Seriously the bloom and increased damaged make the magnum the most broken weapon in the history of Halo. If you get into a magnum duel with someone its down to randomness who wins because the bloom is that stupid on it. GET RID OF THE -Yoink- BLOOM ALTOGETHER 343!!!
While bloom and damage are the two main culprits in Halo Reach when it comes to making games unbalanced, you’ve forgot that Halo Reach also has a much higher aim-assist when it comes to hitscan bullets compared to Halo 3.
In short, Reach will stay the way it is with minor adjustments in different playlists - If you don’t like it, stop complaining, and play another game. Maybe Halo 3.
- The Bloom on the pistol is only increased to 85% in THREE Playists
- The Anniversary Pistol doesn’t have a real bloom effect, just a Bullet Spread recreation.
- The Pistols damage in not increased in anything other than Anniversary.
> 1. The Bloom on the pistol is only increased to 85% in THREE Playists
> 2. The Anniversary Pistol doesn’t have a real bloom effect, just a Bullet Spread recreation.
> 3. The Pistols damage in not increased in anything other than Anniversary.
Anniversary pistol actualy does have bloom… Dont ask me why but now it has bloom+spread…
> > 1. The Bloom on the pistol is only increased to 85% in THREE Playists
> > 2. The Anniversary Pistol doesn’t have a real bloom effect, just a Bullet Spread recreation.
> > 3. The Pistols damage in not increased in anything other than Anniversary.
>
> Anniversary pistol actualy does have bloom… Dont ask me why but now it has bloom+spread…
The bloom is just a visual representation of the bullet spread. If 343 took away bloom the pistol will still be as inaccurate as before.
> The bloom is just a visual representation of the bullet spread. If 343 took away bloom the pistol will still be as inaccurate as before.
…I’ll go ahead and fix this for you.
“A blooming reticle is the visual representation of bloom (which is the growth of bullet spread with your rate of fire.) If 343 took away bloom, the pistol would be as inaccurate as before, if you had only taken one shot but without the delay needed to keep your perfect accuracy. Meaning, you can go -Yoink- up with the Anniversary pistol and wreck the game, as the Halo 1 pistol did. I mean seriously, 343 has to award themselves special moron points for this one. You take a game like Halo 1, which has a notorious balance problem and you take its worst offender and slap it into something which can hardly hold itself together as is. Bungie may have been trying to trash the hotel room on their way out of this franchise, but trying to burn the whole place down certainly isn’t the way to clean up the mess.”
I expanded it a bit, but I hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Pistol would be a lot better without bloom or bullet spread. As is, it is incredibly unreliable.
We know, it’s one of the reasons why the Anniversary playlist populations are so low.
> While bloom and damage are the two main culprits in Halo Reach when it comes to making games unbalanced, you’ve forgot that Halo Reach also has a much higher aim-assist when it comes to hitscan bullets compared to Halo 3.
>
> In short, Reach will stay the way it is with minor adjustments in different playlists - If you don’t like it, stop complaining, and play another game. Maybe Halo 3.
Up until yesterday I believed this as well, but in actuality, at least with the ZB DMR vs BR, the bullet mag on the BR is much greater. The regular DMR has a more effective bullet magnetism range than the ZBDMR, thus making it, actually easier to hit your target even when the reticule is at rest compared to the ZB DMR.
I also noticed this with the pistol as well. While the 100% pistol seemed slightly more inconsistent that the 100% DMR when the reticule was red, the ZB pistol seems to be even more inconsistent (although I don’t have proof of this as it could just be in my head). In all honestly it’s kind of frustrating because IMO if the reticule is red you should get a registered shot, just make it so that you have to have better aim to get a red reticule. As I personally rely on when the reticule turns red to fire my shot, thus making me miss a lot with the ZB DMR and any form of the pistol. The 100% and 85% DMR, if it’s red and you’re not “spamming” you got a hit, so this worked out, but with the others I mentioned, it doesn’t always.
See This Thread for a little more info, as Thy Reaper just educated me on the topic yesterday.
Also IMO in 85% bloom, the 4SK pistol perfectly matches the 5SK DMR. Although, IMO a 4SK ZB pistol with the RoF of the CEA pistol would probably be best for ZB (I haven’ tested the kill times on the second part; just rough estimates)
> “You take a game like Halo 1, which has a notorious balance problem”
you clearly have no idea of what balance is. Halo was never about slow gameplay, it was a medium paced first person shooter, the power of the pistol produced fast kill times that weren’t overpowered by the other weapons of the game (shotty, sniper, rockets, etc…)
> > “You take a game like Halo 1, which has a notorious balance problem”
>
> you clearly have no idea of what balance is. Halo was never about slow gameplay, it was a medium paced first person shooter, the power of the pistol produced fast kill times that weren’t overpowered by the other weapons of the game (shotty, sniper, rockets, etc…)
Why should I possibly believe you when all you have to say is “the Pistol wasn’t overpowered?” Did the “nya-uh, yah-huh” games of your childhood teach you nothing about mindless contradiction?
The Halo 1 pistol WAS overpowered. The very basic fact of it was that someone in development doubled it’s damage in spite of what other developers wanted. And that change, by it’s very nature, couldn’t be overwritten, so Halo 1 shipped with something that, by Bungie’s very own intentions, was broken. And even in the unassuming course of gameplay it was balls-out stupid. The AR couldn’t compete. The Plasma Rifle couldn’t compete. The Needler couldn’t compete. The scorpion couldn’t compete. Certain weapons (ex. Sniper, Rocket, Shotgun) still had niche uses, but their rudimentary functionality doesn’t mean that the game was well and good. Fundamentally, it was unbalanced by every standard the FPS genre had a the time.
To educate yourself on this subject (since I assume your introductory lessons in FPS gameplay were with Halo itself) play Unreal Tournament 3. There you have a balanced game where weapon choice isn’t dictated by the gross imbalances of the sandbox. Even hopping in a vehicle is a tactical choice, rather than serving basis of the one winning strategy of any particular BTB map. So when I say “the Pistol is overpowerd”, I’m not just whistling Dixie since I damn well know what a balanced game should be.
> > > “You take a game like Halo 1, which has a notorious balance problem”
> >
> > you clearly have no idea of what balance is. Halo was never about slow gameplay, it was a medium paced first person shooter, the power of the pistol produced fast kill times that weren’t overpowered by the other weapons of the game (shotty, sniper, rockets, etc…)
>
> Why should I possibly believe you when all you have to say is “the Pistol wasn’t overpowered?” Did the “nya-uh, yah-huh” games of your childhood teach you nothing about mindless contradiction?
>
> The Halo 1 pistol WAS overpowered. The very basic fact of it was that someone in development doubled it’s damage in spite of what other developers wanted. And that change, by it’s very nature, couldn’t be overwritten, so Halo 1 shipped with something that, by Bungie’s very own intentions, was broken. And even in the unassuming course of gameplay it was balls-out stupid. The AR couldn’t compete. The Plasma Rifle couldn’t compete. The Needler couldn’t compete. The scorpion couldn’t compete. Certain weapons (ex. Sniper, Rocket, Shotgun) still had niche uses, but their rudimentary functionality doesn’t mean that the game was well and good. Fundamentally, it was unbalanced by every standard the FPS genre had a the time.
>
> To educate yourself on this subject (since I assume your introductory lessons in FPS gameplay were with Halo itself) play Unreal Tournament 3. There you have a balanced game where weapon choice isn’t dictated by the gross imbalances of the sandbox. Even hopping in a vehicle is a tactical choice, rather than serving basis of the one winning strategy.
it doesn’t mean a damn thing what the developers think what is right and wrong in terms of balance. Ask any of the professional Halo players on the circuit right now that started their roots from CE and they will all tell you the same thing, that Halo 1 was the most balanced most competitive game of the entire franchise. Halo has always revolved around a utilitarian weapon that is efficient to use in all situations. The AR still had value, hell you only needed 2-3 bullets and beatdown to kill someone, the plasma rifle was -Yoinking!- awesome it stunned players and obscured their screen (an effect I have no idea why they got rid of), as well as the majority of other weapons definitely all held value, but the main reason Halo 1 exploded as a cultural multiplayer phenomenon was because the pistol was easy and powerful.
What seems more balanced to you? A DMR with a random bloom factor in which range and map position is a major issue seeing as spammers are more often than not rewarded. Or a pistol where bloom and spread play no role and every player is positioned on an equal footing.
Oh and I have played Unreal Tourney, CS 1.5 ,and many other PC games as well so Halo MP isn’t my first rodeo sonny.
> > > “You take a game like Halo 1, which has a notorious balance problem”
> >
> > you clearly have no idea of what balance is. Halo was never about slow gameplay, it was a medium paced first person shooter, the power of the pistol produced fast kill times that weren’t overpowered by the other weapons of the game (shotty, sniper, rockets, etc…)
>
> Why should I possibly believe you when all you have to say is “the Pistol wasn’t overpowered?” Did the “nya-uh, yah-huh” games of your childhood teach you nothing about mindless contradiction?
>
> The Halo 1 pistol WAS overpowered. The very basic fact of it was that someone in development doubled it’s damage in spite of what other developers wanted. And that change, by it’s very nature, couldn’t be overwritten, so Halo 1 shipped with something that, by Bungie’s very own intentions, was broken. And even in the unassuming course of gameplay it was balls-out stupid. The AR couldn’t compete. The Plasma Rifle couldn’t compete. The Needler couldn’t compete. The scorpion couldn’t compete. Certain weapons (ex. Sniper, Rocket, Shotgun) still had niche uses, but their rudimentary functionality doesn’t mean that the game was well and good. Fundamentally, it was unbalanced by every standard the FPS genre had a the time.
>
> To educate yourself on this subject (since I assume your introductory lessons in FPS gameplay were with Halo itself) play Unreal Tournament 3. There you have a balanced game where weapon choice isn’t dictated by the gross imbalances of the sandbox. Even hopping in a vehicle is a tactical choice, rather than serving basis of the one winning strategy of any particular BTB map. So when I say “the Pistol is overpowerd”, I’m not just whistling Dixie since I damn well know what a balanced game should be.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
It doesn’t matter how much the developers say that it was “overpowered.” The pistol worked with the sandbox. Unless you were completely braindead, you weren’t going to lose to a pistol CQC with an AR/Plasma Rifle/Plasma Pistol, or a pistol long range with a sniper. And I hope to God that you aren’t losing to a pistol CQC with a shotgun or rocket launcher.
Besides, what is the point of the comparison to Unreal Tournament 3, which is of a completely different gameplay style than Halo CE?
This is coming from a guy who has won national championships in Counter Strike, which in no way promotes any sort of Halo skill whatsoever.
> You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
>
> It doesn’t matter how much the developers say that it was “overpowered.” The pistol worked with the sandbox. Unless you were completely braindead, you weren’t going to lose to a pistol CQC with an AR/Plasma Rifle/Plasma Pistol, or a pistol long range with a sniper. And I hope to God that you aren’t losing to a pistol CQC with a shotgun or rocket launcher.
No, I’m winning most of those fights as the pistol wielder (well except for some of the sniper and rocket-battles.) I wouldn’t be so bold to call out ignorance when you’re not even aware of the basic assumptions you’re making to support your argument.
And as a further point, look at your post again and tell me exactly when you say anything about balance. It’s all well and good to say what may happen in certain, ill-defined, situations, but describing the relative frequencies of what actually does happens, and further relating that to some sort of standard which might bear witness to it’s quality, is something you do need to work on for this discussion to have any chance of progress since I might then be able to see your point that the pistol does not win a disproportionate number of it’s fights relative to it’s intended role (as seen by the arrangement of the sandbox and by it’s performance in the campaign.)
> Besides, what is the point of the comparison to Unreal Tournament 3, which is of a completely different gameplay style than Halo CE?
>
> This is coming from a guy who has won national championships in Counter Strike, which in no way promotes any sort of Halo skill whatsoever.
Here’s something that’s going to rock your world: Halo multiplayer is based directly off of Unreal Tournament’s multiplayer. The gametypes, the spawning system (player, powerup, and weapon), it’s all, with rare exception (vehicles, assault, and oddball) been ripped straight from UT and set to Bungie’s campaign health model as, originally, a throw-away feature to help make the game more replayable. And even then, movement speed and jump height and even the bloody fact that you can describe player movement by those two terms is reasonably close to UT, at least compared to most any other game on the market. Pacing isn’t tremendously different either, with the 3 shot shock rifle not veering too far away from a 5 shot DMR, 4 shot BR, or 3 shot pistol. And 1-2 shot sniper rifles are bang-on.
And what’s more, nearly every single major gametype Bungie has added to Halo since CE, (besides infection and griffball mainly) has been taken straight from UT. Invasion, firefight, headhunter, nearly everything of substance that has entered competitive multiplayer was first expressed by Epic and immediately followed up by Bungie, bringing the two together in a far closer fit than their divergent gameplay mechanics would separate them. That’s only possible because the two are fundamentally compatible, such that Assault in one came can easily become Invasion in the other with precious little done to compensate for whatever meaningful differences there are between UT and Halo.
Where you have those differences are in the features. Grenades, shields, melee, secondary fire, the sorts of things that establish the exact flow of combat, and decide the strategies that are used within it, but don’t fundamentally change the nature of the game just as AA’s or Dual Wielding don’t fundamentally make Halo Reach or Halo 2, respectively, incomparable with the previous game(s). Certainly things have changed, certainly there are some gameplay differences, but there’s still value in comparing the games because the absolute core of gameplay is still the same between them. Even between UT and Halo CE.
And absolutely -Yoinking!- regardless of everything I’ve said here, balance is not a mystical quality that’s specific to each and every game. Even between Mechwarrior and Shogo, there’s common ground in the simple action of using a weapon to shoot someone else. And therefore there’s always room for discussion.
I’ve put this in the simplest terms I can and I’m sure that you will neither see my point or explain yourself with the necessary argumentation for my entrenched opinion to budge. I see the two games as fundamentally the same. You do not. I see the pistol as unbalanced. You do not. It’s a matter of personal experience and opinion so let’s leave it at that.
> describing the relative frequencies of what actually does happens, and further relating that to some sort of standard which might bear witness to it’s quality, is something you do need to work on for this discussion to have any chance of progress.
You must not have played enough Halo 1 to understand the “relative frequencies” of the sandbox your describing. Halo CE worked amazingly well because it was dumbed down to a simplistic formula that we all love and know is Halo. No equipment, no armor abilities, just simple gun play with a utilitarian weapon at the middle of it all. It reinforced the idea that weapon pick up wasn’t such a dramatic aspect of the game, and it shouldn’t be. The weapon you spawn with should be able to counter any other weapon on the map. Look at how stupid Halo 2 was with the SMG starts and Halo 3 & Reach with AR starts. A player shouldn’t have to scout the map for a utilitarian weapon to utilize, they should be given it right off the bat.
> Here’s something that’s going to rock your world: Halo multiplayer is based directly off of Unreal Tournament’s multiplayer.
And the rest of your post just loses all credibility when your naive enough to think Halo and Unreal are one in the same. Stay on topic and not compare Halo to other games.
> > describing the relative frequencies of what actually does happens, and further relating that to some sort of standard which might bear witness to it’s quality, is something you do need to work on for this discussion to have any chance of progress.
>
> You must not have played enough Halo 1 to understand the “relative frequencies” of the sandbox your describing. Halo CE worked amazingly well because it was dumbed down to a simplistic formula that we all love and know is Halo.
And you do realize that stating a very personal opinion is not the same as providing a worthy argument? No, of course not. You may like the pistol but don’t distort the truth just to avoid using as troublesome a word as “unbalanced.” Halo CE may be that yet you’re still free to enjoy the arguably improved gameplay as you will. I have no problem with that, but senselessly bastardized terminology I do since it makes valuable comparisons with other franchises needlessly difficult.
> > Here’s something that’s going to rock your world: Halo multiplayer is based directly off of Unreal Tournament’s multiplayer.
>
> And the rest of your post just loses all credibility when your naive enough to think Halo and Unreal are one in the same.
Like I said, arguing with you is pointless. You’ve made up your mind, as have I, so let’s leave it there.
> And you do realize that stating an opinion is not the same as providing an argument? No, of course you don’t. You may like the pistol but don’t distort the truth just to avoid using as troublesome a word as “unbalanced.” Halo CE may be that yet you’re still free to enjoy the “improved” gameplay as you will. I have no problem with that, but self-deluding terminology I do.
Well, stating an educated opinion is another thing, and it provides more context to the argument at hand. Your simply just countering my argument by stating I have no argument at all (seems a little redundant to me). Seeing as I have invested over 1000+ hours into every Halo game in the franchise, talked with professionals, and followed Halo religiously for over 10 years, yes I do believe I’m entitled to my argument Maybe you should say something relevant that pertains to the gameplay itself?
> Like I said, arguing with you is pointless. You’ve made up your mind, as have I, though I will say that at least until now I’ve been adult enough to make my point without soiling myself with crass insults. Perhaps with time you’ll grow up a bit, but for now I’ll leave you in your crib for someone else to clean up after.
Adult enough? Crass insults? Sorry for sticking to the topic at hand and not trying to compare apples with oranges, but feel free to cower away without adding any real depth to the thread being discussed.
> > And you do realize that stating an opinion is not the same as providing an argument? No, of course you don’t. You may like the pistol but don’t distort the truth just to avoid using as troublesome a word as “unbalanced.” Halo CE may be that yet you’re still free to enjoy the “improved” gameplay as you will. I have no problem with that, but self-deluding terminology I do.
>
> Well, stating an educated opinion is another thing, and it provides more context to the argument at hand. Your simply just countering my argument by stating I have no argument at all (seems a little redundant to me). Seeing as I have invested over 1000+ hours into every Halo game in the franchise, talked with professionals, and followed Halo religiously for over 10 years, yes I do believe I’m entitled to my argument Maybe you should say something relevant that pertains to the gameplay itself?
Such as I don’t feel that the sandbox is balanced with respect to both vehicles and other weapons? It pushes them into uncomfortable niche status. The pistol counts for more than it should be as I do, in fact, win more fights than I feel is reasonable. What more do I need to say to make this less about personalities and more about gaming.
For christs sake, I’ve been making an argument about gameplay and you’ve simply chosen to respect what few bits you dimly feel are relevant to your own narrow opinion as if you were the sole part of the discussion. Yes, I rambled on a lot about something not immediately covered by Bungie but as I’ve incredulously needed to argue there’s something to be learned even in what doesn’t carry the Halo brand name. Such as how you do balance a game, and what better way than to say “look at this thing that already exists. Play that and know what I’m talking about” rather than having to elaborate on the very most inane of particulars to get the point across without demonstration. Which, you, of course, rattled on against in a largely contradictory fashion, which I supplied direct arguments against, to then say “oh, you don’t have a point” when that in itself doesn’t have any connection to the discussion at hand.
> > Like I said, arguing with you is pointless. You’ve made up your mind, as have I, though I will say that at least until now I’ve been adult enough to make my point without soiling myself with crass insults. Perhaps with time you’ll grow up a bit, but for now I’ll leave you in your crib for someone else to clean up after.
>
> Adult enough? Crass insults? Sorry for sticking to the topic at hand and not trying to compare apples with oranges, but feel free to cower away without adding any real depth to the thread being discussed.
I’m sorry, I over reacted with something profoundly moronic when the as-revised statement was as far as I needed to go. Of course, dealing with obstinance such as your own is frustrating, to say the least, and there is absolutely no doubt that you feel the same, and worse, about me. Neither of us, then, can contribute anything that will turn the opinion of the other and so it’s best to end it before more time is wasted on this by either party. I’ve made that point too, though of course your selective reading skills perhaps passed that one by as well.
So, it’s that’s simple. Unless you want to make this thread more about me in a great showing of hypocrisy, let’s just both shut the -Yoink- up and put a stop to this here. Or with your own “last word” filled with necessary rebukes which I bet is sure to come, but here’s hoping that something as simple as “to each his own” can be what this all amounts to.