Major Map Discrepancy on Badlands

On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.

This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.

I -Yoinking!- knew it!!! The other day I noticed that the one had one and I was like sweet good to know. Then another game I spawned on the other end and saw it had three.

Yup, it’s awful to play against - especially in 2v2s which I play a lot of when one pair get all that extra energy early game.

The garrisonable tower in front of the central base on Rift is also imbalanced - one side is close enough to shoot at the enemy’s base from while the other doesn’t quite have the range.

> 2533274797514710;4:
> The garrisonable tower in front of the central base on Rift is also imbalanced - one side is close enough to shoot at the enemy’s base from while the other doesn’t quite have the range.

if you put a watch tower it sees the garrison on the cliff above your base if its same one i’m thinkin it is

> 2533274802858354;5:
> > 2533274797514710;4:
> > The garrisonable tower in front of the central base on Rift is also imbalanced - one side is close enough to shoot at the enemy’s base from while the other doesn’t quite have the range.
>
> if you put a watch tower it sees the garrison on the cliff above your base if its same one i’m thinkin it is

The issue is that the men can shoot your base from the tower on one side but not the other. The tower isn’t symmetrical which is imbalanced.

You can send your marines instantly to the tower at the start and it will kill the front left supply pad on the enemy’s base and maybe even more depending on how much you commit to it / how the enemy deal with it. Sure you can put your own men in there to prevent the enemy from getting in, but then you lose a group of marines to pick up resources which puts you at a disadvantage also.

It needs to be the same on both sides, whether that’s too far away to shoot the base or close enough - it doesn’t matter if it’s symmetrical.

On That side of the map you will save about 20-27s of time
And its huge!

> 2533274802858354;5:
> > 2533274797514710;4:
> > The garrisonable tower in front of the central base on Rift is also imbalanced - one side is close enough to shoot at the enemy’s base from while the other doesn’t quite have the range.
>
> if you put a watch tower it sees the garrison on the cliff above your base if its same one i’m thinkin it is

No, rift is the map with the 0/2 garrison in front of your base.

I think it’s designed that way. The other variant of Badlands also has a defenseless node right in front of the base (s).

> 2533274812650916;9:
> I think it’s designed that way. The other variant of Badlands also has a defenseless node right in front of the base (s).

That defenseless node is available on both sides of the map, i.e. map is still symmetric from a functional perspective. Badlands, however, is not. So one side get a fairly substantial advantage.

Just to be clear, the problem is not that there is only 1 sentinel on the northern node, the problem is that it’s not the same on both sides.

> 2533274852578016;1:
> On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.
>
> This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.
>
> http://imgur.com/a/Y8DCq

Well that’s a disparity indeed but remember wars 1 had this general disparity as well in multiple things (sometimes resources, sometimes what reactor hook can do work on the rebel base… ETC.). I’m not saying I think it’s fair or I like it I’m just saying it has been a feature before.

> 2533274820642782;11:
> > 2533274852578016;1:
> > On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.
> >
> > This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.
> >
> > http://imgur.com/a/Y8DCq
>
> Well that’s a disparity indeed but remember wars 1 had this general disparity as well in multiple things (sometimes resources, sometimes what reactor hook can do work on the rebel base… ETC.). I’m not saying I think it’s fair or I like it I’m just saying it has been a feature before.

Slavery was a ‘feature’ before, should it be condoned just because historically it was a feature of life? Not equating this to slavery in any way at all, rather making clear that those sort of arguments are not valid.

> 2533274852578016;12:
> > 2533274820642782;11:
> > > 2533274852578016;1:
> > > On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.
> > >
> > > This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.
> > >
> > > http://imgur.com/a/Y8DCq
> >
> > Well that’s a disparity indeed but remember wars 1 had this general disparity as well in multiple things (sometimes resources, sometimes what reactor hook can do work on the rebel base… ETC.). I’m not saying I think it’s fair or I like it I’m just saying it has been a feature before.
>
> Slavery was a ‘feature’ before, should it be condoned just because historically it was a feature of life? Not equating this to slavery in any way at all, rather making clear that those sort of arguments are not valid.

So you bring something up then say you don’t equate your argument to it then you claim mine is invalid? Great argumentation bro.

I was also not even making an argument either :expressionless: I was simply making a point. It’s different…

I probly don’t like it as much as you do… We’re on the same side guy

> 2533274820642782;13:
> > 2533274852578016;12:
> > > 2533274820642782;11:
> > > > 2533274852578016;1:
> > > > On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.
> > > >
> > > > This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.
> > > >
> > > > http://imgur.com/a/Y8DCq
> > >
> > > Well that’s a disparity indeed but remember wars 1 had this general disparity as well in multiple things (sometimes resources, sometimes what reactor hook can do work on the rebel base… ETC.). I’m not saying I think it’s fair or I like it I’m just saying it has been a feature before.
> >
> > Slavery was a ‘feature’ before, should it be condoned just because historically it was a feature of life? Not equating this to slavery in any way at all, rather making clear that those sort of arguments are not valid.
>
> So you bring something up then say you don’t equate your argument to it then you claim mine is invalid? Great argumentation bro.
>
> I was also not even making an argument either :expressionless: I was simply making a point. It’s different…
>
> I probly don’t like it as much as you do… We’re on the same side guy

I said I don’t equate the objects involved, not the logical argument - something which you seem to have confused with the word argument used in the sense of a social … disagreement.

To simply justify or defend something based on the fact that it has historically occured, even when you yourself conceded that you don’t think it’s fair or that you don’t like it, is not a valid argument.

Anyway - I brought the issue up because a game determined by (or at least, heavily favoured by) a coin flip (which side you spawn on) is not much fun, and certainly does not fit into a competitive RTS genre.

> 2533274852578016;14:
> > 2533274820642782;13:
> > > 2533274852578016;12:
> > > > 2533274820642782;11:
> > > > > 2533274852578016;1:
> > > > > On Badlands, the northernmost power node has 1 single neutral sentinel guarding it, whereas the southernmost power node has 3 neutral sentinels guarding it.
> > > > >
> > > > > This makes a major difference as the northernmost node can be secured with a single grunt/marine whereas the southernmost requires 2 or more.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://imgur.com/a/Y8DCq
> > > >
> > > > Well that’s a disparity indeed but remember wars 1 had this general disparity as well in multiple things (sometimes resources, sometimes what reactor hook can do work on the rebel base… ETC.). I’m not saying I think it’s fair or I like it I’m just saying it has been a feature before.
> > >
> > > Slavery was a ‘feature’ before, should it be condoned just because historically it was a feature of life? Not equating this to slavery in any way at all, rather making clear that those sort of arguments are not valid.
> >
> > So you bring something up then say you don’t equate your argument to it then you claim mine is invalid? Great argumentation bro.
> >
> > I was also not even making an argument either :expressionless: I was simply making a point. It’s different…
> >
> > I probly don’t like it as much as you do… We’re on the same side guy
>
> I said I don’t equate the objects involved, not the logical argument - something which you seem to have confused with the word argument used in the sense of a social … disagreement.
>
> To simply justify or defend something based on the fact that it has historically occured, even when you yourself conceded that you don’t think it’s fair or that you don’t like it, is not a valid argument.
>
> Anyway - I brought the issue up because a game determined by (or at least, heavily favoured by) a coin flip (which side you spawn on) is not much fun, and certainly does not fit into a competitive RTS genre.

I never created an argument to attempt to justify anything so… Yeah.

Again. We are on the same side.

You misunderstand my initial comment still. Again, no argument created just point made. Again, different.

> 2533274852578016;10:
> > 2533274812650916;9:
> > I think it’s designed that way. The other variant of Badlands also has a defenseless node right in front of the base (s).
>
> That defenseless node is available on both sides of the map, i.e. map is still symmetric from a functional perspective. Badlands, however, is not. So one side get a fairly substantial advantage.
>
> Just to be clear, the problem is not that there is only 1 sentinel on the northern node, the problem is that it’s not the same on both sides.

Ooooh okay, my apologies! You are absolutely right.

Also on badlands (I think), one of the watchtowers near the energy bridge can access the console while the other cannot. That’s hugely imbalanced as well. I don’t know how these things were missed in development, or even the last patch. They really need to start fixing things faster- 1 month is a bit too long for such major imbalances in an RTS game.

Starcraft, DOTA, and other competitive games have bug/ balance fixes every week, sometimes more. It’s baffling that HW2 is trying to be competitive and doesn’t do the same. At the rate of 1 update a month, this game will never be balanced properly.