and map control waiting is going to be an element. If you are a competent enough player, it isn’t so much waiting for someone to enter the line of sight, but predicting where they will approach or spawn which is something that only map control can offer.
To refer to your example, if no one is crossing the open areas visible from top BR you can probably assume that they are pushing through bottom mid. Moving from top BR to stairs or library is a much better position to pepper players as they try to climb up.
The key difference is how much control you exert over the rest of the map. Camping is reactive because you have to wait for a bite and the impact you have on where players will push is minimal. Map control grants you a lot more information than just red dots on the radar, you can see where players are, and where they aren’t. Sometimes map design sucks, and it’s super punishing to even try to contest map control and can definitely come off cheap, but the guy standing on top of Br will do better than the guy sitting in bottom mid with a shotgun.
> 2717573882290912;6:
> Camping and map control are admittedly very similar, except one is far more rewarding than the other. Camping is a very reactive (and poor) strategy, where as map control is a proactive strategy and often times the decider of matches. In your example of controlling top BR tower, you can survey a huge chunk of the map. You can put pressure on sniper tower, top lift, top mid, and even elbow depending on the version you are playing on. You don’t go to the top of BR to wait for other players to approach top BR, you go to top BR to prevent other players from crossing key areas of the map.
>
> Map control implies you are the player looking for an encounter vs camping implies you are waiting for the encounter to come to you. A lot of times simple camping can be countered with grenades, but map control requires a lot more strategy to push against.
Pretty much this.
Obviously the two play styles are someone similar, but Map Control would be moving around, making sure enemies aren’t coming up the stairs, running toward you across the map, etc. Camping would be to hide in the alcoves by the stairs and wait for someone to come so you could assassinate or shotgun them.
> 2533274820483063;1:
> I recently got into a discussion with my friend about halo. This friend is not a Halo player, basically the most casual gamer in general. He has played fortnite when it was new, warzone, and rocket league. I have gotten him to play halo 5 and MCC (multiplayer only for both). So we were discussing gameplay from various games that we have both played like call of duty (multiple titles), battlefield, rainbow six siege, and halo.
>
> Now, we eventually came to a point where campers were brought up. Camping is by far the most hated playstyle in a shooter. It started with COD (no surprises) but made it’s away around. I said I have always preferred halo due to a focus on map knowledge and precision aim rather than being a twitch shooter like cod. I said this means camping is no issue because the better player will win.
>
> Now the title of my post comes into play. He talked about how in halo, people camp around power weapons or areas hard to reach that have obvious advantages. I tried to explain that there is map control in halo which is different. He claims it’s the same.
>
> Here is an example. The highground on lockout. The sniper nest and area across are very strong areas to hold. It makes it very hard for anyone to attack you and it’s easy to pick people off who are below. Now obviously you are not sitting in a corner like in cod but you don’t leave that area unless you actually must. To him, this is camping.
>
> Now I don’t know what to think and in some ways he is right. I think it really depends on the map. Some maps like lockout may seem a bit more like camping while map control on Zanzibar is far less so. I think the key difference is there is a reason to fight for the spot, whether it’s for a weapon or gameplay advantage. I think the problem comes from maps that make it too hard to regain those areas when losing it initially.
>
> What do you guys think is the best way to describe the difference between camping and map control?
Map control is when your team is set up on positions to control the spawns/ensure you get power ups and weapons when they arise. Not only do you hold the advantageous positioning, it also ensures usually more team shot angles, very predictable spawns for the enemy, and usually a spawn trap.
Camping Is very different because you can just hide by any door way, tight corner, etc etc. It all depends how you play though. You aren’t meant to just run around like a chicken with your head cut off the entire match. Is that what how your friend thinks games should go or what?
Camping is narrowly focused (“the moment someone comes through this door I’m gong to totally pawn this noob”). Camping means you are closing off lines of site so you can only be engaged from very limited angles.
Map control is broadly focused. Limiting spawn locations, gathering “Intel” and team shooting. Good map design should make it hard to camp in power positions, obviously this doesn’t always happen. Power positions are generally very exposed by their nature of being able too see so much of the map.
> 2533274866989456;14:
> Camping is narrowly focused (“the moment someone comes through this door I’m gong to totally pawn this noob”). Camping means you are closing off lines of site so you can only be engaged from very limited angles.
> Map control is broadly focused. Limiting spawn locations, gathering “Intel” and team shooting. Good map design should make it hard to camp in power positions, obviously this doesn’t always happen. Power positions are generally very exposed by their nature of being able too see so much of the map.
As you said, good map design should have a bigger difference between map control and camping. However, many of the loved maps in the halo community such as lockdown, Ascension, and gaurdian make it way to easy to “control” power areas.
> 2535406972669048;9:
> Camping as how you may be referring to it the way you see it in other titles like Counter Strike, Battlefield, CoD, etc in Halo doesn’t exist because of the fight dynamics and mainly cause of the radar, it is as you describe very possible to ¨defend¨ certain key points and strong positions but HALO provides with more than enough tools to flush said places this ultimately falls in the category of map control.
Hiding in a random corner is not “map control.” And I would go further to say this game and its fanbase defends encourages camping more than any other playerbase I’ve seen. Just look at motion sensor. It actively punishes you for moving at a relevant speed. Then look at the grenade hitmarker arguments and why people were against them, because they didn’t want campers to be flushed out and found out. Grenade hitmarkers disproportionately negatively affect campers more than moving players but the majority of the community was against them.
> 2535406972669048;9:
> On another the note about something else you mentioned about the camping behavior being hated ill just comment that anyone who is part of said community of ¨camper haters¨ obviously haven’t played a classic battleroyale like PUBG or any kind of tactical shooter whatsoever the reasons i believe being obvious enough.
That’s ridiculous. Not everyone who plays BRs camps. People rage about campers just as much as in BRs as any other game. More than the Halo playerbase, clearly.
> 2533274866989456;14:
> Camping is narrowly focused (“the moment someone comes through this door I’m gong to totally pawn this noob”). Camping means you are closing off lines of site so you can only be engaged from very limited angles.
> Map control is broadly focused. Limiting spawn locations, gathering “Intel” and team shooting. Good map design should make it hard to camp in power positions, obviously this doesn’t always happen. Power positions are generally very exposed by their nature of being able too see so much of the map.
Spot on. There’s a difference between hiding in a corner or alley that can only be attacked from a single angle and standing in the open playing king of the hill on a power weapon. If you’re on the top of the hill on Valhalla with a spartan laser, that’s not camping. Hiding in a base with a shotgun is camping.
> 2533274842046585;13:
> > 2533274820483063;1:
> > I recently got into a discussion with my friend about halo. This friend is not a Halo player, basically the most casual gamer in general. He has played fortnite when it was new, warzone, and rocket league. I have gotten him to play halo 5 and MCC (multiplayer only for both). So we were discussing gameplay from various games that we have both played like call of duty (multiple titles), battlefield, rainbow six siege, and halo.
> >
> > Now, we eventually came to a point where campers were brought up. Camping is by far the most hated playstyle in a shooter. It started with COD (no surprises) but made it’s away around. I said I have always preferred halo due to a focus on map knowledge and precision aim rather than being a twitch shooter like cod. I said this means camping is no issue because the better player will win.
> >
> > Now the title of my post comes into play. He talked about how in halo, people camp around power weapons or areas hard to reach that have obvious advantages. I tried to explain that there is map control in halo which is different. He claims it’s the same.
> >
> > Here is an example. The highground on lockout. The sniper nest and area across are very strong areas to hold. It makes it very hard for anyone to attack you and it’s easy to pick people off who are below. Now obviously you are not sitting in a corner like in cod but you don’t leave that area unless you actually must. To him, this is camping.
> >
> > Now I don’t know what to think and in some ways he is right. I think it really depends on the map. Some maps like lockout may seem a bit more like camping while map control on Zanzibar is far less so. I think the key difference is there is a reason to fight for the spot, whether it’s for a weapon or gameplay advantage. I think the problem comes from maps that make it too hard to regain those areas when losing it initially.
> >
> > What do you guys think is the best way to describe the difference between camping and map control?
>
> Map control is when your team is set up on positions to control the spawns/ensure you get power ups and weapons when they arise. Not only do you hold the advantageous positioning, it also ensures usually more team shot angles, very predictable spawns for the enemy, and usually a spawn trap.
>
> Camping Is very different because you can just hide by any door way, tight corner, etc etc. It all depends how you play though. You aren’t meant to just run around like a chicken with your head cut off the entire match. Is that what how your friend thinks games should go or what?
My friend does not think you should run around like a headless chicken, but he doesn’t think it should be easy to have map control. It differs from map to map but some are really easy once you get to power spots.
Also, camping does not have to be sitting in a corner. You can camp with minimal movement. Plus there is always camping in map control. In halo specially, once you see someone on radar approaching, it’s easy to wait around a corner and back smack. While you are not just going to sit there and wait for the next guy. You will still be in the same area looking to get people from afar. Next time someone starts getting close, camper stratigies are used again.
I look at camping as controlling a room or a small area with little movement. Bear in mind though I don’t see camping as an issue like others do, if you dislike the camper, you got to remove them from the spot🤷♀️ The camper always has the advantage because they already hold an angle on you but it doesn’t mean you can’t win the duel against them.
I tend to camp myself, be it rainbow 6 (a game that’s built off the emphasis of camping as that’s how you win as a defender), I’ve camped plenty in halo sitting on one spot overlooking other parts of the map.
I will say it comes down to how you want to interpret it, some think true camping is sitting around in corners, others like me look at it as controlling a specific part of a map and not moving outside of that area. Regardless of definition though, camping happens, and if people want it stopped, kill the camper👍 Then keep them away from the spot.
I look at camping as not a bad thing in my own interpretation, I see it more as a defensive way to play without me just running circles around a map chasing kills when instead I can hold the angles on approaching players and get the first shot typically. Higher ground areas are the best to control as well because even though I’m sitting on one small section of the map, I can still effectively shoot at other sections and even communicate the stuff I see if I play in a group.
In short I actually agree with your friend, but I will say I don’t believe in this view that camping is “bad” or a “cheap way to play” as others will make it out to be. I also look at map control as camping anyways, I consider them one in the same, you’re holding a specific area of the map in general.
> 2533274820483063;17:
> > 2533274842046585;13:
> > > 2533274820483063;1:
> > > I recently got into a discussion with my friend about halo. This friend is not a Halo player, basically the most casual gamer in general. He has played fortnite when it was new, warzone, and rocket league. I have gotten him to play halo 5 and MCC (multiplayer only for both). So we were discussing gameplay from various games that we have both played like call of duty (multiple titles), battlefield, rainbow six siege, and halo.
> > >
> > > Now, we eventually came to a point where campers were brought up. Camping is by far the most hated playstyle in a shooter. It started with COD (no surprises) but made it’s away around. I said I have always preferred halo due to a focus on map knowledge and precision aim rather than being a twitch shooter like cod. I said this means camping is no issue because the better player will win.
> > >
> > > Now the title of my post comes into play. He talked about how in halo, people camp around power weapons or areas hard to reach that have obvious advantages. I tried to explain that there is map control in halo which is different. He claims it’s the same.
> > >
> > > Here is an example. The highground on lockout. The sniper nest and area across are very strong areas to hold. It makes it very hard for anyone to attack you and it’s easy to pick people off who are below. Now obviously you are not sitting in a corner like in cod but you don’t leave that area unless you actually must. To him, this is camping.
> > >
> > > Now I don’t know what to think and in some ways he is right. I think it really depends on the map. Some maps like lockout may seem a bit more like camping while map control on Zanzibar is far less so. I think the key difference is there is a reason to fight for the spot, whether it’s for a weapon or gameplay advantage. I think the problem comes from maps that make it too hard to regain those areas when losing it initially.
> > >
> > > What do you guys think is the best way to describe the difference between camping and map control?
> >
> > Map control is when your team is set up on positions to control the spawns/ensure you get power ups and weapons when they arise. Not only do you hold the advantageous positioning, it also ensures usually more team shot angles, very predictable spawns for the enemy, and usually a spawn trap.
> >
> > Camping Is very different because you can just hide by any door way, tight corner, etc etc. It all depends how you play though. You aren’t meant to just run around like a chicken with your head cut off the entire match. Is that what how your friend thinks games should go or what?
>
> My friend does not think you should run around like a headless chicken, but he doesn’t think it should be easy to have map control. It differs from map to map but some are really easy once you get to power spots.
>
> Also, camping does not have to be sitting in a corner. You can camp with minimal movement. Plus there is always camping in map control. In halo specially, once you see someone on radar approaching, it’s easy to wait around a corner and back smack. While you are not just going to sit there and wait for the next guy. You will still be in the same area looking to get people from afar. Next time someone starts getting close, camper stratigies are used again.
I don’t really get what you’re saying. So to you, if a team is holding the inside of the map like on the rig in h5…a known set up many players use…are all 4 players camping to you? If you see it that way you’re mistaken. The more you wander around the map the more spawns shift around…this is why players have enemies spawn even behind them at times…all because someone doesn’t know what the heck they’re doing in the game and they’re just mindlessly looking for something to shoot.
Maps play out differently from map to map…and some maps encourage rotations.