Which I believe should have little bearing to how ranked is played. HCS shouldn’t dictate ranked.
The positioning.
Powerweapons normally spawn in the middle of the map in an open spot, so you need to either push back the enemy or kill some to be able to grab it (otherwise it would just be selfdestruction and will likely hand it to the enemy team).
But not on Recharge, there it is in a side-room. Not only that, it is also unfairly situated. You can only get it from 2 ways: either via Hydro or through the tunnel. Both are closer to Long Hall then to Elevator (the two load in spawns).
On top of that: the team that spawns at Elevator cannot reach the tunnel safely, because they will have to go through the Pit to get there and therefore be out in the open. The team that spawns at Long Hall can jump directly to the tunnel from Plat. This creates a situation where the team that spawns at Long Hall just have to put 1 person at Plat to block anyone coming from Pit, 1 person at Hydro to block anyone coming from Control, 1 person can serve as back up for either those (since those are realy close, they can imidiately shift to those two positions) and the last person then can safely grab the sword.
This makes the Sword’s position in Recharge very unbalanced, since it’s basicly a free pick-up for any Long Hall team with good teamwork (wich they have in the pro scene).
On top of that, the most effective counter to the sword (the repulsor) also spawns in the tunnel, so that too would already be a easy pick-up for the Long Hall-team.
1 Like
I really dislike the Sword and Hammer when playing Oddball on Recharge. For slayer I think it’s good.
@Super87Ghost Thanks for the detailed run down of the issues in ranked. I always knew it was an easier pickup from the ‘long hallway’. Seems like the right fix is to move the long hallway spawn point but that would also screw with the Oddball location and probably require a rework.
I’m interested to see what they put in. They could cough out rockets, a hammer is unbalanced probably but an option, they could legitimately give you a bulldog and that is worth jumping out for to be honest, a stalker rifle would be absolutely savage as a pickup in that map.
There’s a lot of outside-the-box options. But rockets are my immediate knee-jerk, “Yeah put that in instead.” choice.
I think you’re right that rockets could actually work well on Recharge. Not nearly as useful for camping while protecting the Oddball and might even lead to different areas of the map being used.
It wouldn’t change the issue of easier access for one team though.
I don’t know if the Stalker adds much to a map with Commando and BR already. The Bulldog is strongest in the same situations as the sword so could work okay if they are just looking for a small adjustment.
The people who don’t understand why these weapons are getting “vaulted” and reworked are people who have no business telling anyone how ranked and HCS should work.
A passive lock on weapon like the Pulse Carbine is doomed to either be OP or worthless. If you want it to have a place it needs a rework. Preferably by making it player guided as opposed to being a lock on.
The Mangler was always going to be a problem due to its design process beginning and ending at “3 shot kewl. CE amirite?” It needs a rework and by extension so would the Sidekick because they fill virtually the same role.
The Sword is also a problem due the combination of the sprint/slide nightmare currently plaguing mainstream shooters and the default ranked/HCS starting weapon having a molasses slow TTK. On top of that the sword is always going to be problematic in a competitive environment because whether you land a hit or not is depending on lunge and other game values as opposed to requiring any actual skill from the player. There is a reason swords don’t show up/get removed when players competitive community has some control over settings.
Aside from a competitive environment the sword desperately needs some crowd control counter option be it something like the CE plasma rifle stun or Reach concussion rifle stagger. Especially when sprint is involved with no OHK shotgun to reign it in.
So they are just annoying/unfun to play against in ranked play.
Can we just take them out of competitive play then and leave them for social without changing how they function then? Sounds like no matter what they do to them the competitive format will never be satisfied unless they’re neutered into the ground anyway. It’ll save a lot of trouble and time for the Dev’s trying to change them to appease everyone doing it this way too.
I for one couldn’t care how HCS works. They can have whatever they want. I don’t believe It should dictate ranked.
You’ve said that before, nobody cares.
Both the Carbine and Plasma Pistol should always have been player guided (possibly only when zoomed or just have it as a mode toggle). The fact that the buffs have so far focussed on improving the tracking until it turns out to be too effective was a bit predictable.
Oh it’s you!
You clearly don’t…oops done this already. 
2 Likes
Problems with these weapons don’t go away just because certain types of social players don’t have any standards.
We don’t have to choose between mechanically engaging weapons and “fun.” The whole sandbox is flawed in a variety of ways that should be fixed in all scenarios, not just ranked.
The reason that the Pulse Carbine and Mangler are getting vaulted for potential reworks rather than just being “neutered” we are clearly passed the point these can be fixed with value tweaks.
Casuals get mad when competitive players highlight issues while offering no solutions other than “well I don’t care why do you?”
Well then I hope they make changes that people on social can agree with. Because all they’re going to see is that the weapon they liked using, was now told that it was bad and they’re going to have to relearn how to now use a potentially completely different weapon all over again because others told them that it was bad.
Mind you, when you say certain types of social players, you may as well just say just about the vast majority of social players, who are still significantly more then the entirety of the competitive scene probably 20x over lol. Maybe they can just explain it to people that won’t understand why a gun they enjoyed using was changed for more then just “reasons”. This could actually push people away who were interested in a more professional interest in this game if they don’t explain it well to them first as to why weapon they may have enjoyed were changed. I’ve seen this scenario a few times already during my career in Team Fortress 2 because Valve started catering to competitive TF on how they should handle “problematic weapons”.
But it is 343i’s game to do as they choose, and I do understand that competitive players generally know the ins and outs of weapons ( although you do still have to watch out for bias on occasions, this is why you get opinions from more then just one person ). So I guess time will tell in the long run how this turns out.
On Recharge, they can just put the sword next to where the ball spawns in Oddball. Thats about as ‘middle of the map’ it gets similar to how camo is in the pit.
That would be fine for Slayer but would cause issues for Oddball I think. Plus it would be a shame to not use the dedicated platform. I really like the risk/reward element of having the power weapon so exposed. It’s a unique element to that map and that part of the map may not see much traffic without it.
I guess they could put it exactly where the Oddball spawns and only have it spawn in Slayer. I think that would be a great option for balance purposes if they have the ability to remove a weapon spawn based on the specific game mode.
Maybe just have it disabled in Oddball then lol, well, unless they can find a way to include it somewhere else I suppose.
I’m wondering if they put the repulsor up a level (in the centre of the room with ramp/mezzanine) so that the other team can collect it on the way to compete for the sword. That might be enough to make it a fair fight even if the other team can still physically reach the sword first.
“By the Rings! Arbiter, the weapons sandbox, are they–?”
“Murdered…by the pros”
If certain social players refuse to actually engage in any actual critique without it being spoon-fed or accept that what they as individuals want/tolerate is not something that agrees with the wider population(social or ranked) I suggest they get over it. Concern trolling about scaring away the casuals at this juncture is pointless given a far greater number of people have fled the game as is than continue to play casual or not.
And I do mean certain social players because social players are not a monolith Social players being a greater percentage of the population does not mean all of them are inherently anti-competitive or incapable of accepting even significant balance or design changes. I’m a social player, I haven’t meaningfully engaged with ranked modes since Halo 3, but I can still recognize the flaws with the game and agree with certain “competitive” perspectives even if I don’t usually play with those experiences.
A diversity of opinions is important, but those opinions need to be grounded in some level of understanding and just a stubborn refusal to accept suggestions due to the source or inability to understanding why something might be an issue.
God forbid we end up like TF2 though right? What a horrible fate…
This is why we can’t have nice things.