Making AAs work in Halo.

Here’s a post I made in reply to this thread: AAs are good for Halo…

> The problem is not the Armour Abilities themselves… but the way they are being treated. If you believe they should be removed from Halo completely, and complain endlessly until 343i gives in, you are basically taking the easy way out. Why not use your brain for once and figure out a way to improve the game with them included. It is not impossible to make AAs work.
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> Starting with AAs in a social (unranked) environment is fine, I’m ok with that… however,
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> in a competitive (ranked) environment, spawning with an AA should only occur in Big Team slayer/objective and Dominion (not including overpowered AAs). As for arena-style gametypes (FFA, 2v2, 4v4), AAs should act like powerups which spawn on the map, and each team has to work for them. No one should spawn with an AA here, period!
>
> I’ve come up with a custom 4v4 gametype which I’ve given the name “Hybrid Slayer” (I’ll let you guess why I chose that name), as well as made some changes to Haven, which uses AAs in such a manner. If testing gives positive results, I will go ahead with preparations to include other maps for this gametype.
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> If anyone is interested, and willing to provide assistance with testing, that would be much appreciated. I will upload the variant of Slayer and Haven I’ve created to my fileshare for those of you who wish to host a custom game using them.
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> Gamertag = Pfoiffee

Do you see only one end for AAs, death… or do you think they can survive in Halo if properly utilized? I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts on this.


Details for my custom Slayer gametype & Haven map variants are available here:

Hybrid Slayer - When Classic & Infinity Meet.

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343i needs our help to find the right place for AAs in a competitive arena environment.
I hope they are watching.

While dwelling on the subject… here’s another idea that came to mind, which I believe could be used effectively in BTB/Dominion gametypes.

Under the Game Loadouts sub-menu, add the “Custom Personal Ordnance” options to each loadout. This will enable loadouts to have their own unique Personal Ordnance. If AAs are added to PO (more specifically, strong AAs such as: Active Camo, Jetpack, Promethean Vision, & Hardlight Shield), this will give them a specific purpose.

It would be great for making “classes” (which I believe could work well in BTB/Dominion), and is something that’s been missing from BTB for quite some time now. Also, Loadout options (with custom PO options) should be added to the Player Traits, which will allow us to keep using Personal Loadouts, as Game Loadouts don’t give us access to Specialization Tactical Packages & Support Upgrades… :frowning:

I feel this will open a door to many great possibilities.

I like the use of armor abilities in regular Halo 4 MM.
I can see why people want restrictions on them in competitive playlists, but I think they add something to regular MM.

I really like this idea. However, I don’t think it would currently work in Halo 4, because when you die, you don’t drop your armour ability. It is essentially gone forever (until it respawns). If that could be patched, then I think this would work very well indeed.

It would also reduce the difficulty in balancing the sandbox. For example, right now, the jet pack needs to be balanced so it doesn’t “break map control”. If the jet pack were to spawn on certain maps, then it would become part of the map itself, and hence controlling the jet pack is part of controlling the map.

In some ways I even think this would be better than the traditional “powerups” in Halo, here’s why. If you rushed to get camo, but met somebody else who was beating you in a duel, if you were closer you could grab the camo just before you died, “burning” it, as they say. Yes, that is the right thing to do, and your team is better off, but it’s a bit boring overall don’t you think? An invisible enemy decimating your team might not help your chances of victory, but it’s damn fun to watch. And the other player who beat you doesn’t have much of a reward, which he would if you were rushing to a power weapon.

So, yeah, AAs on map, drop AAs when you die, and maybe tinker with the stats to accommodate for this.

I think Halo’s combat should evolve (hehe), but it’s evolving in the wrong direction. There needs to be NOTHING REMOTELY CLASS BASED! The beauty of Halo was that if you wanted to do a certain thing, you could just find some gear on the map and do it. Fancy going close quarters? Whip out your assault rifle and check the shotgun spawn areas. Want to go long range? Pick up a BR instead, there’s plenty to go round. No need to respawn just so you can change your stats.

Put them around the map like equipment from Halo 3 , that way Halo 4 will actually feel more like a arena shooter.

> I like the use or armor abilities in regular Halo 4 MM.
> I can see why people want restrictions on them in competitive playlists, but I think they add something to regular MM.

I agree with you, there is nothing wrong with the current use of AAs in a social fashion.

In a competitive, or “ranked” (Arena/BTB) environment however, I just don’t see them working well at all being used in the same way… it’s very difficult to accept.

> I really like this idea. However, I don’t think it would currently work in Halo 4, because when you die, you don’t drop your armour ability. It is essentially gone forever (until it respawns). If that could be patched, then I think this would work very well indeed.

Hmmm, good point here.

> It would also reduce the difficulty in balancing the sandbox. For example, right now, the jet pack needs to be balanced so it doesn’t “break map control”. If the jet pack were to spawn on certain maps, then it would become part of the map itself, and hence controlling the jet pack is part of controlling the map.

Exactly :slight_smile:

> In some ways I even think this would be better than the traditional “powerups” in Halo, here’s why. If you rushed to get camo, but met somebody else who was beating you in a duel, if you were closer you could grab the camo just before you died, “burning” it, as they say. Yes, that is the right thing to do, and your team is better off, but it’s a bit boring overall don’t you think? An invisible enemy decimating your team might not help your chances of victory, but it’s damn fun to watch. And the other player who beat you doesn’t have much of a reward, which he would if you were rushing to a power weapon.

That would be interesting… I guess, lol

> I think Halo’s combat should evolve (hehe), but it’s evolving in the wrong direction. There needs to be NOTHING REMOTELY CLASS BASED! The beauty of Halo was that if you wanted to do a certain thing, you could just find some gear on the map and do it. Fancy going close quarters? Whip out your assault rifle and check the shotgun spawn areas. Want to go long range? Pick up a BR instead, there’s plenty to go round. No need to respawn just so you can change your stats.

Pun intended? XD

Definitely no classes in the arena (4v4/2v2/FFA), but in gametypes with large teams & maps (BTB/Dominion)… why not?

Iv seen one of these threads for halo reach.

AA’s are fine they do what they do and there are ways to avoid them if they annoy you.

I have posted the current settings for my gametype variant, which can be found in the OP.

Armor Abilites are fine. However being able to pick and choose what to start with is not.

Instead armor abilities should be given unique visuals for easy identification, and placed on map ala equipment from Halo 3, but keeping their functions until death, then another player can pick it up. And if they don’t it respawns.

But also allow the option to spawn with them like in Reach and 4.

> Armor Abilites are fine. However being able to pick and choose what to start with is not.

I assume you are talking about Arena-style gameplay, in which case…

I would agree, because it’s abundantly clear that it doesn’t work in this environment. Choosing which AA ala “Equipment” to spawn with should only occur in ranked BTB/Dimonion & social gametypes, but only the very basic & weak AAs should be available off spawn, and then stronger AAs can be obtained through Personal Ordnance.

Most importantly, AAs should have a specific role or purpose. The basic AAs should be placed directly into loadouts to spawn with, while each loadout should have its own unique Personal Ordnance with it’s own weapons, and a strong AA. No one should have access to all AAs in a single loadout off spawn here.

> <mark>Instead armor abilities should be given unique visuals for easy identification</mark>, and placed on map ala equipment from Halo 3, but keeping their functions until death, then another player can pick it up. And if they don’t it respawns.

Agreed. This will make encounters more predictable, and gameplay will be far less random than what it currently is.

Like everyone know the AA come from the Halo 3 equipment but AA is like a good idea but they haven’t perfomed rigth and i don’t know if the AA have some space in an Arena game, i mean arena games everyone has an idividuallity by your skills or role and equipments optimize these thing but for a short period without taking the skill play out of the game AA do not make the same efect of the equipment this is why i vote for replace them

> Armor Abilites are fine. However being able to pick and choose what to start with is not.
>
> Instead armor abilities should be given unique visuals for easy identification, and placed on map ala equipment from Halo 3, but keeping their functions until death, then another player can pick it up. And if they don’t it respawns.

This is a great idea.

Update (17/02/13)

I was lucky enough to find a Slayer variant ahead of schedule, which has Instant Respawn disabled, allows the usage of Initial/Random Ordnance, and doesn’t override/remove any placed weapons on the map… simply put, I can now disable Insta-spawn without breaking the maps, so I will go ahead and upload my custom Haven variant & updated gametype to my fileshare.

Details of the gametype & fixes are available here…

Hybrid Slayer - When Classic & Infinity meet..

i like some AAs

I feel like if there should be one default AA, it should be Thruster Pack. Seems to be the only one with an actual skill gap and whatnot. Make the rest pick-ups.

> Do you see only one end for AAs, death… or do you think they can survive in Halo if properly utilized? I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts on this.

What you don’t understand is every possible implementation of AAs has been thought of by the best Halo players around and every single one of them is game breaking.

They cannot work so they should just get removed before yet ANOTHER Halo titled game is destroyed by them.

> > Do you see only one end for AAs, death… or do you think they can survive in Halo if properly utilized? I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts on this.
>
> What you don’t understand is every possible implementation of AAs has been thought of by the best Halo players around and every single one of them is game breaking.
>
> They cannot work so they should just get removed before yet ANOTHER Halo titled game is destroyed by them.

Did you actually spend time reading any of my posts, or… TL;DR?

No, I think I understand quite well. Yes, AAs as they are & being used right now creates imbalance in arena-style gameplay (if you can even call it that in Halo 4 atm), but do you honestly think there is no way for them to work? How about visual indicators which Robborboy was kind enough to point out. Do you still think they won’t even work then?

Why should the so called “best players” be able to dictate how a game is played. If they thought AAs couldn’t work, well… they mustn’t have tried hard enough. We need something to spice up gameplay & make things interesting, and AAs in the purest form are a good way to do it. We just need to find the right balance with them… it is not impossible.

> > > Do you see only one end for AAs, death… or do you think they can survive in Halo if properly utilized? I am interested in reading everyone’s thoughts on this.
> >
> > What you don’t understand is every possible implementation of AAs has been thought of by the best Halo players around and every single one of them is game breaking.
> >
> > They cannot work so they should just get removed before yet ANOTHER Halo titled game is destroyed by them.
>
> Did you actually spend time reading any of my posts, or… TL;DR?
>
> No, I think I understand quite well. Yes, AAs as they are & being used right now creates imbalance in arena-style gameplay (if you can even call it that in Halo 4 atm), but do you honestly think there is no way for them to work? How about visual indicators which Robborboy was kind enough to point out. Do you still think they won’t even work then?

Knowing someone has a jetpack doesn’t stop jetpacks completely breaking map flow…

> Why should the so called “best players” be able to dictate how a game is played. If they thought AAs couldn’t work, well… they mustn’t have tried hard enough. We need something to spice up gameplay & make things interesting, and AAs in the purest form are a good way to do it. We just need to find the right balance with them… it is not impossible.

Do you know why the best players are the best players? It’s because they know everything about the game. They know how every little change affects the game.

AAs just cannot work no matter what changes get made. Even going back to Halo 3s equipment, it broke the game. Even having less powerful equipment with massive markers telling who has what and where still breaks the game.

They. Just. Cannot. Work.