Making spartans, Spartans, [feedback for 343i]

This is a story feedback thread on Spartan-IVs, aimed at 343i [grim, vociferous, catalog or whoever else reads it I guess]. I’ve been wanting to do this so here we go. It’s quite long, so, prepare:

Introduction:
I feel like the current image of the Spartan-IVs are of these brash, arrogant and abrasive soldiers. They should be seen as these heroic, capable selfless heroes with different personalities, but I don’t see this variety to be very present. Let’s look at that. Most of our window into the Spartan-IVs comes from Palmer and Majestic. Now Palmer, a lot about her has already been said. There is the Halsey thing, the helmet thing, the berating of other soldiers. It’s not simply about doing it, it’s also about how you do it. Palmer seems to be a very static character I find and her interactions are not always pleasant it seems. Majestic?

They sometimes seem to be out of control, see Spartan ops episode 2. And it seems like things repeat themselves so much. How many times does Thorne get hurt/knocked out? The first time on Requiem, nice, he escaped. I find that one nice enough. On Ven III, he did get knocked down and captured again but he didn’t seem very resourceful or enduring when got conscious again. Spartans, the IIs and IIIs seem to brush off pain and keep going past normal limits. Naiya is one of my favourite IVs, she tries to be resourceful, quick thinking. Thorne has done some nice things, but then we also have the rest of majestic which seems to be a bit lacking in character and interaction. We got a nice part with Grant and Thorne but, it seemed to be this one-time thing that and not much afterwards. Making the Spartan-IVs really likable also depends on how they interact with each other and others. How do they talk with marines? Do they simply ignore them, and brush off their deaths? Do they berate them and think they’re a nuisance?

We’ve had some other exposure to Spartans but it’s very short in many of those cases. Dalton seems to handle things pretty well, he seems to have an eye on the big picture. A shame that he isn’t involved more in comics and such. Miller? He does try to be resourceful, we can see that in Spartan Ops when he’s the one trying to figure out what’s going on and what goes where. Mountain squad, well they didn’t seem to last very long… considering they are Spartans… although they did seem more disciplined. That’s one thing too, in gameplay, make them inspiring, make them feel like Spartans, not simply slow walking marines with shields. Castle team, well they did seem disciplined and like they could do the job on the chatter. Shadow? Ah, they come in, destroy a covenant cruiser, and get out. That’s the thing!

Overall, most other Spartan-IVs in Spartan ops seemed to be portrayed nicely enough. But it seems like the ones we see are mostly kind of, meh. And being a Spartan doesn’t simply mean, yay I killed four grunts, or yay I killed an elite who didn’t have shields while standing in the open. They need to be inspiring, they need to leave you in awe with their combat skills. Fluidity in combat. So let’s talk combat.

Spartans in combat

Combat, remember that thing Palmer said about a specialist being able to hit a target with a sniper without scoping in on a windy moonless night? Have moments like those sometimes, not just pep talk. Have acrobatics and fluidity in combat that gives awe. Awareness of what is going on and control of the situation. Not simply rushing in, bam bam I kill everything because it dies in one shot from a magnum. Show the shields and show how the Spartans have to work around that. Remember the halo wars cut scene monsters? When the Spartan-IIs faced those guards and were so fluid and acrobatic in combat? Show that!

Remember in Scanned, when John threw a grenade at the knights and ambushed them, taking a scattershot because it was more advanced and effective? Show that! Remember the package where the Spartans were acrobatic, fast and deadly? Show that! In headhunters, the Spartan-IIIs? They used gadgets like EMP grenades and kept firing at the shielded elite. Doesn’t MJOLNIR have an EMP capability? Use it to disable the shielding on elites and then one shot them with accuracy. Show a struggle where a IV wrestles an elite for an energy sword. There was a struggle between Thorne and Gek, and between that sangheili warrior that Ray fought. Give Spartans really nice feats. What do I think of as a Spartan? Fast thinkers, agility, mobility, strength, able to come up with plans. No weapons? Isn’t the best armory your enemy? A Spartan throwing a rock should be deadly, they’re strong! Remember when crimson escaped capture? That was awesome! Do it again! Hidden knife, take the enemy’s equipment.

One reason why I like Ray, she thinks fast and adapts. How could this have been done better in Spartan ops episode 7? Remember when Palmer was firing at the promethean knights? She should have told the marines to get to cover and tried to maybe take a shot for a marine to protect him, since she has energy shielding. She should have been more fluid, maybe running and shooting and jumping behind a promethean to grab the sword and kill him and maybe round them up so the marines can shoot at them from behind while throwing a grenade. Not standing there in the open shooting while a promethean knight teleports behind her and kills the marine next to him.

Spartan-IV interactions

Interactions, those are important too! How do they interact between eachother. Shouldn’t they be seen more as brothers and sisters? Shouldn’t they trust each other more? Interactions are not simply verbal. They can also be physical, actions too. There’s a group of IVs, how do they move together. Shouldn’t they know each other and move in a way that seems telepathic? Fluidity in movement between many Spartans. Aiding each other. Remember how Jorge in that vidoc was cover for Kat? Maybe have a Spartan get and overshield or hard light shield while another shoots from behind. That type of interaction, but also dialogue.

Have dialogue seem pleasant, funny and enjoyable. Have it be, I could listen to these characters talk for a long time. Have it be, I wish they would do a podcast because they are interesting characters so having them talk for an hour is entertaining. Do they try to understand each other? I liked the Grant and Thorne arc. I liked how Miller and Shadow interacted. Shadow team seemed happy to help and Miller was worried about them. Palmer and sometimes other IVs seem out of place. They don’t seem to fit in with the rest of the Spartan mentality. And how do they talk to marines, how do they talk to others? Marines are the main soldier, they’re still human though. They’re people.

Shouldn’t Spartans inspire them? Instead of being, Spartans shoot straight, to marines. Have them inspire them. Have the Spartans care about others and the big picture. Reality of war is that people die. But how to minimize the losses? Spartans CAN take bullets for soldiers, they can warn them, they can position them in better places tactically. They can inspire them and give them courage to keep fighting. And it’s also a problem with how marines are written. Have them seem like characters, not simply unnamed marine one, unnamed marine two, who die. Have Spartans reassure marines. There is this image, concept art I guess, where John is holding a boy in his hands to defend him from a brute. That’s a nice image.

The Heroic figure and comparisons with star wars

Spartans should be seen as the heroic types, who can see the big picture and plan. One of the big problems, I Guess with Spartan ops as well, was we didn’t see Spartans get involved in the big picture too much or do things I mentioned above. Wouldn’t it have been nicer if we had been informed on how each episode affected the big picture? How our actions as crimson did it? And crimson’s actions were nice. We took on waves and waves of covenant and prometheans. We fought through a lot, rescued other Spartans, other marines. Crimson’s service record is impressive and seems to be the type of action-Spartan with a capital S. They escaped being imprisoned, they were the rescue team, they fought through so much and did awesome things. Capitalize on that.

Now I’m going to draw a parallel to star wars. I don’t know if you guys have seen star wars the clone wars series. 6 seasons, it’s on Netflix and it’s really good. Don’t get turned down by the animation so quickly, it has its own art style that evolves over the course of the show. And the characters there, they are nice. They have nice interactions. What I really like about the clone wars is how we see the bigger picture of things, how things seem to conclude well enough each episode but also leave room for more. In escalations, it’s like, oh it suddenly ends with no satisfying conclusion because there are more issues on the way. Episodes in the clone wars seem satisfying. And, there is action in the clone wars, lots of it, ship on ship, extended action scenes, not simply a few seconds and it’s over.

I want to see more Spartans fight, more ship battles, more tactical moves and acrobatics. I want to see all that awesome stuff. It seems like you guys shy away from longer action scenes, space battles and so on. Don’t be afraid, show it and make sure it’s good. And make sure it fits with canon, not simply one shot its dead, have consistency. Marines? The clone troopers in the clone wars seem to have more personality, to be different. Marines in halo seem eh most of the time I find. Look at their armours, different commanders, different units. Have that show in halo, how different marines seem to belong to different commanders and so on. How they interact with each other and how they try to cope with everything that goes on. Spartans have their own branch that doesn’t have dedicated ranks like others. It uses the SR system, so take advantage of that. Have marines maybe under the command of Spartans and have customization, identification and personality.

I think the biggest parallel I’ll do is between the Jedi and Spartans. I think the Jedi have this nice image that could be applied to the Spartans. The jedi are like these heroic figures, selfless, capable, inspiring, wise. In the clone wars, you can see how they reassure clones, how they see the bigger picture and take decisions using that. What paths do they go with the clones? What equipment do they need? How best to protect their men under their command? They seem selfless many times and have personality. So have that too with Spartans. Different enjoyable personality, different nice characters, not simply plot devices. Have them be that heroic figure that’s so iconic. Like in forward unto dawn, how John was. Make a Spartan, a Spartan with a capital S.

Concluding thoughts

Fearless, cunning, intelligent, quick thinker, inspiring, agile, strong, fast, acrobatic, leader, flexible. Those are traits of a Spartan. Let’s think of a Spartan scenario. Want to get captured? Okay. A Spartan negotiates surrender with their enemy if possibly, and to save the lives of the marines, not simply a last stand where the Spartan survives, everyone else dies. The Spartan uses his cunning to escape and free the marines and inspires the marines. The Spartan thinks, improvises using the weapons and gear of the enemy. No help nearby? Hijack an enemy ship! And make sure the marines survive, have them think, have them be acrobatic, that is a Spartan.

So that’s my piece of feedback. Hope it helps the future of halo!

“In another time, each could have been the next Alexander, Cleopatra, Hannibal, or Genghis Khan.” ~ Catherine Halsey

I agree with everything you have stated except the slight tidbit about negiotating with the enemies, leave that to the politicians and diplomats, Spartans are bred for warfare!

The interaction with marines and other members of the non-augmented UNSC members, should be quite vocal within the Spartan branch… as the Spartan-IV are prior members of Orbital Drop Shock Troopers, Marines, Air Forces, Naval Forces etc. so they have alot more comparative knowledge of what it is like to feel subordinate to the ‘newer model’… unlike the former generations of Spartan-II and Spartan-III who were delicately silent and non-responsive. Also the Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs even in their distant relations, with other branch members, still managed to inspire moral and courage in other armed forces; so the Spartan-IVs should be doing this quite a bit too… anything less would be almost barbaric elitism, perhaps like the former differences between ODST and normal Marines.

By negotiations I mean being captured and being like, okay, we surrender, and keeping others alive.

But, I suppose I was a bit too harsh on palmer and majestic. I’m not saying they’re all bad, they do care and stuff, but I suppose they could still improve. Generally I think I like to defend palmer. But a lot of it is general perception I guess, but I use them as examples. Not saying palmer is all bad, but I guess I was a bit too harsh on them. But still, some improvements could be made to make them more like, what Jedi are to star wars.