Map and Gametype Voting

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So, I haven’t seen this discussed lately: voting. The voting system has been tweaked and changed with every iteration of Halo, and I think that, while we keep getting closer to an ideal system, the voting needs another upgrade.

Halo 3 featured the veto system, and while it wasn’t too bad (in my opinion, of course), it did have flaws, notably a lack of selection. Either you liked what you saw, or vetoed and risked something you may love, or hate. Halo Reach upgraded this with a system that allowed “re-voting” (a terrible decision, I think), but allow more choice. Sadly, people would often vote for favored maps over gametype, leading to its own slew of issues.

Halo 4 was a vast improvement, especially at the start. Playlists featured a single gametype, so you knew what you were getting right away. It allowed only a single vote, and gave you 3 clear opinions. Of course, as playlist began to mix gametypes, problems from Reach began to reappear, notably people voting based on preferred maps rather than gametypes (though this isn’t always the case). It has only gotten worse as, in my experience, it seems gametypes are strictly tied to certain playlist, creating an often boring gaming experience.

What I propose for voting in Halo 5 is a system that has already seen success in at least 1 other game. Provide players with 2 rounds of voting, or rather, two categories to vote in. Give players the option to vote for a game variant, and, quite separately, vote for a map. Naturally, don’t bring back re-voting (again, terrible, terrible idea). I think this would help create a more interesting and varied gaming experience.

So, what does the community think?

2

I like the H4 Voting option, but still think that there should be 5 or even 6 choices.

This would allow greater variety and also allow playlist to be merged.

For Example, if there were 6 options for BTB, you could have the following choices.

  1. Slayer
  2. CTF
  3. Assualt
  4. Heavies
  5. Dominion
  6. Other

This would cover nearly all gametypes for that playlist. I also think that it be great for RANKED playlist, you didn’t see what the other players except those on your team, have voted for.

3

Main Menu > Matchmaking > Select Playlist > Select Preferred Map > Select Preferred Gametype > Start Search

4

I agree with separate voting for maps and gametypes.

Any idea for dealing with situations where the map and/or gametype selection is horrible without having to resort to the random grap bag that was H3’s veto?

I also agree with Ramirez’s preferred search functions for gametypes and maps and suggest that it also be taken a step farther and include a “match only to” option.

5

One of my major issues with Halo’s matchmaking is its just so archaic. I don’t enjoy calling Halo outdated, but I will when its deserved such as in this area.

Load up any PC shooter. You get a list where you can find exactly what you want to play. If I want to play Snipers on Blood Gulch then bam, I just scroll and find a server running those settings. Many also have automated search functions similar to what I suggested above.

Perhaps a browser is taking it too far, but I still feel Halo needs massive reworks in regards to matchmaking. It’s 2014, there’s just no excuse.

> Any idea for dealing with situations where the map and/or gametype selection is horrible without having to resort to the random grap bag that was H3’s veto?

We could alleviate this with a very small alteration to Halo 4’s current system. Instead of one voting session there’s two sessions. First you vote for one of three gametype, then you vote for one of three maps.

6

I couldn’t agree more on re-voting, it was terrible and awful. As others have said there should be a preferred gametype and map choosing before going into matchmaking. It could even simply be in the matchmaking options. Although the only issue I see with that is sometimes there are sub-gametypes. For example if you want to play SWAT, but which one? Slayer? CTF? Oddball?

7

> One of my major issues with Halo’s matchmaking is its just so archaic. I don’t enjoy calling Halo outdated, but I will when its deserved such as in this area.
>
> Load up any PC shooter. You get a list where you can find exactly what you want to play. If I want to play Snipers on Blood Gulch then bam, I just scroll and find a server running those settings. Many also have automated search functions similar to what I suggested above.
>
> Perhaps a browser is taking it too far, but I still feel Halo needs massive reworks in regards to matchmaking. It’s 2014, there’s just no excuse.

I don’t see accurately skilled match matching coming out of this.

If players are allowed to create their own gametypes then I think that the community would end up sub dividing itself so much that none of the playlists offered would have enough players to maintain a decent enough population for accurate matchmaking based on skill.

> We could alleviate this with a very small alteration to Halo 4’s current system. Instead of one voting session there’s two sessions. First you vote for one of three gametype, then you vote for one of three maps.

?

That’s what the OP was talking about, and that I agreed with.

But what do we do if the three maps offered are bad? Or the three gametypes are bad? Or both? If we default to H3’s method, we just roll the dice if we get a selection that’s better.

8

I like veto the best. It helps take away choice in favour of variety. Halo 3’s DLC integration helped, too. :stuck_out_tongue:

9

less is more…

10

A while ago, I put forward a hybrid of halo 3 and halo reach/4 whereby you get a choice of three and one veto. Consequentially you put forward two maps/gametypes you would like to play, also with the voting cycle changing, people won’t be over-saturated with the same ‘popular’ maps, eg. infection-pinnacle, dominion-exile.

It solves a lot of problems. Do say if you think of a flaw.

11

I’m good either way, but I did like the veto system because it forced people to play every mode and become a well-rounded player.
This only works, however, if every option is actually fun.
A lot of people would probably find out that they enjoy certain selections more than they would’ve thought thanks to this type of system.

12

I liked this idea:

> Now let’s say you want to play just social Slayer. Click on Slayer and the search begins. But let’s say you just want to play 4v4 social Slayer. In that case, you highlight Slayer, press “Y” (or some other button of choice), and you see the following:
>
> Select gametypes to include in search:
> 4v4 Slayer
> 8v8 Slayer
>
> Now you can deselect 8v8. If you wish to save the search criteria because you intend to play 4v4 for awhile, press “Y” again. Criteria save; 4v4 search begins. If you wish this to be for just this search without saving, press “B”. Criteria do not save; 4v4 search begins.
>
> For a second, more complex example, let’s say you don’t care if you play KoTH or CTF - but you don’t want to play Extraction, Slayer, or Oddball. Highlight 4v4 Slayer & Objectives, press “Y”, and set up:
>
> Select gametypes to include in search:
> [] Slayer
> [X] CTF
> [] Extraction
> King of the Hill
> [_] Team Oddball
>
> Save (or not save) and search.
> …
> The advantage of this type of matching - and it is a massive advantage - is that it increases the effective size of the player pool for matching. Within a top-level list, everyone who has a particular gametype selected for search is a match option.
> …
> Many people who play objectives really don’t care if it’s CTF or Extraction (they may have a slight preference, but would be happy with either). But if the two gametypes are split, those slight preferences become absolute vetoes:
>
> Slayer List: 14,000
> CTF List: 5,000
> Extraction List: 1,000
> KoTH List: 1,500
> Oddball List: 500
>
> Total 4v4 Population: 22,000
>
> This snowballs. Because people just want to play an objective, they examine the list populations, know that they’ll get faster matches and better games in CTF. So even though they wouldn’t mind Extraction, the lower population dissuades them from visiting the list at all . . . leading to an even lower population . . . and so forth. However, with the multidimensional matching, you end up with the following numbers of people who have included those gametypes in their searches:
>
> 4v4 Slayer & Objectives
> Slayer: 17,500
> CTF: 12,500
> Extraction: 5,500
> KoTH: 8,000
> Oddball: 3,500
>
> While no gametype can exceed the total population of 22,000, each gametype within a list can have up to 22,000 people available for matching.

13

> One of my major issues with Halo’s matchmaking is its just so archaic. I don’t enjoy calling Halo outdated, but I will when its deserved such as in this area.
>
> Load up any PC shooter. You get a list where you can find exactly what you want to play. If I want to play Snipers on Blood Gulch then bam, I just scroll and find a server running those settings. Many also have automated search functions similar to what I suggested above.
>
> Perhaps a browser is taking it too far, but I still feel Halo needs massive reworks in regards to matchmaking. It’s 2014, there’s just no excuse.

I believe this is the way MS’s Smart Match is supposed to work. There’s not a whole lot of information available, but what I’ve seen sounds a lot like this.

> I don’t see accurately skilled match matching coming out of this.
>
> If players are allowed to create their own gametypes then I think that the community would end up sub dividing itself so much that none of the playlists offered would have enough players to maintain a decent enough population for accurate matchmaking based on skill.

It might work if the number of playlists is small.

14

Halo 3 veto system was the best in my opinion, I think they should reuse it.

15

I liked the veto system in Halo 3. I liked that there were three choices to choose from in Halo 4. I didn’t like that you couldn’t change your vote in Halo 4.

So saying, what I would like to see is:

  1. The veto system returned from Halo 3
  2. Three choices shown at a time
  3. The option to change your vote if you make a mistake
16

That sounds pretty good.

17

> I liked the veto system in Halo 3. I liked that there were three choices to choose from in Halo 4. I didn’t like that you couldn’t change your vote in Halo 4.
>
> So saying, what I would like to see is:
> 1. The veto system returned from Halo 3
> 2. Three choices shown at a time
> 3. The option to change your vote if you make a mistake

Yes, I think being able to change your vote (or veto) is important and should definitely be included.

18

> Main Menu > Matchmaking > Select Playlist > Select Preferred Map > Select Preferred Gametype > Start Search

This entirely. There is no reason for this to not happen. I believe one of the main reasons why people quit playing halo 4, other than the issues it has regarding loadouts and lack of social/rated playlists, was this issue right here.

Per example, I want to play regular slayer not BR/DMR mambojambo, I don’t get the chance to play it, I try again, its voted again. I give up, change game and play something else cause I don’t want to waste my time with something I really don’t want to play.

Even custom games should have a browser for people to able to create custom games and play with others around the world, being private or not would be a choice of the room’s owner.

I believe this would up the population by a fair amount and make them stay for awhile.

If anything, only veto on maps. Not on subgametypes.

19

> > Main Menu > Matchmaking > Select Playlist > Select Preferred Map > Select Preferred Gametype > Start Search
>
> This entirely. There is no reason for this to not happen. I believe one of the main reasons why people quit playing halo 4, other than the issues it has regarding loadouts and lack of social/rated playlists, was this issue right here.
>
> Per example, I want to play regular slayer not BR/DMR mambojambo, I don’t get the chance to play it, I try again, its voted again. I give up, change game and play something else cause I don’t want to waste my time with something I really don’t want to play.
>
> Even custom games should have a browser for people to able to create custom games and play with others around the world, being private or not would be a choice of the room’s owner.
>
> I believe this would up the population by a fair amount and make them stay for awhile.
>
> If anything, only veto on maps. Not on subgametypes.

That sounds like a watered-down version of server browser. If we are going to choose which game we play, then we should just go all out for a server browser - which I think that we should, but for casual/social and custom playlists - not for competitive.

Competitive should have a voting (or vetoing) system to make it a bit more unpredictable making any competitions more fair.

I agree that we shouldn’t be able to vote (or veto) a gametype as well, it should just be the map - or more accurately: the map and the gametype at the same time.

20

At this point, I’ve arrived to the conclusion that the best system would be no voting at all. If you don’t like a map or a gametype, you either deal with it or you quit.

The problem I have with getting to choose what you want to play is that people tend to gravitate towards what they are familiar with and what they have had positive experiences with. Likewise, they tend to avoid new things and things they have had negative experiences with.

The experience you have on a map has more effect on whether you like the map or not than the actual quality of the map. If your first game on a map was a Perfection, you’re more inclined to believe the map is good. On the other hand, if you totally screwed up your first game, you are left with a sour taste in your mouth and conclude the map is bad. It’s a defense mechanism, people tend to look for external reasons for their failures.

Of course when it comes to map voting, this obviously doesn’t apply because some maps are vastly more popular than others because not everyone can by chance end up liking the same set of maps. Although, it still explains why remakes might gain popularity over original maps (e.g. Hemorrhage).

The problem with map voting is that the player base ends up playing the same maps over and over again. And while they think the situation is better because they don’t have to play on the “bad” maps, it isn’t. Once the player gets on the map, their enjoyment is more affected by how the game goes rather than the map selection. That is to say, if the match goes well, the player is very likely to forget their dislike towards the map.

My proposition is that allowing players choose what they want to play is not better than giving them no choice at all. Playing the “worse” maps is not as bad of an experience as people think. On the other hand, the more the same maps get played, the faster the player gets bored of the game. Hence it would be best if players would be exposed to all maps equally with no choice other than what playlist they want to play.

However, this isn’t something I would apply to gametype selection. The difference between gametypes has a more drastic effect than the differences between maps. Hence different playlists for different sets of gametypes would still have to exist.