Title says it all, please? I would love for Veta Lopis to become a Spartan, her character in Last Light was amazing.
What do you think? I know it’s against her principles but everything is grey, not just black and white…
Potentially possible. Now that she’s an ONI operative and a member of the UNSC it could be in her future. Though the UNSC still needs unagumeted intelligence officers.
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> Title says it all, please? I would love for Veta Lopis to become a Spartan, her character in Last Light was amazing.
>
> What do you think? I know it’s against her principles but everything is grey, not just black and white…
No, not everyone needs to be a Spartan. I’m tired of “Spartan this, Spartan that”, or “S-IIs are better, S-IVs are stupid while completely ignoring the IIIs”.
Not only that, but it’ll make her work even more difficult considering that she’s a detective whose sneaking around digging things up. A Spartan can’t do that. Last time I checked MJORNIR armour weighs several hundred kilograms, and S-IVs are quite loud.
No, she shouldn’t be a Spartan, and nobody should become a Spartan just to become relevant to the story.
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> > Title says it all, please? I would love for Veta Lopis to become a Spartan, her character in Last Light was amazing.
> > What do you think? I know it’s against her principles but everything is grey, not just black and white…
>
>
> No, not everyone needs to be a Spartan. I’m tired of “Spartan this, Spartan that”, or “S-IIs are better, S-IVs are stupid while completely ignoring the IIIs”.
> Not only that, but it’ll make her work even more difficult considering that she’s a detective whose sneaking around digging things up. A Spartan can’t do that. Last time I checked MJORNIR armour weighs several hundred kilograms, and S-IVs are quite loud.
> No, she shouldn’t be a Spartan, and nobody should become a Spartan just to become relevant to the story.
This i love the III’s and why do you need to be a spartan to be relevent? Lopis could be relevent all her own. Make a game like ODST with her being the Dare like character and the III’s. You don’t have to be a spartan to be good just be written well.
Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
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> Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
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> > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
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> She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
Funny, cause it appears universal translators exist in the Halo universe as we have literally never needed a linguist to understand Elites in the games. There is also the fact that Osiris never once tried a diplomatic solution with any Elite ever, so having a diplomat is redundant. Also, no military would spend millions of dollars making a diplomat a super soldier. Combat is literally the opposite of their job description.
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> > 2533274815257118;1:
> > Title says it all, please? I would love for Veta Lopis to become a Spartan, her character in Last Light was amazing.
> >
> > What do you think? I know it’s against her principles but everything is grey, not just black and white…
>
>
> No, not everyone needs to be a Spartan. I’m tired of “Spartan this, Spartan that”, or “S-IIs are better, S-IVs are stupid while completely ignoring the IIIs”.
>
> Not only that, but it’ll make her work even more difficult considering that she’s a detective whose sneaking around digging things up. A Spartan can’t do that. Last time I checked MJORNIR armour weighs several hundred kilograms, and S-IVs are quite loud.
>
> No, she shouldn’t be a Spartan, and nobody should become a Spartan just to become relevant to the story.
Agreed, although spartans are cool and the next step in human evolution and what have you, not everyone should be a Spartan just because, and whether or not a character becomes a Spartan should be heavily dictated by what his/her function is, for example Buck becoming a Spartan makes sense, because he is a soldier, and one whose job description is literally feet first into hell, Lopis (or somebody like Dare for that matter) on the other hand makes no sense because they are supposed to blend in, is kinda hard to blend in when you are 7 foot tall.
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> Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
This is the thing about Vale, she is a prodigy, a one in a billion chance if she had been born before the human covenant war, she would have been a Spartan 2.
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> > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> >
> >
> > She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
>
>
> Funny, cause it appears universal translators exist in the Halo universe as we have literally never needed a linguist to understand Elites in the games. There is also the fact that Osiris never once tried a diplomatic solution with any Elite ever, so having a diplomat is redundant. Also, no military would spend millions of dollars making a diplomat a super soldier. Combat is literally the opposite of their job description.
I don’t think you get it, sometimes your are drop behind enemy lines in the back end of Afghanistan (or Sanghelios) and it pays to have someone in your unit that knows the culture so that you don’t offend your local tribesmen by doing something like talking to the wrong female or whatever
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> > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> >
> >
> > She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
>
>
> Funny, cause it appears universal translators exist in the Halo universe as we have literally never needed a linguist to understand Elites in the games. There is also the fact that Osiris never once tried a diplomatic solution with any Elite ever, so having a diplomat is redundant. Also, no military would spend millions of dollars making a diplomat a super soldier. Combat is literally the opposite of their job description.
Universal translators aren’t always right. Vale actually proved them wrong and improved upon them with no previous experience in sangheili - that’s how good she is. And tech isn’t infallible, it can break, and it isn’t always reliable. There is a reason the military is huge on redundancy. Also having someone who can speak your language is a massive boost in gaining trust. Imagine that you were talking to a robot or a person, who would you feel more comfortable with? The first rule of special operations is that people always are more critical than technology. Tech can malfunction and break - people don’t.
And in the US Army many Special Forces personnel serve as de facto diplomats - and have since Vietnam. They do combat, but their mind is just as important as their weapon - and in places like Afghanistan even more important. Getting people on you side is key to winning a war, and the terrain isn’t always going to be mountains and rivers - it is people to. They are fully trained Special Operators, and will fight as such. Vale also demonstrated extremely high marks on a combat test, especially so for a previous non-combat sailor, so she’s no liability. Having a native language skill isn’t just a asset with diplomacy, but also with intelligence. If you want it, you need to understand it. Also she part of a fireteam, you don’t just leave one member because your not expecting a certain situation - because it may come up anyway. Be prepared.
And you bet that if the US Military could augment its Special Operators it would augment all of them - because they are operators first, with other specialties. Take Air Force Combat Weatherman. They’re primary role is to support air operations in hostile territory by taking weather readings and other combat intelligence, but they also do direct action. They have been critical to the success of air combat operations, so yes the US would augment them just like they’d augment SEALs and Rangers.
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> > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
>
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> (1) This is the thing about Vale, she is a prodigy, a one in a billion chance if she had been born before the human covenant war, she would have been a Spartan 2.
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> > > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> > >
> > >
> > > She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
> >
> >
> > Funny, cause it appears universal translators exist in the Halo universe as we have literally never needed a linguist to understand Elites in the games. There is also the fact that Osiris never once tried a diplomatic solution with any Elite ever, so having a diplomat is redundant. Also, no military would spend millions of dollars making a diplomat a super soldier. Combat is literally the opposite of their job description.
>
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> (2) I don’t think you get it, sometimes your are drop behind enemy lines in the back end of Afghanistan (or Sanghelios) and it pays to have someone in your unit that knows the culture so that you don’t offend your local tribesmen by doing something like talking to the wrong female or whatever
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A prodigy of what? Everyone defends Vale by saying she is a prodigy but that is meaningless without knowing what she is supposedly good at and why. I’m sure Vale is very smart and good at what she does, but that doesn’t make her a good solider. Until I see some reason for Vale to be a better candidate to be a super soldier (other than she is a “prodigy”) than the millions of other soldiers with more experience than her, I will continue to be skeptical.
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Oh I get, I think you are misinterpreting what Spartan’s and Osiris are. They aren’t special forces, they’re super soldiers. They aren’t designed to integrate into a community and establish relations, they are multi-billion dollar weapons of destruction, designed to be superior killing machines. Osiris doesn’t need a diplomat because they literally kill everyone and everything that isn’t an ally. Did you see Vale say anything useful while Locke met with Arbiter? Nope, it was all business and mission-centric. If you need a diplomat for a mission you get one assigned to your unit, you don’t spend millions of dollars to make one a super soldier when her skills would only be useful a fraction of the time (they don’t fight Sangheli 24/7).
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> > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> >
> >
> > (1) This is the thing about Vale, she is a prodigy, a one in a billion chance if she had been born before the human covenant war, she would have been a Spartan 2.
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> > > > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > She was an ONI operative. The military actually does have real people like her, and her skill set would actually be quite useful to Special Operation units, such as Army Special Forces, where knowing a language and having diplomatic skills is just as critical to mission success as breaking down doors.
> > >
> > >
> > > Funny, cause it appears universal translators exist in the Halo universe as we have literally never needed a linguist to understand Elites in the games. There is also the fact that Osiris never once tried a diplomatic solution with any Elite ever, so having a diplomat is redundant. Also, no military would spend millions of dollars making a diplomat a super soldier. Combat is literally the opposite of their job description.
> >
> >
> > (2) I don’t think you get it, sometimes your are drop behind enemy lines in the back end of Afghanistan (or Sanghelios) and it pays to have someone in your unit that knows the culture so that you don’t offend your local tribesmen by doing something like talking to the wrong female or whatever
>
>
> 1) A prodigy of what? Everyone defends Vale by saying she is a prodigy but that is meaningless without knowing what she is supposedly good at and why. I’m sure Vale is very smart and good at what she does, but that doesn’t make her a good solider. Until I see some reason for Vale to be a better candidate to be a super soldier (other than she is a “prodigy”) than the millions of other soldiers with more experience than her, I will continue to be skeptical.
>
> 2) Oh I get, I think you are misinterpreting what Spartan’s and Osiris are. They aren’t special forces, they’re super soldiers. They aren’t designed to integrate into a community and establish relations, they are multi-billion dollar weapons of destruction, designed to be superior killing machines. Osiris doesn’t need a diplomat because they literally kill everyone and everything that isn’t an ally. Did you see Vale say anything useful while Locke met with Arbiter? Nope, it was all business and mission-centric. If you need a diplomat for a mission you get one assigned to your unit, you don’t spend millions of dollars to make one a super soldier when her skills would only be useful a fraction of the time (they don’t fight Sangheli 24/7).
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Vale was a language prodigy, proving a mechanical translator translations of sangheili wrong, then improving the translations - all without any background in Sanghili. Then there was taking a War Games type simulation and preforming better than most soldiers with combat experience while she had none.
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Spartans are Special Operations forces. The value in special operations forces is not just their ability to destroy vast amounts of enemy equipment and hardware (if you really want to do that send in a Ranger or Infantry Unit), but in their capacity for irregular warfare. Augmented or not, the mission of special operations hasn’t changed very much. They still do direct action, but also counter insurgency, which involves a good deal of diplomatic skills. S-IVs aren’t just killing machines, if they were you would just see your average grunts becoming them. And your assumption that you just assign people based on missions is not the way real special operations forces work. Special Operations units have a good degree of autonomy, and many members have skills - be it in culture, language, intelligence, etc. That versatility is the real value of special operations forces - not just kicking down doors. If anything the wars in Vietnam and Afghanistan have taught us that.
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> > > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
>
>
> (1) Universal translators aren’t always right. Vale actually proved them wrong and improved upon them with no previous experience in sangheili - that’s how good she is. (2) And tech isn’t infallible, it can break, and it isn’t always reliable. There is a reason the military is huge on redundancy. (3) Also having someone who can speak your language is a massive boost in gaining trust. Imagine that you were talking to a robot or a person, who would you feel more comfortable with? The first rule of special operations is that people always are more critical than technology. Tech can malfunction and break - people don’t.
>
> And in the US Army many Special Forces personnel serve as de facto diplomats - and have since Vietnam. They do combat, but their mind is just as important as their weapon - and in places like Afghanistan even more important. Getting people on you side is key to winning a war, and the terrain isn’t always going to be mountains and rivers - it is people to. They are fully trained Special Operators, and will fight as such. (4) Vale also demonstrated extremely high marks on a combat test, especially so for a previous non-combat sailor, so she’s no liability. Having a native language skill isn’t just a asset with diplomacy, but also with intelligence. If you want it, you need to understand it. Also she part of a fireteam, you don’t just leave one member because your not expecting a certain situation - because it may come up anyway. Be prepared.
- You don’t need her to be a Spartan for that. Just have her in mission control listening to Osiris’s comms and translate for them.
- Seriously? They need her because their translators might break? Heck, might was well make a mechanic a Spartan because their Warthog might break down or a Chef because they might loose their rations.
- Osiris isn’t there to gain trust, they are there to kill people/aliens/robots. The diplomats are there to gain peoples trust, the Spartan’s are there to murder people and blow stuff up. You don’t waste millions/billions of dollars on people with non-essential skills that can be carried out by non-Spartans.
- To me this always seemed like an incredibly forced explanation. 343 basically said, “Hey, you don’t believe a complete newb with no training or experience could be accept into the most prestigious and demanding military program in the galaxy? Don’t worry, she got good test scores…”
You keep making the same wrong assumption that special forces = Spartans. They aren’t the same. The UNSC spends billions of dollars to make Spartans the ultimate killing machines, they wouldn’t waste their money on training/augmenting people with skills that are not benefited by augmentations and power armor. In the end, Vale’s skills are completely replaceable. They already have translators and even if they don’t they don’t need their translator to be physically there to translate for them. As for the diplomatic skills, I’m sure they can brief and train the members of Osiris in the finer points of Sangheli culture (though I don’t think it is a big deal because they didn’t need her skills once on the home planet of the Sangheli, so if they didn’t need her their they won’t need her anywhere).
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> > > > > Well, it would make more sense than Vale becoming a Spartan (I mean really, a combat diplomat?). That being said, just leave her be. No need to hammer home the point that literally anybody can be a Spartan any further.
> >
> >
> > (1) Universal translators aren’t always right. Vale actually proved them wrong and improved upon them with no previous experience in sangheili - that’s how good she is.****(2) And tech isn’t infallible, it can break, and it isn’t always reliable. There is a reason the military is huge on redundancy. (3) Also having someone who can speak your language is a massive boost in gaining trust. Imagine that you were talking to a robot or a person, who would you feel more comfortable with? The first rule of special operations is that people always are more critical than technology. Tech can malfunction and break - people don’t.
> >
> > And in the US Army many Special Forces personnel serve as de facto diplomats - and have since Vietnam. They do combat, but their mind is just as important as their weapon - and in places like Afghanistan even more important. Getting people on you side is key to winning a war, and the terrain isn’t always going to be mountains and rivers - it is people to. They are fully trained Special Operators, and will fight as such. (4) Vale also demonstrated extremely high marks on a combat test, especially so for a previous non-combat sailor, so she’s no liability. Having a native language skill isn’t just a asset with diplomacy, but also with intelligence. If you want it, you need to understand it. Also she part of a fireteam, you don’t just leave one member because your not expecting a certain situation - because it may come up anyway. Be prepared.
>
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> 1) You don’t need her to be a Spartan for that. Just have her in mission control listening to Osiris’s comms and translate for them.
> 2) Seriously? They need her because their translators might break? Heck, might was well make a mechanic a Spartan because their Warthog might break down or a Chef because they might loose their rations.
> 3) Osiris isn’t there to gain trust, they are there to kill people/aliens/robots. The diplomats are there to gain peoples trust, the Spartan’s are there to murder people and blow stuff up. You don’t waste millions/billions of dollars on people with non-essential skills that can be carried out by non-Spartans.
> 4) To me this always seemed like an incredibly forced explanation. 343 basically said, “Hey, you don’t believe a complete newb with no training or experience could be accept into the most prestigious and demanding military program in the galaxy? Don’t worry, she got good test scores…”
>
> You keep making the same wrong assumption that special forces = Spartans. They aren’t the same. The UNSC spends billions of dollars to make Spartans the ultimate killing machines, they wouldn’t waste their money on training/augmenting people with skills that are not benefited by augmentations and power armor. In the end, Vale’s skills are completely replaceable. They already have translators and even if they don’t they don’t need their translator to be physically there to translate for them. As for the diplomatic skills, I’m sure they can brief and train the members of Osiris in the finer points of Sangheli culture (though I don’t think it is a big deal because they didn’t need her skills once on the home planet of the Sangheli, so if they didn’t need her their they won’t need her anywhere).
Special Operations Forces according to NATO: “Special operations are military activities conducted by specially designated, organized, trained, and equipped forces, manned with selected personnel, using unconventional tactics, techniques, and modes of employment. These activities may be conducted across the full range of military operations, independently or with conventional forces, to help achieve the desired end-state. Politico-military considerations may require clandestine or covert techniques and the acceptance of a degree of political or military risk not associated with operations by conventional forces. Special Operations deliver strategic or operational-level results or are executed where significant political risk exists.”
Fits Spartans.
In the US Armed Forces Special Operations units range from Navy SEALs, Air Force Combat Weatherman, Air Force Special Tactics, Army Rangers, Army Special Forces, Marine Force Recon, among others. That’s quite a diverse skill set, all elite units.
And if the link from command gets cut off? Again, tech fail, people doesn’t. Special Operations units are designed to be self sufficient, and make decisions while cut off from command. Their mind is just as valuable a weapon as a rifle.
A common misconception is that all that special operations does is kill people, they do so much more. A critical part of Special Operations is Counter-insurgency and foreign internal defense, which requires interaction with people on the ground. Yes, they do direct action, but they do so much more - and that is what makes them valuable. You wont see all of this on the news, but it is critical in winning modern wars.
If you just want to blow something up send in an infantry or armor unit.
Dude, I’m tired of this argument. All I’ll say is it is incredibly dumb to put someone in a billion dollar suit of powered armour that can smash holes in steel and make them undergoes significant and painful invasive surgery to increase their strength and reflexes when their main job is to talk. It doesn’t make her any more effective at her job, it is just a waste.
I rather prefer her to be the grounded human element of the group. It’s more compelling seeing a 5ft nothing have full control over 3 Demi-God kids, much the same way Halsey was with the IIs.
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> Dude, I’m tired of this argument. All I’ll say is it is incredibly dumb to put someone in a billion dollar suit of powered armour that can smash holes in steel and make them undergoes significant and painful invasive surgery to increase their strength and reflexes when their main job is to talk. It doesn’t make her any more effective at her job, it is just a waste.
She seemed to handle herself well on Kamchatka, Meridian, Sanghelios and Genesis while also surviving the Ark. I honestlythink if she had she not been a distraction for 000 Tragic Solitude, that rampant Monitor may have been more focused on his task and that would have spelled doom for humanity and the galaxy. You say it would be incredibly dumb to give her the augmentations and MJOLNIR, but evidently the UNSC felt she was good enough because of her martial arts training, participation in Operation: FAR STORM, prodigious War Games scores and fluency in Sangheili. Spartan-IVs are after all picked because of their feats in the field or potential.
Hell, Vale is far more qualified than Spartan Madsen who only got into the Spartans because of nepotismm.
I like my Veta Lopis without the armour.
I think she has potential to become quite a sneeky ONI operative, similar to Dare in a way.
I hope we get to see more of her.
Just make a spec ops game with Spartan III ferret units and have veta there for support, could you imagine a fast paced stealth based multi-player game mode?
I’d love a Spartan III game with SPI armor and odd weapons like the MA5K carbine with stealth game play and health packs
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> Dude, I’m tired of this argument. All I’ll say is it is incredibly dumb to put someone in a billion dollar suit of powered armour that can smash holes in steel and make them undergoes significant and painful invasive surgery to increase their strength and reflexes when their main job is to talk. It doesn’t make her any more effective at her job, it is just a waste.
There’s more to a Spartan than fighting, when given augmentations a Spartan can think and solve problems at a faster rate than a normal person. Its why we have Spartans like Miller who just sit around a desk all day, having a better brain would allow Vale to react better to potential hostile situations in diplomacy.
My only complaint with Vale is that she wasn’t needed until they went to Sanghelios and when they finally get there she barley interacts with the Elites at all, even Lasky was responsible for making arrangements to visit the planet which is something Vale should have done.
Apart from combat the only thing she actually did was tell Osiris that Jul was unleashing his Kraken on Kamchatka, the rest of the time she only asked the rest of Osiris questions which the rest of the team gave obvious answers to.