Making Vehicles Relevant

Games Other Halo
1

This is addressing one of REACH’s biggest flaws: Vehicles.

To me, one of the most disappointing aspects of REACH was the redundancy of the vehicles. Everything about them from their absolute weakness to every weapon in the game to their individual “invisible” health bars annoyed me. Not only were they useless on a big battlefield against a small team of organised marksmen, they were also dominated by SURP RISE HARMAR LOCKHERS!

It made them extremely inefficient and it was sad for me to see that, especially in a game franchise that gave you the advantage out in the open field when you were in a vehicle. This is not to mention the complete lack of Valhalla/Sidewinder/Bloodgulch maps in the game, but that is a different story.

Firstly I’d like to state what was wrong with vehicles in Reach:

  1. They were extremely weak, they’d go down against a small organised team of marksmen in a very short amount of time, earning players easy kills or double to triple kills in the case of worthogs.

  2. The vehicles had their own individual health bar, separate from the passengers and drivers of the vehicle; your only indication as to how much your vehicle is suffering is shown through aesthetic cues.

  3. By the time you start thinking of jumping out of the sinking ship that is a reach vehicle, your either too late or too high either suffering fatal damage from the explosion that follows your ejection or plummeting to your death our of a falcon.

In my opinion, Halo 2 and 3 had it perfect. The vehicles weren’t indestructible, but at least you had a sense as to how much damage the vehicle could take. Yes they did have an invisible health bar much like Reach does, but it doesn’t come into play when there a players seated in the vehicle, in fact the vehicle will remain in tact even if it looks like it’s on the brink of falling apart; so long as there is a player in the vehicle alive.

What was right about Halo 2-3’s vehicle system:

  1. Players had a strong sense of the vehicles health, because in essence, your health was the vehicles health; so long as life exists in the vehicle, the vehicle exists to serve life.

  2. The vehicle could still be destroyed; fatal damage inflicted on all passengers in the vehicle was a cause for destruction, either through Spartan Laser, Missle Pod or Rocket launcher.

  3. They were useful and reliable in the heat of the battle; you could stand off a defensive position without worrying about whether or not you are going to die via the silly individual vehicle health meter; watch your shields and your gun b k.

This was the perfect way to give players a sense of how much damage a vehicle can take and it worked flawlessly. I remember many times where my driver would die from a rocket and I would take an amazing amount of damage, but for whatever reason I would survive (maybe the rocket didn’t make direct contact) because the vehicle was depending on my life in order to not be destroyed.

What relevance does all this have to Halo 4?

Well you see, if they use Halo Reach’s vehicle system; 343 is going to be shooting themselves in the foot. Vehicular combat was virtually non existent in Reach and I truly believe that Halo 3’s system is the best to be applied to Halo 4, or at least some system that is akin to that of Halo 3’s.

Hopefully 343 uses this system, I will thank them for noticing something that has gotten relatively no attention despite it being one of the biggest game-breakers in Halo Reach.

Thank you for your time.

2

Banshee dominates in REACH.

Also, so long as they make them a little stronger, I see vehicles taking their own damage as a great thing.

3

> Banshee dominates in REACH.
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> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv4nB78NX2E
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>
> Also, so long as they make them a little stronger, I see vehicles taking their own damage as a great thing.

But it was to the point where they were redundant in Reach, they were barely usable; save the banshee.

The banshee survives in Reach due to it’s mobility, but even then a small team of marksmen could easily take it down if it get’s caught in to much open air. I trust that 343 is going to do a great job of balancing the game, but I think we need some clarification on the vehicle system.

4

I disagree! I found that the vehicles in Halo 3 were a little OP. Halo Reach had it just right accept for one part, your vehicle was not harder to fly and or drive. To me it seemed that in Halo 3 if you were driving a vehicle you were pretty much invincible. The only thing I really found annoying about Reach was that there was a lack of vehicles, I mean what happened to the hornet!!! Also the most pointless thing about the Falcon in Reach is that it can only sit three people. I mean really! Come on! The whole point of that vehicle is to at least fit 5 or 6 people in it. You could in the campaign! You might as well have a Hornet! One of the biggest things I want is access to Pelicans and Phantoms in multiplayer.

5

Yes. Bring back the warthog. But, it is a jeep. It’s a light vehicle. Not to say that it should be taken down in a few shots. I completely agree with the player alive, vehicle alive concept, but I still want it to feel like a light vehicle. I want it to feel like it was in Reach.

6

> I disagree! I found that the vehicles in Halo 3 were a little OP. Halo Reach had it just right accept for one part, your vehicle was not harder to fly and or drive. To me it seemed that in Halo 3 if you were driving a vehicle you were pretty much invincible. The only thing I really found annoying about Reach was that there was a lack of vehicles, I mean what happened to the hornet!!! Also the most pointless thing about the Falcon in Reach is that it can only sit three people. I mean really! Come on! The whole point of that vehicle is to at least fit 5 or 6 people in it. You could in the campaign! You might as well have a Hornet! One of the biggest things I want is access to Pelicans and Phantoms in multiplayer.

I found this to be true; only when the opposing team was better then us. Valhalla was a prime example of this idea. The main concern on that map was neutralising the use of the spartan laser and missile pods in order to gain access to vehicles and dominate the map.

The same worked with Standoff. The teams that were capable of gaining control of power weapons that could neutralise vehicles were able to control the map more efficiently and in my opinion, this made the game far more competitive and relevant to the traditional form of Halo gameplay.

I can see where you are coming from though, but I think long term a mid to large sized map is better off with the Halo 3 vehicle system; not only promoting vehicular warfare but also promoting speed and movement throughout the map.

7

Bloodgulch is in H:R. It’s just that in H:CE there weren’t as many long-ranged “headshot weapons”, and thus, movement weren’t limited the way it is in Hemorrhage. If you want BG back you’re gonna have to kiss weapons like the BR goodbye*(at least as a starting weapon on that map)*.

As for the vehicles I agree. Halo 3 did that right. In H:R we get to rack up kills while we wait for the impending and seemingly pointless death we’ll suffer once our glass-cannons have been pinged enough.

Personally I vote for returning the lighter vehicles “health” and damage output back to the way it was in Halo 3. The tanks however needs to die from long-term pings, because a tank that regenerates health/shields is just too OP.

8

> Bloodgulch is in H:R. It’s just that in H:CE there weren’t as many long-ranged “headshot weapons”, and thus, movement weren’t limited the way it is in Hemorrhage. If you want BG back you’re gonna have to kiss weapons like the BR goodbye*(at least as a starting weapon on that map)*.
>
> As for the vehicles I agree. Halo 3 did that right. In H:R we get to rack up kills while we wait for the impending and seemingly pointless death we’ll suffer once our glass-cannons have been pinged enough.
>
> Personally I vote for returning the lighter vehicles “health” and damage output back to the way it was in Halo 3. The tanks however needs to die from long-term pings, because a tank that regenerates health/shields is just too OP.

This is a perfect example of how the system can be modified for Halo 4. I completely agree with this idea.

On the Bloodgulch topic, it was more of an example of range in a map rather then a reference to a map I wanted back. Personally I think maps created in the light of Valhalla are going to be more successful in todays Halo. Long range weapons worked well in Valhalla because there were many vantage points on the map, but there was an equal amount of cover and space for vehicles to swing behind. The area on the map had many elevated sections of terrain and depressed sections as well, which made it an excellent map to travel around stealth-fully on foot by the flanks.

Many people may disagree and even rage; but personally I think that Valhalla is the best mid sized map in a Halo game ever.

9

Vehicles are one of my favorite things about Halo, I hope they give them much love in Halo 4. But I honestly prefer vehicles to have their own health. It adds more realism and makes you have to be more strategic with them…not just driving around in the open hoping to be Unstoppable. If a team is orchestrated well with taking out a vehicle/driver, then they deserve to get the kill because they earned it. Vehicles can’t be invincible to infantry fire. If you make them stronger by syncing them up with player health, so everyone has a better chance at lasting longer in them, you are just making the skilled drivers near invincible altogether.

Halo 3 vehicles could truly be considered overpowered. You could drive around in a Warthog on Standoff for literally the entire match without being destroyed. I enjoyed this, but it wasn’t as fun when it was done to me, lol. Though in Reach, with vehicles like the Scorpion and Wraith, I have had crazy amounts of kills in matches. But I would say the Revenant is about the most useless vehicle in my opinion (like the H3 Prowler). The mini mortar shots just toss around Warthogs, that’s about the best they can do. Though it could just be my skills with it suck (very likely), but I never feel threatened when an enemy has one either…even on foot.

Also in Reach there have been numerous times I have shot a rocket directly into a Warthog and he kept going. This seems to be the case if the vehicle hasn’t been hurt yet or if you don’t directly hit the driver to take him out. So its not weak, you just have to keep in mind the state of your vehicle and decide if its safe to continue or if you should bail and look for a new one.

To me it seems like it comes down to how good/smart you are with the vehicle in different situations. Experienced drivers should do much better than casual or beginner drivers every time. Reach included.

But hey, if Halo 4 does these “perk” things then maybe there will be one for mechanics or drivers. Maybe you can repair vehicle or the vehicle can be synced with your shield if you have the proper armor. Just a thought.

10

I will say the biggest let down for me in Reach with vehicles is that there is basically only one map that has a warthog for 4v4 slayer that I can think of right now. Tempest. I love using vehicles, but I don’t always want to play BTB. I just want a simple match with just a Warthog on each base and maybe some Mongoose’s.

11

the vehicles in reach were not that bad, the problem was that a DMR did too much damage to a vehicle, also the sniper, but in most cases teams are not organized enough to take a vehicle out real fast. and so what about the invisible health bar, if it is on flames bail out. Or be a man and go down with the ship! Reach did not want to focus too much on vehicles, I am mainly a warthog driver, but I love all vehicles, and as a vehicle connoisseur, it was not that hard to get used to it. However you could be really dominate in previous halo games with a good hog team, in reach it was much harder, so I too would like to have vehicles be stronger against bullets from guns like the BR.
Also on a side note I really like how in HCEA I can see my passenger’s health and would really like to see that in H4

12

@Downserj: What we mean by giving the vehicles “shields” isn’t that they have to copy the shields used in Halo 3. We could easily have health and be just as content, I’m sure. The issue with Halo: Reach’s crappy vehicles is pretty much that they’re unpredictable. They’ll suddenly explode for no apparent reason.

I’m sure we can all agree that the vehicles in Halo 3 where a bit over the top, but they were also predictable. If you were fighting if you could make an educated guess as to when the big “boom” would arrive or when the driver/passengers would keel over and leave the vehicle ripe for your team to take. The actual driver of the vehicle(and the passengers for that matter) would have an exact on when they were in trouble, and when it was time to sign their will. In H:R both parties will have to rely on hunches when it comes to vehicular combat, and you can forget about commandeering the vehicle yourself if you by some sort of miracle manages to kill the driver without “Michael Bay’ing” the entire vehicle.

I would prefer it if Halo 4 used Halo 3’s system with slightly weaker shields. But I wouldn’t nag and complain if they decided to use Halo: Reach’s system either, suffice to say they gave it an actual health-bar and toned down the damage & upped the “health”.

13

TLDR: Reach didn’t restore the full CE experience (regarding the health bar) and corrupted the H2-H3 formula (vehicles dominate and are to be feared), exchanging durability (and other important things) for power (and explosive effects) resulting in a huge imbalance.

Imo, the only thing related to vehicles that was close to CE had to be the Banshee, which was a monster in Halo PC mp.

The Wraith, despite being easily destroyed in CE, is something that should be progressing forward, not backward. The Wraith should have been much better than in H3 but I found it to be near useless and unreliable (and the auto aim was ridiculously huge).

14

> In H:R both parties will have to rely on hunches when it comes to vehicular combat, and you can forget about commandeering the vehicle yourself if you by some sort of miracle manages to kill the driver without “Michael Bay’ing” the entire vehicle.
>
> I would prefer it if Halo 4 used Halo 3’s system with slightly weaker shields. But I wouldn’t nag and complain if they decided to use Halo: Reach’s system either, suffice to say they gave it an actual health-bar and toned down the damage & upped the “health”.

Lol @ Michael Bay reference. But I would agree that if they use the Halo Reach system that the Driver should at least have an actual vehicle health indicator in his HUD. Plus I would agree to make at least the Warthog have more health, or not take as much damage from DMR and Pistol type weapons.

With those changes I would think vehicle play would be a much better experience.

I really just like the idea that if a vehicle is hurt (especially a tank) that whoever else comes along to get in keeps the same health. Same way if someone dies and drops a power weapon, you don’t get the full ammo reset, you take whats left over. Vehicles have infinite ammo, so at least it shouldn’t have rechargeable health also, imo.

15

> Lol @ Michael Bay reference. But I would agree that if they use the Halo Reach system that the Driver should at least have an actual vehicle health indicator in his HUD. Plus I would agree to make at least the Warthog have more health, or not take as much damage from DMR and Pistol type weapons.
>
> With those changes I would think vehicle play would be a much better experience.
>
> I really just like the idea that if a vehicle is hurt (especially a tank) that whoever else comes along to get in keeps the same health. Same way if someone dies and drops a power weapon, you don’t get the full ammo reset, you take whats left over. Vehicles have infinite ammo, so at least it shouldn’t have rechargeable health also, imo.

One could actually just lower the precision weapon damage versus vehicles significantly and add a health-bar. One might even say that if you’re close enough with your Warthog to get sprayed by an Assault Rifle or blasted by a shotgun-monkey you deserve the loss of health. It’d give splatting an extra risk to it as well.

16

I think the problem in Reach was that DMR made warthogs flip SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easily. And sniper destroyed every vehicle like they were made from paper (remove this in Halo 4 343).

In Halo 4 vehicles should have their own health bars (IMO). Also they should be just a little bit stronger but weak parts would still do massive damage.

17

> I think the problem in Reach was that DMR made warthogs flip SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easily. And sniper destroyed every vehicle like they were made from paper (remove this in Halo 4 343).
>
> In Halo 4 vehicles should have their own health bars (IMO). Also they should be just a little bit stronger but weak parts would still do massive damage.

Something like that. I feel that sniping weapons should do next to no damage to vehicles, any kind of precision weapon should be useless, really. Unless of course you were accurate enough to hit a “weak spot”, then you could be rewarded with some juicy damage infliction.

18

I am sure that 343 is going to consider all variations in the vehicle systems in Halo’s history and create a brand new model that has a lot of their own ideas and concepts. Vehicles need to possess that same sense of weight and mobility that the chief does, because obviously they are going to weigh more then the chief.