Making CTF more Fun and Enjoyable?

I just watched this video, and I think it’s pretty interesting on how this guy explains his reasoning on how CTF could change, and how it can be fun again.

Watch the video here, and what do you think?

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sd9B9szh74&feature=plcp

In my opinion, I’m all up for the new changes this guy has to offer!

He has some awesome ideas. I can’t wait to hear about some of the gametype changes. :stuck_out_tongue:

I must say, he has some pretty nice ideas in that head of his. Can’t wait for his next vid.

  1. Take out all AAs

  2. Bring back flag juggling so the flag user doesn’t have the movement of a paraplegic.

CTF is now more fun and skillful.

He gives a good summary of CTF history throughout the existing Halo games.

I think the gametype issues relate more to skills than the game mechanics themselves. Regular teams who frequently play with each other or frequently play objective simply dominate other teams of randoms due to experience or teamwork skills in the playlist.

The real issue to combat this requires altering the gametype mechanics. It’s a fine balancing act but a necessary one. We saw Bungie attempt this with invasion and stockpile as they’re really designed to mix the best of slayer and objective to provide more playlists than just slayer.

Just how you provide a more enticing playlist for objective over slayer is beyond me. Judging by the statistics the largest percentages of players frequent slayer and living dead. I’m about as hardcore objective as they come and I’m not fond of either slayer or living dead.

I’m still yet to come up with “killer objective ideas for the masses” but that is the task in front of 343i to restore this cornerstone of Halo. I also believe the community and players themselves need to move away from the instant gratification and outcome of slayer.

> 1. Take out all AAs
>
> 2. Bring back flag juggling so the flag user doesn’t have the movement of a paraplegic.
>
> CTF is now more fun and skillful.

Yeah…no.

> 1. Take out all AAs
>
> 2. Bring back flag juggling so the flag user doesn’t have the movement of a paraplegic.
>
> CTF is now more fun and skillful.

This is not true. Team objective in Halo 3 late stages prior to the release of Reach had such settings. Team throwback also had such settings. Both failed miserably at restoring the population.

BTB objective may hold some answers in returning players to objective but I’ve a feeling groups/clans is going to be the potential return of CTF/Bomb as king.

*fingers crossed groups = clans returning.

Side note: I specialise in flag running and bomb arming, while I agree with flag juggling in terms of a powerful cooperative team often distraction, flag stealth, map movement and cover timing are far more successful in capturing/arming the objective.

The problem most players have with Objective play is that it’s too difficult. They don’t understand how to balance slaying with objective running so you end up with 2 things happening in almost every game:

  1. Bad players rushing the flag over and over, dying constantly while thinking they’re helping.

  2. Bad players statting on the other bad players, piling up kills thinking they’re helping.

Eventually that bad player going -39 realizes he’s not having fun (who woulda thought?), so he stops searching and eventually the bad player statting matches decent players / other players statting so he doesn’t have fun.

CTF was fine in all previous Halo games, but in Reach, flag carrying (outside of MLG) is such a chore with slow movement speeds, AAs, big maps, etc. Why cap if you can just kill is most players mentalities.

Fix those new Reach aspects (AAs, flag carrier cool down, flag carrier speed) and it would go over much better. But for the most part, Objective is going to have a lower population because it’s simply too difficult for 99.999999% of the population to understand how to successfully play.

He has some great ideas.

Those Ideas are Awful
just not there you know

only a few minutes to make a capture is fine but its not easy to make a capture depending on circumstances.

and the whole unlimited capture is “admissible” based on whether or not a team holds a flag capture to get additional time just like the SD fiasco

if anything there should be alternate objectives within the gametype like activate additional chargers like in a Power Def FF game, where the offense activates to delay a timer countdown that’s only efficient for use for a limited amount of times

while adding time to a Round session for 6-8 min

other mini objective addons

set up a hill marker to generate a teleporter PAD that only works when you sync up the generators to use to get item or whatever from point A to B while maintaining a slack so the teleportation is in no way OP.

These dont have to be anything its just a suggestion but think of some ways to add new flow of game experience to change a one pace game

I like his ideas for 1flag. But 2 Flag is too classic to remove, and I don’t believe its plagued with “do I slay? Capture their Flag, or get my flag back” All of those options are great, as well as fun. Good teams will be rewarded for their co-ordination, poor teams wont. With a little bit of experience, playing 2flag isn’t as bad as he made it out to be. I like his changes though.

Perhaps a better way to handle objective rounds is simply remove the rounds. Here me out…keep the slayer style continuous timed gameplay but make the spawns dynamic or the map design handle objective offense and defense fluidly.

This way the scoring is a matter of how many flag caps you can get during a fixed time. Reward scoring hugely so actually capturing or arming the objective is a priority.

Having a fixed time with dynamic scoring removes objective holding while promoting objective targeting/carrying.

Trial some variations of this during the first few months, use the built in statistics based on veto/quitting and then update monthly to refine a quality 2 flag/bomb or 1 flag/bomb (without rounds) variation.

Imagine when you arm the bomb you’re team spawns swap and therefore you need to score to tie or win etc.

Further extending the current iteration of invasion which has a triple territory to capture with a flag at the end etc could lead to so more complex objective based games. Using indicators, team/object tagging and multiple stages with loadouts as they do now would lead to a semi-popular playlist at least.

Would it kill them to put in a quick tutorial video explaining how to successfully play each gametype ? And for new gametypes, you just play it until you learn it ? Seriously wtf ?

I like some of the ideas this guy has, but I do hope that speedflag and normal CTF return with some changes.

Why is always the first thought to “improve” a game mode to change it? This guy is describing the game under worst case scenarios in which you have players who have no idea how to play, or assuming that Sudden Death is used for “Griefing” when its a total logical part of the gametype. You can use this fallacy argument to make ANY game mode look like -Yoink-, when you are assuming worst case scenario.

I will tell you what CTF needs and its not more variants or gimmicks,

  1. Good maps- Maps make objective, weapons make Slayer. 4v4 maps for objective in Reach are the worst in the Halo series by far. The maps are too large making encounters stand-offish, there is far too many “Open spaces” in the middle of maps like Countdown and Boardwalk making players not want to advance in fear of team-shot, the days of Warlock CTF and BC CTF are gone and replaced by inferior 4v4 maps.

This needs to change. More small-mid size 4v4 maps encouraging fast-paced play is the antidote to this problem.

  1. Movement physics- Its no secret that moving in Reach is sluggish and heavy and that the crazy physics of past Halo games are gone. No longer can you throw the flag, trick jump, grenade weapons, or do crazy strafes/flag beat-downs its like somebody stole Halo’s physics engine and replaced it with the one from Mass Effect or something. Moving like a turtle in Halo kills the constant fun of movement, something the player is doing almost 100 percent of the time in 4v4 Halo. The physics need to allow players to feel like a super-soldier again and bring that fun/spacey feel of movement back to the game. This is a much bigger issue than most players realize, movement physics made H2 God tier when without all the crazy physics it would of been much worse.

  2. Power items- A much overlooked feature absent from HR was the numerous power weapons and PW’s found on the map in past Halo games encouraging movement and strategy. This is important in OBJ modes as it gives another layer to the game outside of just “Slay until 3 or 4 down then grab the objective” and makes players think about their map movements on a critical level.

PW’s would best serve in regular OBJ game-types dispersed sparsely on the map on frequent timers ala CE to make for a dynamic and interactive experience.

Even the smallest maps like Warlock were able to incorporate power items, I am hoping to see the resurgence of PW’s in H4 to bring that dynamic and strategic feel back to the game.

  1. Make Objective competitive- Simply Put, 4v4 OBJ is part of the core Halo experience and has historically been most populated by competitive Halo players. A Good objective game is one in which various strategies and offensive and defensive dynamics have taken place, this kind of team-oriented playlist is going to attract groups of players who are looking for a team vs team battle in the most literal sense.

Trying to throw gimmicky game-types like speed-flag and neutral flag(really not a good game-type) is not going to attract more players to the playlist just like adding Team Shotguns to the MLG playlist is not going to boost the population.

Simply put, Objective needs a quality game to accompany it in order to be successful more-so than other play-lists do.

I think the true problem with CTF and the other objective gametypes is the rank system in Reach. In Halo 3, the game you played was only worth it if you won the game and got your 1 exp. In Reach, a win or a loss didn’t matter, all you needed was your kills to earn credits. I was able to play great CTF games in Halo 3 where the entire team was working towards winning while I never got that in Reach. Slayer didn’t have a problem because kills were what most people were working towards naturally. Reach made the added objective seemed a hassle. 343i seems to have fixed the rank system so a fixed CTF might come along with it, regardless of the changes they make.

> The problem most players have with Objective play is that it’s too difficult. They don’t understand how to balance slaying with objective running so you end up with 2 things happening in almost every game:
>
> 1. Bad players rushing the flag over and over, dying constantly while thinking they’re helping.
>
> 2. Bad players statting on the other bad players, piling up kills thinking they’re helping.
>
> Eventually that bad player going -39 realizes he’s not having fun (who woulda thought?), so he stops searching and eventually the bad player statting matches decent players / other players statting so he doesn’t have fun.
>
> CTF was fine in all previous Halo games, but in Reach, flag carrying (outside of MLG) is such a chore with slow movement speeds, AAs, big maps, etc. Why cap if you can just kill is most players mentalities.
>
> Fix those new Reach aspects (AAs, flag carrier cool down, flag carrier speed) and it would go over much better. But for the most part, Objective is going to have a lower population because it’s simply too difficult for 99.999999% of the population to understand how to successfully play.

I agree, i go +40 all day on 2flag slayer. The reason is that objective requires you to have an objective set of thought, not just killing. Find fastest flag routes, knowing when most players on the other team are dead for the best time to run the flag ect ect. I see you in lobbys with alot of my friends and i take it you area great player and understand competitive gaming but you must understand that the 99% of people you talked about don’t have a clue about competitive objective game types. I have a 92% win out of 500 games and a 3+ k/d in objective, looks like good stats but im not satisfied either due to no juggling and AA’s.