Magnum Starts Would Make BTB Worse

I’m gonna tell you this right now. Magnum starts will make BTB far worse than it already is. You wanna know why 343 won’t use Magnum starts for BTB? I’ll tell you. The number one reason 343 won’t put Magnum starts in BTB is because of the vehicles. Think about it. If you think farming in BTB is bad now, just think of what will happen if you spawn with a Magnum instead of a BR. A well coordinated tryhard team in BTB will make sure to completely stomp on their enemies and make sure they don’t get their hands on power weapons and vehicles. Imagine you’re playing a game of CTF on Viking and the enemy team grabs Spartan Laser. They take out their enemy’s Banshee, their Gauss Hog, and their Wraith. Then the Banshee that’s still up proceeds to completely destroy the enemy team along with their Gauss Hog and Wraith. They make sure to cap one flag and have the enemies guard their base. They see that their vehicles have spawned up and proceed to steal them. Then for 15 more minutes, they’ll farm the crap out of the other team. Except this time, they can’t fight back.

See, at least with the BR, you can fight back against vehicles like the Warthog and the Banshee by teamshooting. Teashooting with the BR can do significant damage to vehicles. The Magnum can’t fight the vehicles at all even with teamshooting. Especially the Banshee. You try to teamshoot a Banshee with a Magnum, the Banshee pilot will laugh his butt off and then bomb the crap out of the enemies shooting him. I know what you’re thinking. " But there are BRs and Carbines on the map so you can still counter vehicles that way. " Not a bad argument. However, up against a sweaty team, they will make sure the team they’re up against don’t get their hands on weapons like that. A smart BTB team knows to steal as much weapons and vehicles from the enemy team as they can. Not only that, but most tryhard BTB teams know how to use the Magnum like pros so casual players will get completely dominated.

I rest my case. BR starts are the best for BTB. Magnum starts would cause a lot of trouble. The farming would be a thousand times worse than it already is.

I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.

> 2533274816788253;2:
> I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.

The argument that because they’ve been in every other Halo doesn’t really work. The Halo 5 BR is a different weapon than we had in Halo 3 and 4. All it does is lead to endless long range battles with mostly stagnation throughout the match.

And Op you are talking about a well coordinated team running away with a match would be worse if BR starts were removed. This already happens with or without BR’s. I don’t think they will remove the BR starts because they’ve been in too long by this point, but I do hope that with Halo 6, if the BR is going to work on par with the H5 BR then they should definitely consider it for BTB.

> 2533274863544717;3:
> > 2533274816788253;2:
> > I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.
>
> The argument that because they’ve been in every other Halo doesn’t really work. The Halo 5 BR is a different weapon than we had in Halo 3 and 4. All it does is lead to endless long range battles with mostly stagnation throughout the match.
>
> And Op you are talking about a well coordinated team running away with a match would be worse if BR starts were removed. This already happens with or without BR’s. I don’t think they will remove the BR starts because they’ve been in too long by this point, but I do hope that with Halo 6, if the BR is going to work on par with the H5 BR then they should definitely consider it for BTB.

That is what BTB is supposed to be and has been. There is enough CQC in H5 already.

> 2533274816788253;4:
> > 2533274863544717;3:
> > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.
> >
> > The argument that because they’ve been in every other Halo doesn’t really work. The Halo 5 BR is a different weapon than we had in Halo 3 and 4. All it does is lead to endless long range battles with mostly stagnation throughout the match.
> >
> > And Op you are talking about a well coordinated team running away with a match would be worse if BR starts were removed. This already happens with or without BR’s. I don’t think they will remove the BR starts because they’ve been in too long by this point, but I do hope that with Halo 6, if the BR is going to work on par with the H5 BR then they should definitely consider it for BTB.
>
> That is what BTB is supposed to be and has been. There is enough CQC in H5 already.

Seriously, we are supposed to only have long range battles where we are both stuck in our bases with very little ability to traverse to the other’s base? Wow, we remember BTB very differently. The RRR of the Halo 5 BR is the most it has ever been, and is too easy to use to negate vehicle play. Isn’t BTB all about vehicles as well? You can’t disagree that vehicles have been stunted in Halo 5.

> 2533274863544717;5:
> > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > 2533274863544717;3:
> > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.
> > >
> > > The argument that because they’ve been in every other Halo doesn’t really work. The Halo 5 BR is a different weapon than we had in Halo 3 and 4. All it does is lead to endless long range battles with mostly stagnation throughout the match.
> > >
> > > And Op you are talking about a well coordinated team running away with a match would be worse if BR starts were removed. This already happens with or without BR’s. I don’t think they will remove the BR starts because they’ve been in too long by this point, but I do hope that with Halo 6, if the BR is going to work on par with the H5 BR then they should definitely consider it for BTB.
> >
> > That is what BTB is supposed to be and has been. There is enough CQC in H5 already.
>
> Seriously, we are supposed to only have long range battles where we are both stuck in our bases with very little ability to traverse to the other’s base? Wow, we remember BTB very differently. The RRR of the Halo 5 BR is the most it has ever been, and is too easy to use to negate vehicle play. Isn’t BTB all about vehicles as well? You can’t disagree that vehicles have been stunted in Halo 5.

That is why I said they should buff the gun on the wart hog it give the driver more cover. But making BTB AR or pistol starts is not the answer. Also I never feel trapped in H5 btb. That boils down to individual game play and style.

> 2533274816788253;6:
> > 2533274863544717;5:
> > > 2533274816788253;4:
> > > > 2533274863544717;3:
> > > > > 2533274816788253;2:
> > > > > I tend to agree. I know there are those that want AR or pistol starts in BTB and their excuse is maps where made/tested with them but I say they should have made them with BR starts in mind. The maps are big and btb has pretty much always been BR starts. What they should do is just give gunners in vehicles a bit more cover or something because yeah it’s a bit to easy to take them out with a BR. Or maybe buff the gun in the warthog slightly because it does seem you can kill faster with a BR than a mounted machine gun and it really shouldn’t be that way.
> > > >
> > > > The argument that because they’ve been in every other Halo doesn’t really work. The Halo 5 BR is a different weapon than we had in Halo 3 and 4. All it does is lead to endless long range battles with mostly stagnation throughout the match.
> > > >
> > > > And Op you are talking about a well coordinated team running away with a match would be worse if BR starts were removed. This already happens with or without BR’s. I don’t think they will remove the BR starts because they’ve been in too long by this point, but I do hope that with Halo 6, if the BR is going to work on par with the H5 BR then they should definitely consider it for BTB.
> > >
> > > That is what BTB is supposed to be and has been. There is enough CQC in H5 already.
> >
> > Seriously, we are supposed to only have long range battles where we are both stuck in our bases with very little ability to traverse to the other’s base? Wow, we remember BTB very differently. The RRR of the Halo 5 BR is the most it has ever been, and is too easy to use to negate vehicle play. Isn’t BTB all about vehicles as well? You can’t disagree that vehicles have been stunted in Halo 5.
>
> That is why I said they should buff the gun on the wart hog it give the driver more cover. But making BTB AR or pistol starts is not the answer. Also I never feel trapped in H5 btb. That boils down to individual game play and style.

Buffing the turret on the wart hog won’t take care of the fact more than one player shooting said Warthog will destroy it at a rate that makes that Warthog useless.

I am not talking about trapped per se, but definitely a difficult time getting to the enemy base like on Viking. Very rarely does CTF on that map come out with one or the other team actually capping all three flags.

You and I will never agree. You like the BR starts. I don’t. I would prefer to play the maps the way that the forgers intended.

Oh yes, let’s not do something because of some doomsday scenario that you haven’t even seen proof of yet. Here’s an idea: Let’s try it out first in a trial period to test it out and then come a conclusion based on that instead of hypotheticals.

> 2727626560040591;8:
> Oh yes, let’s not do something because of some doomsday scenario that you haven’t even seen proof of yet. Here’s an idea: Let’s try it out first in a trial period to test it out and then come a conclusion based on that instead of hypotheticals.

Ok. But don’t blame me when you match a tryhard team that’ll steal all your weapons and vehicles and begin farming you while you only have an AR and Magnum to defend yourself.

> 2535421519140936;1:
> I’m gonna tell you this right now. Magnum starts will make BTB far worse than it already is. You wanna know why 343 won’t use Magnum starts for BTB? I’ll tell you. The number one reason 343 won’t put Magnum starts in BTB is because of the vehicles. Think about it. If you think farming in BTB is bad now, just think of what will happen if you spawn with a Magnum instead of a BR. A well coordinated tryhard team in BTB will make sure to completely stomp on their enemies and make sure they don’t get their hands on power weapons and vehicles. Imagine you’re playing a game of CTF on Viking and the enemy team grabs Spartan Laser. They take out their enemy’s Banshee, their Gauss Hog, and their Wraith. Then the Banshee that’s still up proceeds to completely destroy the enemy team along with their Gauss Hog and Wraith. They make sure to cap one flag and have the enemies guard their base. They see that their vehicles have spawned up and proceed to steal them. Then for 15 more minutes, they’ll farm the crap out of the other team. Except this time, they can’t fight back.
>
> See, at least with the BR, you can fight back against vehicles like the Warthog and the Banshee by teamshooting. Teashooting with the BR can do significant damage to vehicles. The Magnum can’t fight the vehicles at all even with teamshooting. Especially the Banshee. You try to teamshoot a Banshee with a Magnum, the Banshee pilot will laugh his butt off and then bomb the crap out of the enemies shooting him. I know what you’re thinking. " But there are BRs and Carbines on the map so you can still counter vehicles that way. " Not a bad argument. However, up against a sweaty team, they will make sure the team they’re up against don’t get their hands on weapons like that. A smart BTB team knows to steal as much weapons and vehicles from the enemy team as they can. Not only that, but most tryhard BTB teams know how to use the Magnum like pros so casual players will get completely dominated.
>
> I rest my case. BR starts are the best for BTB. Magnum starts would cause a lot of trouble. The farming would be a thousand times worse than it already is.

I agree that that would probably happen, but other not only Magnum starts that cause it. Halo 5’s spawn system is horrible, especially in Forge, and for the most part map weapon layouts are pretty bad too. Magnum starts would be amazing if they fixed those things, but they never will.

343i just need to make sure that they at least attempt to create a balanced BTB experience. The way that it works in Halo 5 is a joke and should be a bigger deal that it is. How’s is it acceptable that one of the biggest and most popular gamemodes in the series is an afterthought that gets zero direct Dev support. Balancing a game for 4v4 and only 4v4 sucks, and is very noticeable. Even in Warzone it feels shoehorned in, and that’s why, to me, even though there’s a decent amount of content in the game, it feels like the smallest Halo yet.

> 2533274800772611;10:
> > 2535421519140936;1:
> > I’m gonna tell you this right now. Magnum starts will make BTB far worse than it already is. You wanna know why 343 won’t use Magnum starts for BTB? I’ll tell you. The number one reason 343 won’t put Magnum starts in BTB is because of the vehicles. Think about it. If you think farming in BTB is bad now, just think of what will happen if you spawn with a Magnum instead of a BR. A well coordinated tryhard team in BTB will make sure to completely stomp on their enemies and make sure they don’t get their hands on power weapons and vehicles. Imagine you’re playing a game of CTF on Viking and the enemy team grabs Spartan Laser. They take out their enemy’s Banshee, their Gauss Hog, and their Wraith. Then the Banshee that’s still up proceeds to completely destroy the enemy team along with their Gauss Hog and Wraith. They make sure to cap one flag and have the enemies guard their base. They see that their vehicles have spawned up and proceed to steal them. Then for 15 more minutes, they’ll farm the crap out of the other team. Except this time, they can’t fight back.
> >
> > See, at least with the BR, you can fight back against vehicles like the Warthog and the Banshee by teamshooting. Teashooting with the BR can do significant damage to vehicles. The Magnum can’t fight the vehicles at all even with teamshooting. Especially the Banshee. You try to teamshoot a Banshee with a Magnum, the Banshee pilot will laugh his butt off and then bomb the crap out of the enemies shooting him. I know what you’re thinking. " But there are BRs and Carbines on the map so you can still counter vehicles that way. " Not a bad argument. However, up against a sweaty team, they will make sure the team they’re up against don’t get their hands on weapons like that. A smart BTB team knows to steal as much weapons and vehicles from the enemy team as they can. Not only that, but most tryhard BTB teams know how to use the Magnum like pros so casual players will get completely dominated.
> >
> > I rest my case. BR starts are the best for BTB. Magnum starts would cause a lot of trouble. The farming would be a thousand times worse than it already is.
>
> I agree that that would probably happen, but other not only Magnum starts that cause it. Halo 5’s spawn system is horrible, especially in Forge, and for the most part map weapon layouts are pretty bad too. Magnum starts would be amazing if they fixed those things, but they never will.
>
> 343i just need to make sure that they at least attempt to create a balanced BTB experience. The way that it works in Halo 5 is a joke and should be a bigger deal that it is. How’s is it acceptable that one of the biggest and most popular gamemodes in the series is an afterthought that gets zero direct Dev support. Balancing a game for 4v4 and only 4v4 sucks, and is very noticeable. Even in Warzone it feels shoehorned in, and that’s why, to me, even though there’s a decent amount of content in the game, it feels like the smallest Halo yet.

Yeah I agree too. The spawns are terrible. Another problem is a lot of these forgers who make the maps aren’t full on Arena/Warzone players and don’t know how to completely balance things out. Let’s just hope BTB in Halo 6 is more like Halo 3’s BTB.

> 2535421519140936;9:
> Ok. But don’t blame me when you match a tryhard team that’ll steal all your weapons and vehicles and begin farming you while you only have an AR and Magnum to defend yourself.

Why would I blame you? It would be a trial period so I would expect anything to happen.

> 2727626560040591;12:
> > 2535421519140936;9:
> > Ok. But don’t blame me when you match a tryhard team that’ll steal all your weapons and vehicles and begin farming you while you only have an AR and Magnum to defend yourself.
>
> Why would I blame you? It would be a trial period so I would expect anything to happen.

The last two times we got a trial period, they both ended up being permanent.

Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?

> 2533274883849234;14:
> Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?

Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.

> 2535421519140936;15:
> > 2533274883849234;14:
> > Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?
>
> Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.

Yeah, I doubt that.

> 2533274883849234;16:
> > 2535421519140936;15:
> > > 2533274883849234;14:
> > > Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?
> >
> > Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.
>
> Yeah, I doubt that.

Yeah that sounds like a you problem. Not a me problem.

> 2535421519140936;17:
> > 2533274883849234;16:
> > > 2535421519140936;15:
> > > > 2533274883849234;14:
> > > > Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?
> > >
> > > Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.
> >
> > Yeah, I doubt that.
>
> Yeah that sounds like a you problem. Not a me problem.

Really? Because you’re the one presenting an argument with no evidence backing it up, just random claims.

> 2533274883849234;18:
> > 2535421519140936;17:
> > > 2533274883849234;16:
> > > > 2535421519140936;15:
> > > > > 2533274883849234;14:
> > > > > Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?
> > > >
> > > > Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.
> > >
> > > Yeah, I doubt that.
> >
> > Yeah that sounds like a you problem. Not a me problem.
>
> Really? Because you’re the one presenting an argument with no evidence backing it up, just random claims.

Well if you want, you could always get your guys in Ready Up Live to face a team of Dominated, Devastated or Allegiance in BTB with Magnum starts. See how that goes for you.

> 2535421519140936;19:
> > 2533274883849234;18:
> > > 2535421519140936;17:
> > > > 2533274883849234;16:
> > > > > 2535421519140936;15:
> > > > > > 2533274883849234;14:
> > > > > > Nice, what-if scenario. Was it tested in a state of the art simulation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes it was and the results were exactly what I predicted would happen.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I doubt that.
> > >
> > > Yeah that sounds like a you problem. Not a me problem.
> >
> > Really? Because you’re the one presenting an argument with no evidence backing it up, just random claims.
>
> Well if you want, you could always get your guys in Ready Up Live to face a team of Dominated, Devastated or Allegiance in BTB with Magnum starts. See how that goes for you.

Yeah, notice how you’re being specific with the team composition instead of simple creating a custom lobby with randoms