Make Halo 5 for hardcore gamers

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Hey, what’s happening people?

Like the topic says I think 343i should make Halo 5 for the hardcore gamers in mind. As most of us know 343i made Halo 4 more casual friendly instead of making it more advanced. Removing weapons that they thought were too advanced for the casual gamer to use etc.

Let me ask you guys in the community, when has a Halo game ever been too hard to get into and when has a Halo game not been appealing enough for casual gamers?

The reason I’m writing about this is because it’s us hardcore gamers that’s gonna support and play the game in the end. A casual gamer will buy and play the game for a little while and then stop playing and supporting the game. They might pick up the game and play it at rare occasions when they have friends over but it’s us die hard fans that’s gonna spend hours,days,months playing the game.

I think Halo was already appealing enough for all gamers before Reach and Halo 4 and there’s no reason to dumb down the skill difference between players. People can still have a great time even though they’re not competitive players.

Yes I’m gonna talk about ranks because we love to feel good about our selfs.

Many of us who like competitive aspect of Halo and want to have that number next to our gamertag while playing too feel good about our selfs. That number represent us and our skill in the game. It let’s us have a goal to reach after. Winning and losing matters to us. We enjoy tactical game chatting, trash talk and friendly conversations. We praise those moments when it’s an even match and we might lose our rank because we might lose the game and our heartbeat starts racing. We might lose the game and we hate it but we love it and we gotta play another game in matchmaking.

I played Halo 4 not too long ago and no one’s using a headset. I don’t know the reason for this but I think it’s because most of us either don’t play Halo 4 anymore, winning and losing doesn’t matter and map control isn’t important anymore because power weapons are not placed on the maps.

How do you guys feel about this?

2

When I first played Combat Evolved, I stank. I couldn’t three shot any moving target at all. But others could kick my -Yoink-. This skill gap gave me a reason to play Halo often, because I would get better from experience. By removing the skill gap, you make your game more accessible, but the challenge is just gone. I’m not the best at Halo, but it seems like I have way fewer skills to learn in Halo 4. You could bring back the old skills like leading projectile bullets. Don’t worry about the pros obliterating the newbs; that can be solved with good matchmaking.

3

Competitive is good to have. So is casual. Sometimes I get amped up and want to win. Other times I just want to enjoy some wacky fun.

Halo 3 hit on the right formula - an area for each. Show the 1-50 for those who care about competitive play, and show the Reach-style rank for those who want to just enjoy the ride. Both sides can be happy in Halo 5.

As for the headset thing, I don’t really care for it but I never considered it a sign of good sportsmanship (or not). A player doesn’t need a mic to be competitive or a good teammate - situational awareness can do most of the heavy lifting. In my experience I’m just as likely to hear a foul-mouthed kid who thinks he cool as I am to hear a player who doesn’t rage or complain, so it’s a wash to me.

4

In most Halo 4 multiplayer matches, I can get insanely high K/D ratios. This is not because I am a “good” player by any means, it is because the game is just to blam! easy. Challenge is what makes me want to play more which is why Halo 4 is my least played Halo game to date. (Only about 400 MM games)

5

> Let me ask you guys in the community, when has a Halo game ever been too hard to get into and when has a Halo game not been appealing enough for casual gamers?

Sure, the most recent Halos. You look at the mechanics and you have a pretty simple game but its balance can be easily bent by anyone with the knowledge of how to hold Mt. Campy with a DMR or just find the power weapons. You might invoke the truism “easy to learn, hard to master” but what it probably involves more is just a very particular design, a hold over from an earlier genre of gaming that didn’t quite have the right/most intuitive idea for how to build maps, structure gameplay, or distribute the most fun toys in the arsenal (given that the very concept of the 3D multiplayer shooter was just a few years old when the first Halo was made.)

If you picked Halo up with the first few games, such wouldn’t have been an issue because other developers were largely in the same uniformed boat (until about 2006 or 2007.) But now, with as proficient as the industry as become, it’s a very different matter.

Besides, that is a pretty loaded question. Obviously we all got into Halo. Those you should be asking aren’t here.

6

> In most Halo 4 multiplayer matches, <mark>I can get insanely high K/D ratios</mark>. This is not because I am a “good” player by any means, it is <mark>because the game is just to blam! easy</mark>. Challenge is what makes me want to play more which is why Halo 4 is my least played Halo game to date. (Only about 400 MM games)

If you can get these super high K/Ds it must be because you are being matched with players of lower skill. From your profile it seems You are only CSR 8 in team slayer. Play longer, increase your CSR and you will be matched with more skilled players.

7

Who’s definition of “hardcore gamer” are we using here? Because my definition of “hardcore gamer” in respect to Halo is someone who’s eyeballs-deep in the lore.
Surely a number next to our gamertag representing our guesstimated “skill” and caring about said number isn’t the only qualification for “hardcore gamer”. At least not the qualification(s) that actually matters in respect to Halo.

8

> Who’s definition of “hardcore gamer” are we using here? Because my definition of “hardcore gamer” in respect to Halo is someone who’s eyeballs-deep in the lore.
> Surely a number next to our gamertag representing our guesstimated “skill” and caring about said number isn’t the only qualification for “hardcore gamer”. At least not the qualification(s) that actually matters in respect to Halo.

It is obvious that he isn’t talking about the fans who love the lore and want to know as much about it as possible.

He is talking about the gamers who spend their time everyday playing this game and trying to master it. You know, the Competitive group of the Halo players.

I would be happy to have the 1-50 ranking system back and the Social/Competitive playlists. As flawed as 1-50 was, people liked it. It’s a fact that Halo 2 and 3 were the bright days of Halo, and where is the difference from the game we have today? I know, the ranking is not the only difference, but still an important one.

9

> Hey, what’s happening people?
>
> Like the topic says I think 343i should make Halo 5 for the hardcore gamers in mind. As most of us know 343i made Halo 4 more casual friendly instead of making it more advanced. Removing weapons that they thought were too advanced for the casual gamer to use etc.
>
> Let me ask you guys in the community, when has a Halo game ever been too hard to get into and when has a Halo game not been appealing enough for casual gamers?
>
> The reason I’m writing about this is because it’s us hardcore gamers that’s gonna support and play the game in the end. A casual gamer will buy and play the game for a little while and then stop playing and supporting the game. They might pick up the game and play it at rare occasions when they have friends over but it’s us die hard fans that’s gonna spend hours,days,months playing the game.
>
> I think Halo was already appealing enough for all gamers before Reach and Halo 4 and there’s no reason to dumb down the skill difference between players. People can still have a great time even though they’re not competitive players.
>
> Yes I’m gonna talk about ranks because we love to feel good about our selfs.
>
> Many of us who like competitive aspect of Halo and want to have that number next to our gamertag while playing too feel good about our selfs. That number represent us and our skill in the game. It let’s us have a goal to reach after. Winning and losing matters to us. We enjoy tactical game chatting, trash talk and friendly conversations. We praise those moments when it’s an even match and we might lose our rank because we might lose the game and our heartbeat starts racing. We might lose the game and we hate it but we love it and we gotta play another game in matchmaking.
>
> I played Halo 4 not too long ago and no one’s using a headset. I don’t know the reason for this but I think it’s because most of us either don’t play Halo 4 anymore, winning and losing doesn’t matter and map control isn’t important anymore because power weapons are not placed on the maps.
>
> How do you guys feel about this?

MS wants to make money. Therefore Halo will be for the masses rather than the hardcore. This does not mean it is awful, but rather they want the game to be financially successful, as well as critically successful.

Bayonetta is a great game for the hardcore. Unfortunately, no one else bought it…

10

> > Hey, what’s happening people?
> >
> > Like the topic says I think 343i should make Halo 5 for the hardcore gamers in mind. As most of us know 343i made Halo 4 more casual friendly instead of making it more advanced. Removing weapons that they thought were too advanced for the casual gamer to use etc.
> >
> > Let me ask you guys in the community, when has a Halo game ever been too hard to get into and when has a Halo game not been appealing enough for casual gamers?
> >
> > The reason I’m writing about this is because it’s us hardcore gamers that’s gonna support and play the game in the end. A casual gamer will buy and play the game for a little while and then stop playing and supporting the game. They might pick up the game and play it at rare occasions when they have friends over but it’s us die hard fans that’s gonna spend hours,days,months playing the game.
> >
> > I think Halo was already appealing enough for all gamers before Reach and Halo 4 and there’s no reason to dumb down the skill difference between players. People can still have a great time even though they’re not competitive players.
> >
> > Yes I’m gonna talk about ranks because we love to feel good about our selfs.
> >
> > Many of us who like competitive aspect of Halo and want to have that number next to our gamertag while playing too feel good about our selfs. That number represent us and our skill in the game. It let’s us have a goal to reach after. Winning and losing matters to us. We enjoy tactical game chatting, trash talk and friendly conversations. We praise those moments when it’s an even match and we might lose our rank because we might lose the game and our heartbeat starts racing. We might lose the game and we hate it but we love it and we gotta play another game in matchmaking.
> >
> > I played Halo 4 not too long ago and no one’s using a headset. I don’t know the reason for this but I think it’s because most of us either don’t play Halo 4 anymore, winning and losing doesn’t matter and map control isn’t important anymore because power weapons are not placed on the maps.
> >
> > How do you guys feel about this?
>
> MS wants to make money. Therefore Halo will be for the masses rather than the hardcore. This does not mean it is awful, but rather they want the game to be financially successful, as well as critically successful.
>
> Bayonetta is a great game for the hardcore. Unfortunately, no one else bought it…

Halo never was successful because of it’s multiplayer(As around 70% of their buyers don’t even touch the multiplayer) and that’s why trying to make the multiplayer as balanced as possible isn’t going to neglect sales.

I also have 3 examples of games where they all have dumbed down their games and lost tons of players when it comes to online and multiplayer gameplay. The games are called Gears of War, Halo and WOW(decrease with each extra pack). We can see that every other game except those games have had an increase in gameplay time compared to it precursor, but these 3 games have actually decreased - And they have all been dumbed down.

You may say that the games are too hard? They are not anymore.
You may say that the games are outdated? All the counterstrike games (3 games, same game play, different graphics) together peaks over 150k players every day, and Team Fotress peaks over 50k each day. These are hard outdated shooters.

So why did the players stop playing the 3 watered down games: Halo, GOW and WOW?
As it isn’t because they are too easy, or that games with outdated gameplay and grapics still countains 10 times higher peak population than Halo 4’s game.

Is it then true that all the 3 games which all have decreased in population, is it because they have been watered down?

We don’t know, but it definetly is something to think about.

Halo has gone from balanced calmy gameplay to frustrating I want to throw my TV out of the window gameplay. Who wants to play something like that?

11

I’ve gotta disagree with you on this one.

I think Halo 4 was directed more towards the hardcore gamer.

And I think BOTH aspects need to be implemented.

Personally, I bought Halo originally as a casual. And although I do respect the hardcore gamer, I think that Halo 4 was made almost strictly for the hardcore.

If Halo 5 is made for hardcore gamers only, 343i would lose a lot of fanbase.

Casuals like myself enjoy Custom games, forge, making machinimas, silly gametypes, armor customization, super overpowered weapons, armor abilities, etc.

Let’s say they made Halo 5 for hardcore only.

Here’s one example.

No reason to add a weapon lowering system I guess. Because people will just be playing matchmaking. No machinimas.

Without somethin as simple as the weapon lowering system. You’ve already lost hundreds if not thousands of people. The Halo machinima community relies on this simple tool to make really cool videos.

It was already flawed in Halo 4. And let me ask you something, do you see more Halo: Reach machinimas, or Halo 4?

It’s important to have even playing surfaces for both the hardcore and the casual

12

> > > Hey, what’s happening people?
> > >
> > > Like the topic says I think 343i should make Halo 5 for the hardcore gamers in mind. As most of us know 343i made Halo 4 more casual friendly instead of making it more advanced. Removing weapons that they thought were too advanced for the casual gamer to use etc.
> > >
> > > Let me ask you guys in the community, when has a Halo game ever been too hard to get into and when has a Halo game not been appealing enough for casual gamers?
> > >
> > > The reason I’m writing about this is because it’s us hardcore gamers that’s gonna support and play the game in the end. A casual gamer will buy and play the game for a little while and then stop playing and supporting the game. They might pick up the game and play it at rare occasions when they have friends over but it’s us die hard fans that’s gonna spend hours,days,months playing the game.
> > >
> > > I think Halo was already appealing enough for all gamers before Reach and Halo 4 and there’s no reason to dumb down the skill difference between players. People can still have a great time even though they’re not competitive players.
> > >
> > > Yes I’m gonna talk about ranks because we love to feel good about our selfs.
> > >
> > > Many of us who like competitive aspect of Halo and want to have that number next to our gamertag while playing too feel good about our selfs. That number represent us and our skill in the game. It let’s us have a goal to reach after. Winning and losing matters to us. We enjoy tactical game chatting, trash talk and friendly conversations. We praise those moments when it’s an even match and we might lose our rank because we might lose the game and our heartbeat starts racing. We might lose the game and we hate it but we love it and we gotta play another game in matchmaking.
> > >
> > > I played Halo 4 not too long ago and no one’s using a headset. I don’t know the reason for this but I think it’s because most of us either don’t play Halo 4 anymore, winning and losing doesn’t matter and map control isn’t important anymore because power weapons are not placed on the maps.
> > >
> > > How do you guys feel about this?
> >
> > MS wants to make money. Therefore Halo will be for the masses rather than the hardcore. This does not mean it is awful, but rather they want the game to be financially successful, as well as critically successful.
> >
> > Bayonetta is a great game for the hardcore. Unfortunately, no one else bought it…
>
> Halo never was successful because of it’s multiplayer(As around 70% of their buyers don’t even touch the multiplayer) and that’s why trying to make the multiplayer as balanced as possible isn’t going to neglect sales.
>
> I also have 3 examples of games where they all have dumbed down their games and lost tons of players when it comes to online and multiplayer gameplay. The games are called Gears of War, Halo and WOW(decrease with each extra pack). We can see that every other game except those games have had an increase in gameplay time compared to it precursor, but these 3 games have actually decreased - And they have all been dumbed down.
>
> You may say that the games are too hard? They are not anymore.
> You may say that the games are outdated? All the counterstrike games (3 games, same game play, different graphics) together peaks over 150k players every day, and Team Fotress peaks over 50k each day. These are hard outdated shooters.
>
> So why did the players stop playing the 3 watered down games: Halo, GOW and WOW?
> As it isn’t because they are too easy, or that games with outdated gameplay and grapics still countains 10 times higher peak population than Halo 4’s game.
>
> Is then true that all the 3 games which all have decreased in population as they have been watered down, is it because they have been watered down?
>
> We don’t know, but it definetly is something to think about.
>
> Halo has gone from balanced calmy gameplay to frustrating I want to throw my TV out of the window gameplay. Who wants to play something like that?

Playing many different Kinds of MMO’s I can never get into them. Whatever game mechanics the games has, they all still boring to me. The thing that really have kept me playing one game a little more over another is simply my friends. My friends makes the games fun, WOW, TERA, or even the 2D MMO game Maplestory and they are all equally boring without them. Call of Duty may have put players more at the same level (making it more fun being at the same level as your friends), but that is where Halo’s custom games, forge and Social playlist lit up. Something Halo 4 also lacks.

Halo needs to go back to it’s old gameplay and shine at the community part.

I mean I can enjoy a game of chess against my friends, but there is NO way I would enjoy playing it with the computer.

I think Halo’s balanced gameplay + the community part is really what made Halo popular when it comes to the multiplayer.

13

As a casual player myself, I find myself agreeing completely with this post. While a competitive game (Halo 2, Halo 3) can cater very well to both the competitive and casual crowds, the same cannot be said for a more casual-oriented game (Halo 4). Furthermore, a competitive, balanced arena-style game, like the Halo games of the original trilogy, add a wide diversity in gameplay based both on skill and smart playing, which I find very enjoyable, even if I don’t care about my K/D ratio or whether or not I win/lose a match.

Hell, even Halo 4’s random gameplay isn’t enjoyable, even if it’s catered to “us casuals” by being “accessible”. Just because somebody isn’t a hardcore, competitive player, it does not mean that they want the game to hold their hand all of the time by effectively removing anything that made the game challenging and interesting.

Just look at Halo 4’s population and how it dropped drastically since the game’s release. It’s clear that catering to the casuals with this Infinity stuff is not the way to go, and is not what players want. Build off of the original trilogy. Use Bungie’s winning formula, and then innovate with it.

14

> I think Halo’s balanced gameplay + the community part is really what made Halo popular when it comes to the multiplayer.

Perhaps not all-encompassing, but this is a major part of the issue. Remember when Bungie used to feature community maps/videos/gametypes/screenshots? And when the custom game options could actually allow for such zany games to be created to begin with?

343I should have a “Community Mix” playlist.

> I think Halo 4 was directed more towards the hardcore gamer.

Not even. Many hardcore players had to break the game with mods just to get the experience they want, such as disabling sprint and shrinking hitboxes.

15

> > I think Halo’s balanced gameplay + the community part is really what made Halo popular when it comes to the multiplayer.
>
> Perhaps not all-encompassing, but this is a major part of the issue. Remember when Bungie used to feature community maps/videos/gametypes/screenshots? And when the custom game options could actually allow for such zany games to be created to begin with?
>
> 343I should have a “Community Mix” playlist.
>
>
>
> > I think Halo 4 was directed more towards the hardcore gamer.
>
>
>
> > Not even. Many hardcore players had to break the game with mods just to get the experience they want, such as disabling sprint and shrinking hitboxes.
>
> And even then they all state that they dislike the game.
>
> In the ghandi’s episode interviewing the pros all state several times how they dislike the maps, calling csr poor, weapons etc and mechanics in general.
>
> Halo 3 AGL before it was cancelled reached twice the amount of Halo 4 teams, and nowadays there is no pro streaming Halo 4 anymore - Only Halo 3 and a few other games.
>
> They also get a lot more viewers when playing Halo 3. They have all stated it several times and I think Ninja got his peak view count at 1.200 when playing Halo 3.
>
> I am a player comparable to pros (I actually beat M0NSTER, a player which often plays with Ninja) in Halo 3 Team doubles on sunday, and I despise Halo 4.
>
> While I wouldn’t say this myself I am going to quote mikwen to show my feelings for Halo 4 and sprint: “The persons idea to put in sprint in Halo 4 should fall of a bridge and break his legs”.

16

> I’ve gotta disagree with you on this one.
>
> I think Halo 4 was directed more towards the hardcore gamer.
>
> And I think BOTH aspects need to be implemented.
>
> Personally, I bought Halo originally as a casual. And although I do respect the hardcore gamer, I think that Halo 4 was made almost strictly for the hardcore.
>
> If Halo 5 is made for hardcore gamers only, 343i would lose a lot of fanbase.
>
> Casuals like myself enjoy Custom games, forge, making machinimas, silly gametypes, armor customization, super overpowered weapons, armor abilities, etc.
>
> Let’s say they made Halo 5 for hardcore only.
>
> Here’s one example.
>
> No reason to add a weapon lowering system I guess. Because people will just be playing matchmaking. No machinimas.
>
> Without somethin as simple as the weapon lowering system. You’ve already lost hundreds if not thousands of people. The Halo machinima community relies on this simple tool to make really cool videos.
>
> It was already flawed in Halo 4. And let me ask you something, do you see more Halo: Reach machinimas, or Halo 4?
>
>
> It’s important to have even playing surfaces for both the hardcore and the casual

Halo 4 was nowhere near directed to “hardcore” gamers. Ordinance Drops, Tactical and Support packages, no out-zooming when shot and other mechanics make the game much more player-friendly. And with people leaving games, and people joining games, it makes the Competitive part even smaller. Many would even consider Sprint a bad idea.

And you are mixing Custom Games with War Games. If they make the game directed to hardcore gamers, it doesn’t mean they won’t focus on making the Custom Games as fun as they were before. It didn’t prevent Bungie while they were making Halo 3. And look at Custom Games in Halo 4: limited as limited can be

And there was no weapon lowering in Halo 3, weapon lowering in Halo 4 wasn’t so good. Still, it made no impact to the games population. People don’t leave a game because they cannot lower their weapon while they are playing offline.

As already mentioned up there, just because they are making the game “hardcore” oriented, there is no reason not to add weapon lowering or upgrade custom games. So I have to disagree with you.

But I do agree that they should try an implement both aspects of playing, and that is what Halo 3 did with Social and Ranked.

17

> Who’s definition of “hardcore gamer” are we using here? Because my definition of “hardcore gamer” in respect to Halo is someone who’s eyeballs-deep in the lore.
> Surely a number next to our gamertag representing our guesstimated “skill” and caring about said number isn’t the only qualification for “hardcore gamer”. At least not the qualification(s) that actually matters in respect to Halo.

This^

I, am not by any means, “good” at Halo. In fact, I’d consider myself to be of lower skill. However, -Yoink- that. I play Halo because I like it. I play Halo for its lore, its story, its music, and just about anything like that.

There is much more to Halo than its multiplayer, so those who consider people who are bad at the game “casual” and “inferior” gamers - people like that should open their offset and ignorant eyes.

18

> > Who’s definition of “hardcore gamer” are we using here? Because my definition of “hardcore gamer” in respect to Halo is someone who’s eyeballs-deep in the lore.
> > Surely a number next to our gamertag representing our guesstimated “skill” and caring about said number isn’t the only qualification for “hardcore gamer”. At least not the qualification(s) that actually matters in respect to Halo.
>
> This^
>
> I, am not by any means, “good” at Halo. In fact, I’d consider myself to be of lower skill. However, -Yoink!- that. I play Halo because I like it. I play Halo for its lore, its story, its music, and just about anything like that.
>
> <mark>There is much more to Halo than its multiplayer</mark>, so those who consider people who are bad at the game “casual” and “inferior” gamers - people like that should open their offset and ignorant eyes.

While this is true, and I myself love the lore and know a lot about it (the story is what got me into Halo), we shouldn’t pretend as if multiplayer is of no importance.

Nobody who is to be taken serious considers bad players as “inferior” or “casual”. Many people buy the game for the Campaign, but quite a lot of them also stay because of the multiplayer. Therefore, multiplayer needs to be done right so the population can grow.

19

I consider myself average to slightly above average on multiplayer, however hardcore does not mean your skill is super high. Hardcore means you play daily or any opportunity you have as well as digging into the halo universe in general because you LOVE IT. I am both of these, I consider myself “hardcore”.

20

I love how most if not all “Competitive”/“Hardcore” gamers think that Competitive gameplay is the most universal gameplay out there, and I call total bulshit on that BS.

You want a fun hard game, go play Halo CE MP, it’s fun, and it’s competitive, hell MLG use to play Halo CE, and guess what, ITS DESIGNED AROUND “CASUAL GAMERS”.

Also before I see anyone reply with “Halo CE didn’t have Online MP, it has LAN” BS, Halo CE on the PC was the very first Halo game to have online MP.

An ideal MP game is one that is designed for both Competitive and “casual” gamers in mind.