I don’t know if anyone else has brought this up but there has been a few instances where I’ve noticed that turrets will continue to target holographic decoys after they have been detected instead of switching to attacking real units. I think the auto targeting should be smarter and prioritise real units over decoys. Maybe this is already implemented and something else was going on in games where this has happened to me, but if not then this really should be changed …
I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
> 2535427787090876;2:
> I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
> 2533274823396923;3:
> > 2535427787090876;2:
> > I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> > Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> > Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
>
> I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
>
> To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
>
> This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
About mastodons I mean units inside shoot random targets like turrets do because they work like the garrisons around the map.
I understand your point and I said it makes sense.
From what I read we don’t agree because we have different opinions about Isabel, not about the change you propose.
> 2535427787090876;4:
> > 2533274823396923;3:
> > > 2535427787090876;2:
> > > I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> > > Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> > > Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
> >
> > I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
> >
> > To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
> >
> > This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
>
> About mastodons I mean units inside shoot random targets like turrets do because they work like the garrisons around the map.
>
> I understand your point and I said it makes sense.
> From what I read we don’t agree because we have different opinions about Isabel, not about the change you propose.
Ah I see, I never really use mastodon so I didn’t realize that was the case. I’m actually quite surprised that you can’t target with mastodon units! Seems pretty dumb to me! Other RTS games with garrison units don’t work like that (Command & Conquer APCs for instance). Perhaps that should be looked at too! Though that could impact balance more that the change I’m suggesting here.
Isabel balance is another topic perhaps for another forum post, but there are some awesome strategies for her out there that I would recommend. Quick tech 2 then triple pumping hogs with accelerated assembly is a pretty crazy build, which this change would give a good defensive answer to.
Using Holo-decoy to distract turrets is one of the only strengths of Holo-decoy. It is perfect where it is, I do no think it should change.
> 2533274798980159;6:
> Using Holo-decoy to distract turrets is one of the only strengths of Holo-decoy. It is perfect where it is, I do no think it should change.
You can still use them to do that, just not as effective when there’s a detect unit . . . or else what’s the point of having detect units and (especially) sensor towers reveal decoys in the first place.
Its just incredibly dumb when I’m telling my units to focus down real units while my turrets are off firing at clearly identified decoys instead of helping me defend …
It sounds like you are complaining about the holo-decoy doing its job. Regardless of how the turrets are programmed to fire at units, it’s a coin toss on whether the unit they start to attack is real or a decoy. If your turret starts to attack a real unit, good for you. If not, good for the enemy.
> 2533274888721102;8:
> It sounds like you are complaining about the holo-decoy doing its job. Regardless of how the turrets are programmed to fire at units, it’s a coin toss on whether the unit they start to attack is real or a decoy. If your turret starts to attack a real unit, good for you. If not, good for the enemy.
They attack whatever comes first I believe, which is why I holo-decoys are sent in first.
I’m complaining about turrets not getting the full benefit of sensor towers and detect units.
Holo-decoys do a good job unless they are detected, which is kind of an important feature and should be extended to defensive situations.
> 2533274823396923;9:
> > 2533274888721102;8:
> > It sounds like you are complaining about the holo-decoy doing its job. Regardless of how the turrets are programmed to fire at units, it’s a coin toss on whether the unit they start to attack is real or a decoy. If your turret starts to attack a real unit, good for you. If not, good for the enemy.
>
> They attack whatever comes first I believe, which is why I holo-decoys are sent in first.
>
> I’m complaining about turrets not getting the full benefit of sensor towers and detect units.
> Holo-decoys do a good job unless they are detected, which is kind of an important feature and should be extended to defensive situations.
Okay I’m starting to understand your argument. Turrets will attack the first target within range which is why people always send in Holo-decoys first to take the turret damage away, but I see your point of having a sensor tower should detect these decoys… I guess that makes sense…
> 2533274798980159;10:
> > 2533274823396923;9:
> > > 2533274888721102;8:
> > > It sounds like you are complaining about the holo-decoy doing its job. Regardless of how the turrets are programmed to fire at units, it’s a coin toss on whether the unit they start to attack is real or a decoy. If your turret starts to attack a real unit, good for you. If not, good for the enemy.
> >
> > They attack whatever comes first I believe, which is why I holo-decoys are sent in first.
> >
> > I’m complaining about turrets not getting the full benefit of sensor towers and detect units.
> > Holo-decoys do a good job unless they are detected, which is kind of an important feature and should be extended to defensive situations.
>
> Okay I’m starting to understand your argument. Turrets will attack the first target within range which is why people always send in Holo-decoys first to take the turret damage away, but I see your point of having a sensor tower should detect these decoys… I guess that makes sense…
Thanks! Its a perfectly legitimate use of holo-decoys, I myself frequently do it when playing as Izzy to great effect
However a sensor tower or detect unit should negate it if the game was smart enough to tell turrets to switch to target real units as they come into range. If you have no sensor tower or detect unit in range then the strategy still works as it does now. I can totally understand the comments from people pointing out that Izzy isn’t the strongest leader, and this would be a nerf in very specific situations, however my view would be that game mechanics should be made consistent before thinking about balance. i.e. given that decoys are exposed by detect units then turrets should do what any sane human would do and switch to genuine targets as they come into range.
You do know you can tell turrets what to attack right?
> 2533274855353246;12:
> You do know you can tell turrets what to attack right?
Say whaaaat! If that’s true then consider my mind blown!
How do you tell them to switch targets? I just tried to do this in a custom and whenever you select them it just asks if you want to upgrade them; they don’t seem ‘selectable’ in the way normal units are. Same with garrisoned units.
> 2533274823396923;13:
> > 2533274855353246;12:
> > You do know you can tell turrets what to attack right?
>
> Say whaaaat! If that’s true then consider my mind blown!
>
> How do you tell them to switch targets? I just tried to do this in a custom and whenever you select them it just asks if you want to upgrade them; they don’t seem ‘selectable’ in the way normal units are. Same with garrisoned units.
you click on the turret and then press x on what you want it to attack. I do it all the time with drop turrets but id have to go back and see if I can do it with base turrets. I’m pretty sure you can with base turrets.
> 2533274855353246;14:
> > 2533274823396923;13:
> > > 2533274855353246;12:
> > > You do know you can tell turrets what to attack right?
> >
> > Say whaaaat! If that’s true then consider my mind blown!
> >
> > How do you tell them to switch targets? I just tried to do this in a custom and whenever you select them it just asks if you want to upgrade them; they don’t seem ‘selectable’ in the way normal units are. Same with garrisoned units.
>
> you click on the turret and then press x on what you want it to attack. I do it all the time with drop turrets but id have to go back and see if I can do it with base turrets. I’m pretty sure you can with base turrets.
Just checked this. You are correct for drop turrets, but not for base turrets. The option wheel available for base turret upgrades prevents you from selecting it like you can with a drop turret - which of course cannot be upgraded. I actually didn’t notice this for drop turrets, so I appreciate this little nugget of information anyway! Incidentally, I probably didn’t notice that because it appears the icon for drop turrets in the bottom left takes the form of your last selected unit rather than a turret (maybe a bug or they just don’t have a turret icon).
So let me know when you verify this so I don’t have to go delete my account out of embarrassment.
> 2533274823396923;15:
> > 2533274855353246;14:
> > > 2533274823396923;13:
> > > > 2533274855353246;12:
> > > > You do know you can tell turrets what to attack right?
> > >
> > > Say whaaaat! If that’s true then consider my mind blown!
> > >
> > > How do you tell them to switch targets? I just tried to do this in a custom and whenever you select them it just asks if you want to upgrade them; they don’t seem ‘selectable’ in the way normal units are. Same with garrisoned units.
> >
> > you click on the turret and then press x on what you want it to attack. I do it all the time with drop turrets but id have to go back and see if I can do it with base turrets. I’m pretty sure you can with base turrets.
>
> Just checked this. You are correct for drop turrets, but not for base turrets. The option wheel available for base turret upgrades prevents you from selecting it like you can with a drop turret - which of course cannot be upgraded. I actually didn’t notice this for drop turrets, so I appreciate this little nugget of information anyway! Incidentally, I probably didn’t notice that because it appears the icon for drop turrets in the bottom left takes the form of your last selected unit rather than a turret (maybe a bug or they just don’t have a turret icon).
>
> So let me know when you verify this so I don’t have to go delete my account out of embarrassment.
wow, I didn’t know this either! cool!
I disagree with the OP. This is working as intended. Turrets will target the first unit in their LOS and continue to target it until the unit dies. That’s why tactically you should send in your hero or scarab before your main force so they target that. Doing this with Isa’s decoy is exactly what they are designed for, regardless of being revealed by detect or not. She’s a bottom tier leader now, so her decoys should be left well enough alone if not outright buffed. I think they shouldn’t be able to be detected period. Plain and simple.
> 2533274823396923;5:
> > 2535427787090876;4:
> > > 2533274823396923;3:
> > > > 2535427787090876;2:
> > > > I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> > > > Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> > > > Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
> > >
> > > I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
> > >
> > > To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
> > >
> > > This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
> >
> > About mastodons I mean units inside shoot random targets like turrets do because they work like the garrisons around the map.
> >
> > I understand your point and I said it makes sense.
> > From what I read we don’t agree because we have different opinions about Isabel, not about the change you propose.
>
> Ah I see, I never really use mastodon so I didn’t realize that was the case. I’m actually quite surprised that you can’t target with mastodon units! Seems pretty dumb to me! Other RTS games with garrison units don’t work like that (Command & Conquer APCs for instance). Perhaps that should be looked at too! Though that could impact balance more that the change I’m suggesting here.
>
> Isabel balance is another topic perhaps for another forum post, but there are some awesome strategies for her out there that I would recommend. Quick tech 2 then triple pumping hogs with accelerated assembly is a pretty crazy build, which this change would give a good defensive answer to.
The fact is that I don’t believe much in fast tech builds, at least in most maps. I think that if you scout immediatly you are able to stop that with flamers or at least cause some damage. But probably depends on how both builds are executed.
> 2535427787090876;18:
> > 2533274823396923;5:
> > > 2535427787090876;4:
> > > > 2533274823396923;3:
> > > > > 2535427787090876;2:
> > > > > I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> > > > > Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> > > > > Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
> > > >
> > > > I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
> > > >
> > > > To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
> > > >
> > > > This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
> > >
> > > About mastodons I mean units inside shoot random targets like turrets do because they work like the garrisons around the map.
> > >
> > > I understand your point and I said it makes sense.
> > > From what I read we don’t agree because we have different opinions about Isabel, not about the change you propose.
> >
> > Ah I see, I never really use mastodon so I didn’t realize that was the case. I’m actually quite surprised that you can’t target with mastodon units! Seems pretty dumb to me! Other RTS games with garrison units don’t work like that (Command & Conquer APCs for instance). Perhaps that should be looked at too! Though that could impact balance more that the change I’m suggesting here.
> >
> > Isabel balance is another topic perhaps for another forum post, but there are some awesome strategies for her out there that I would recommend. Quick tech 2 then triple pumping hogs with accelerated assembly is a pretty crazy build, which this change would give a good defensive answer to.
>
> The fact is that I don’t believe much in fast tech builds, at least in most maps. I think that if you scout immediatly you are able to stop that with flamers or at least cause some damage. But probably depends on how both builds are executed.
It’s of course slightly risky. But with a turret or two you can get to T2 before most leaders can cause a real threat - Colony and Arbiter being the notable exceptions. Then she can triple pump hogs and negate the usual response tactic of investing in anti-vehicle turrets with her decoys. Even if this change is implemented, you could just mac the sensor tower and/or ram the snipers and your basically golden - most times people have neither. But at least turrets and detect units will be doing their job in the meantime.
> 2533274823396923;19:
> > 2535427787090876;18:
> > > 2533274823396923;5:
> > > > 2535427787090876;4:
> > > > > 2533274823396923;3:
> > > > > > 2535427787090876;2:
> > > > > > I think both turrets and units choose a random target without making difference with holo decoys.
> > > > > > Honestly, even though your point makes sense, I think it’s ok the way it is because Isabel has not much except for that and spartan/mac blast. In this way holo decoys are viable after the early game too.
> > > > > > Also, Jerome (when inside his mantis) and units in mastodons have a similar interaction.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t see any similarity with mastodons? They are still actual units that cost money and time to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > To clarify, I’m only saying that if you can see that its a decoy then the turrets should switch targets. So you’d have to have a detect unit nearby or a sentry tower for the turrets to see that its a fake and then switch targets. This just means that to make holo decoy effective when pushing a base with upgraded turrets you would have to place more importance on getting rid of detect units and sentry towers.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is only a minor suggested change that is more for consistency i.e. if I can see a unit is a decoy then so should my turrets. This wouldn’t really impact balance in any meaningful way - Isabel is actually pretty strong in my view and has good leader powers across the board. Perhaps it will give defenders a minor boost vs her very strong quick tech 2 into hogs - but only if you’re smart and build a sensor tower along with anti-vehicle turrets.
> > > >
> > > > About mastodons I mean units inside shoot random targets like turrets do because they work like the garrisons around the map.
> > > >
> > > > I understand your point and I said it makes sense.
> > > > From what I read we don’t agree because we have different opinions about Isabel, not about the change you propose.
> > >
> > > Ah I see, I never really use mastodon so I didn’t realize that was the case. I’m actually quite surprised that you can’t target with mastodon units! Seems pretty dumb to me! Other RTS games with garrison units don’t work like that (Command & Conquer APCs for instance). Perhaps that should be looked at too! Though that could impact balance more that the change I’m suggesting here.
> > >
> > > Isabel balance is another topic perhaps for another forum post, but there are some awesome strategies for her out there that I would recommend. Quick tech 2 then triple pumping hogs with accelerated assembly is a pretty crazy build, which this change would give a good defensive answer to.
> >
> > The fact is that I don’t believe much in fast tech builds, at least in most maps. I think that if you scout immediatly you are able to stop that with flamers or at least cause some damage. But probably depends on how both builds are executed.
>
> It’s of course slightly risky. But with a turret or two you can get to T2 before most leaders can cause a real threat - Colony and Arbiter being the notable exceptions. Then she can triple pump hogs and negate the usual response tactic of investing in anti-vehicle turrets with her decoys. Even if this change is implemented, you could just mac the sensor tower and/or ram the snipers and your basically golden - most times people have neither. But at least turrets and detect units will be doing their job in the meantime.
Yes it’s ok in both cases.