Lowering my expectations for Halo Infinite

Games Halo Infinite
1

After playing the beta and flights, and reading through some of the posts here; I’m lowering my expectations for Halo Infinite. The PvP gameplay is OK and Big Team Battle is good. But like the other Halo games, Halo Infinite PvP still feels dated. Now I’m sure that when Dec 08, 2021 comes around there will be a huge spike in the Halo player base. But this surge will probably drop-off relatively quickly as players return back to games that feel more contemporary. Again, leaving Halo only to a select few. Sadly it would appear that some here would preferred that way.

[Edit] Regretfully parts of this thread have become the proverbial Can’t See the Forest for the Trees.

2

I’m seeing a lot of hype outside of these forums, but hype doesn’t retain players. I don’t think we’ll see the kind of drop we did with H4 and H5 though. I’m optimistic.

3

i dont know what people classify as dated now a days. I seems “modern” only means low ttk, all player power focused and high octane gameplay. None of that makes a game modern and imo, interesting given that experience is a dime a dozen in the current shooter market. At the end of the day, the shooter market needs a wake up call and the split gate popularity infers it. People want something new, and sometimes new is bringing back an older style and updating it. Thats what infinite did. Do I think people should lower expectations for any title? 100% but not because its “dated”

4

On the contrary, I think the point you bring up on other “contemporary” games is exactly why halo will do well. Just about every other shooter these days is so similar to one another that they’re basically competing for each others’ playerbases. Meanwhile it’s been so long without a game like halo that infinite is suddenly a huge, refreshing addition to a market that has grown stale as of late.

You can say certain elements are “dated”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be refreshed and modernised. For example we can look at overwatch, one of the biggest shooters of last gen. It had a lot of mechanics that may have been considered “dated”. No sprint or slide, no clamber, no ADS, no unlocking weapons or making loadouts, etc. Despite all that, it was one of the biggest FPS alive for years.

I think halo infinite could pull that off. By being itself and not following trends, it sets itself apart from the competition and carves a niche into today’s fps genre which is otherwise just BRs, tactical shooters, and moven’t shooters. With the same aiming mechanics, same or similar weapons, classes or heroes, etc.

What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.

5

> 2533274866989456;2:
> I’m seeing a lot of hype outside of these forums, but hype doesn’t retain players. I don’t think we’ll see the kind of drop we did with H4 and H5 though. I’m optimistic.

I want to be optimistic. Hopefully the campaign will be good.

6

> 2533274840624875;3:
> i dont know what people classify as dated now a days. I seems “modern” only means low ttk, all player power focused and high octane gameplay. None of that makes a game modern and imo, interesting given that experience is a dime a dozen in the current shooter market. At the end of the day, the shooter market needs a wake up call and the split gate popularity infers it. People want something new, and sometimes new is bringing back an older style and updating it. Thats what infinite did. Do I think people should lower expectations for any title? 100% but not because its “dated”

“At the end of the day, the shooter market needs a wake up call and the split gate popularity infers it.”

  • Agree

“People want something new, and sometimes new is bringing back an older style and updating it.”

  • And that’s the point, I just don’t feel it’s been updated enough. But time will tell.
7

> 2533274826593253;6:
> > 2533274840624875;3:
> > i dont know what people classify as dated now a days. I seems “modern” only means low ttk, all player power focused and high octane gameplay. None of that makes a game modern and imo, interesting given that experience is a dime a dozen in the current shooter market. At the end of the day, the shooter market needs a wake up call and the split gate popularity infers it. People want something new, and sometimes new is bringing back an older style and updating it. Thats what infinite did. Do I think people should lower expectations for any title? 100% but not because its “dated”
>
> “At the end of the day, the shooter market needs a wake up call and the split gate popularity infers it.”
>
> - Agree
>
> “People want something new, and sometimes new is bringing back an older style and updating it.”
>
> - And that’s the point, I just don’t feel it’s been updated enough. But time will tell.

splitgate itsnt new and heavily uses old systems (generally pulled from halo). Its popularity more so goes against your point. Updating does not mean redesigns in the contexts of games. It means refining. Sprint has been refined to fit halos playstyle better, movement abilities have been refined to play with halos combat better. Maps have been made to play with halos combat better. BTB has been refined to be its own actual experience while also not iompacting halos combat negatively.

Nothing has to be “new,” it has to be refined and released in functional (you would be surprised how far just that goes) and fulfillinf state (whats there has to be decent in the context of map and mode variety). Given Halos combat style in itself can be considered “new” in the context of the current gaming landscape, everything else just needs to be refined and good.

Again, lower your expectations purely for the fact that high expectations ALWAYS lead to disappointment, regardless of the product.

8

There’s a general consensus among fans and critics that Halo’s rapidly declining popularity in every game that followed 3 had to do with the games growing further and further away from the unique experience of Halo.

Reach for starters, was a very different game as it was a test bed for several things that would be implemented into Destiny. But Halo 4 and 5 both tried too hard to emulate other games looking for ways to “modernize” Halo. Halo 4 was basically a hybrid of Halo and Call of Duty, while Halo 5 tried to push the, at the time “modern”, trend of enhanced mobility into the series.

Halo Infinite is stepping backwards, yes, but it’s looking at what made Halo unique. In 2007 Halo was still successful without the need for all the bells and whistles of “modern” custom class based shooters. And today MCC has grown to surpass Halo 5 by a large margin, proving that the majority still prefers Halo as a more stripped down style of game.

Infinite is doing a stellar job at not only dialing things back to a more memorable gameplay loop, but trying to create new experiences the way the original trilogy did, by expanding on the sandbox itself instead of pumping the player full of new inherent abilities. Equipment’s evolutions in Infinite is a clear indicator of this. It’s not just Halo 3’s equipment, but a whole new version of it that addresses some of the shortcomings of H3’s system. The weapon sandbox itself is also a great example, focusing more on providing a unique gameplay experience with each weapon’s functionality and role. I love Infinite’s sandbox for the most part because of this. I’ll take a world where the Sniper, Shock Rifle, and Skewer play the sniper roles to one where it’s the Sniper, Beam Rifle, and Binary (especially H4’s Binary)

9

Games don’t have to have the newest mechanics, graphics, etc to keep a crowd. All a game has to do is captivate an audience and new people usually swing in on their own. I will stay optimistic and keep my expectations where they are (within reason and not blowing it out of the water).

Cause I’ve heard a lot more good than bad, but honestly that’s what people come to forums to do largely, complain or point out all of the bad while barely highlighting any of the good. And we of the forums both here and on reddit are likely barely even a sliver of the actual numbers of people that make up the community.

10

> 2533274866536985;4:
> On the contrary, I think the point you bring up on other “contemporary” games is exactly why halo will do well. Just about every other shooter these days is so similar to one another that they’re basically competing for each others’ playerbases. Meanwhile it’s been so long without a game like halo that infinite is suddenly a huge, refreshing addition to a market that has grown stale as of late.
>
> You can say certain elements are “dated”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be refreshed and modernised. For example we can look at overwatch, one of the biggest shooters of last gen. It had a lot of mechanics that may have been considered “dated”. No sprint or slide, no clamber, no ADS, no unlocking weapons or making loadouts, etc. Despite all that, it was one of the biggest FPS alive for years.
>
> I think halo infinite could pull that off. By being itself and not following trends, it sets itself apart from the competition and carves a niche into today’s fps genre which is otherwise just BRs, tactical shooters, and moven’t shooters. With the same aiming mechanics, same or similar weapons, classes or heroes, etc.
>
> What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.

“… and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways.”

Oh [insert audible sigh here]. That’s a big one for me. The constant struggle between PvE versus PvP, and the search for the mythical unicorn of PvP balance. I consider Halo as kind of the gold standard of PvP, but it still feels dated. Going into a match in 2021 and not being able to sprint and or have a cooldown is completely irritating. I can understand that some may want that for a nostalgic sense of competitiveness. But ultimately it boils down to fun. To be clear, I’m not telling anyone how they should or should not enjoy a game… I just think that the more people find a game fun , the more people will play that game. And that’s my concern, by trying to keep Halo like the Halo of yore, it will end up only being played by a select few.

11

> 2533274810177460;8:
> There’s a general consensus among fans and critics that Halo’s rapidly declining popularity in every game that followed 3 had to do with the games growing further and further away from the unique experience of Halo.
>
> Reach for starters, was a very different game as it was a test bed for several things that would be implemented into Destiny. But Halo 4 and 5 both tried too hard to emulate other games looking for ways to “modernize” Halo. Halo 4 was basically a hybrid of Halo and Call of Duty, while Halo 5 tried to push the, at the time “modern”, trend of enhanced mobility into the series.
>
> Halo Infinite is stepping backwards, yes, but it’s looking at what made Halo unique. In 2007 Halo was still successful without the need for all the bells and whistles of “modern” custom class based shooters. And today MCC has grown to surpass Halo 5 by a large margin, proving that the majority still prefers Halo as a more stripped down style of game.
>
> Infinite is doing a stellar job at not only dialing things back to a more memorable gameplay loop, but trying to create new experiences the way the original trilogy did, by expanding on the sandbox itself instead of pumping the player full of new inherent abilities. Equipment’s evolutions in Infinite is a clear indicator of this. It’s not just Halo 3’s equipment, but a whole new version of it that addresses some of the shortcomings of H3’s system. The weapon sandbox itself is also a great example, focusing more on providing a unique gameplay experience with each weapon’s functionality and role. I love Infinite’s sandbox for the most part because of this. I’ll take a world where the Sniper, Shock Rifle, and Skewer play the sniper roles to one where it’s the Sniper, Beam Rifle, and Binary (especially H4’s Binary)

Heavily agree.

12

> 2533274866536985;4:
> What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.

This is the truth. I agree with your entire post.

> 2533274810177460;8:
> Halo Infinite is stepping backwards, yes, but it’s looking at what made Halo unique. In 2007 Halo was still successful without the need for all the bells and whistles of “modern” custom class based shooters. And today MCC has grown to surpass Halo 5 by a large margin, proving that the majority still prefers Halo as a more stripped down style of game.

Yep, that’s why 343 called Halo Infinite a “Spiritual reboot” and said they are going back to the roots.

13

> 2533274866536985;4:
> On the contrary, I think the point you bring up on other “contemporary” games is exactly why halo will do well. Just about every other shooter these days is so similar to one another that they’re basically competing for each others’ playerbases. Meanwhile it’s been so long without a game like halo that infinite is suddenly a huge, refreshing addition to a market that has grown stale as of late.
>
> You can say certain elements are “dated”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be refreshed and modernised. For example we can look at overwatch, one of the biggest shooters of last gen. It had a lot of mechanics that may have been considered “dated”. No sprint or slide, no clamber, no ADS, no unlocking weapons or making loadouts, etc. Despite all that, it was one of the biggest FPS alive for years.
>
> I think halo infinite could pull that off. By being itself and not following trends, it sets itself apart from the competition and carves a niche into today’s fps genre which is otherwise just BRs, tactical shooters, and moven’t shooters. With the same aiming mechanics, same or similar weapons, classes or heroes, etc.
>
> What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.

You already wrote down, what i was thinking, great post.

(i don’t want to be like an “eIitist” or something with my statement, but maybe it goes a bit in that direction, sorry for that) I think the sophisiticated gamer (wich is maybe oversaturated from the Shooters on the market at the moment, wich are partial really simular and/or boring/bad) will enjoy and appreciate Infinite. Halo is an unique type of game wich almost doesn’t exist anymore (arena-shooter) and because the market is flooded with pretty generic stuff, Halo can stand out almost more than ever before. Maybe it will not have player counts like CoD or Counter-Strike, but i think it doesn’t have to and will be more successful than H4 and H5 together. (And personally i don’t ask for more)

14

what? what did you even want? its going back to what the players loved and made it popular while still adding new stuff. I didnt even know anyones expectations were high considering the not so good trailer they released for the campaign was worrying. Im genuinely curious what made you feel it was “dated”. Cod is dated since its the same thing every year but its still strong and same with battlefield although I’m only talking about the gunplay (the disasters are AWESOME) so what games are you comparing halo to that makes it feel dated?

15

> 2533274907398117;14:
> what? what did you even want? its going back to what the players loved and made it popular while still adding new stuff. I didnt even know anyones expectations were high considering the not so good trailer they released for the campaign was worrying. Im genuinely curious what made you feel it was “dated”. Cod is dated since its the same thing every year but its still strong and same with battlefield although I’m only talking about the gunplay (the disasters are AWESOME) so what games are you comparing halo to that makes it feel dated?

To be fair, Halo hasn’t really innovated since Reach arguably, sprint/clamber/slide are all just generic mechanics that make it feel like every other shooter, if 343i had actually been focusing on creating new mechanics/ideas then at least we could argue they were original.

16

> 2533274987139949;13:
> > 2533274866536985;4:
> > On the contrary, I think the point you bring up on other “contemporary” games is exactly why halo will do well. Just about every other shooter these days is so similar to one another that they’re basically competing for each others’ playerbases. Meanwhile it’s been so long without a game like halo that infinite is suddenly a huge, refreshing addition to a market that has grown stale as of late.
> >
> > You can say certain elements are “dated”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be refreshed and modernised. For example we can look at overwatch, one of the biggest shooters of last gen. It had a lot of mechanics that may have been considered “dated”. No sprint or slide, no clamber, no ADS, no unlocking weapons or making loadouts, etc. Despite all that, it was one of the biggest FPS alive for years.
> >
> > I think halo infinite could pull that off. By being itself and not following trends, it sets itself apart from the competition and carves a niche into today’s fps genre which is otherwise just BRs, tactical shooters, and moven’t shooters. With the same aiming mechanics, same or similar weapons, classes or heroes, etc.
> >
> > What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.
>
> You already wrote down, what i was thinking, great post.
>
> (i don’t want to be like an “eIitist” or something with my statement, but maybe it goes a bit in that direction, sorry for that) I think the sophisiticated gamer (wich is maybe oversaturated from the Shooters on the market at the moment, wich are partial really simular and/or boring/bad) will enjoy and appreciate Infinite. Halo is an unique type of game wich almost doesn’t exist anymore (arena-shooter) and because the market is flooded with pretty generic stuff, Halo can stand out almost more than ever before.
>
> Maybe it will not have player counts like CoD or Counter-Strike, but i think it doesn’t have to and will be more successful than H4 and H5 together. (And personally i don’t ask for more)

Thank you for post, because this is exactly what I’m worried about. That with Halo Infinite the Halo series will continue to remain just a boutique game. Like a crafted beer, good, but hard to find in the store because nobody else is drinking it…

17

> 2533274907398117;14:
> what? what did you even want? its going back to what the players loved and made it popular while still adding new stuff. I didnt even know anyones expectations were high considering the not so good trailer they released for the campaign was worrying. Im genuinely curious what made you feel it was “dated”. Cod is dated since its the same thing every year but its still strong and same with battlefield although I’m only talking about the gunplay (the disasters are AWESOME) so what games are you comparing halo to that makes it feel dated?

“so what games are you comparing halo to that makes it feel dated?”

  • If you really want to know; not Battlefield or CoD, but Titanfall 2. Yes, that game that has had grappling for over the past 5 years…
18

What I want from Halo specifically is a fast paced Arena shooter that has fast movement with relatively high TTK.

I want movement to feel like it’s something easy to get into, but takes hours to master. Examples would be Apex or Quake.

I want to be able to make my opponents miss with strafing. I want Sprinting to feel like a tool and not just an “entry” into sliding. When sliding it feels like I’m locked into a full animation that doesn’t go very far. I’ve seen Shyways video btw, and I don’t care. He has to hit ever ledge in a weird S-shape pattern to build momentum. It looks like you can run faster down the middle of that lane in a straight line.

Here’s my list:
-Increase Sprint speed. You could even decrease strafe speed by 2% and increase sprint 2% to make it feel like an actual difference.
-Make Sliding more like Apex. Not a full animation.
-Aim Assist shouldn’t be able to flawlessly track aggressive strafing
-Right now it doesn’t feel like you can evade a fight. You’re always fully committed because sprint is so close to base movement speed you just get shot in the back.

19

> 2533274826593253;16:
> > 2533274987139949;13:
> > > 2533274866536985;4:
> > > On the contrary, I think the point you bring up on other “contemporary” games is exactly why halo will do well. Just about every other shooter these days is so similar to one another that they’re basically competing for each others’ playerbases. Meanwhile it’s been so long without a game like halo that infinite is suddenly a huge, refreshing addition to a market that has grown stale as of late.
> > >
> > > You can say certain elements are “dated”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be refreshed and modernised. For example we can look at overwatch, one of the biggest shooters of last gen. It had a lot of mechanics that may have been considered “dated”. No sprint or slide, no clamber, no ADS, no unlocking weapons or making loadouts, etc. Despite all that, it was one of the biggest FPS alive for years.
> > >
> > > I think halo infinite could pull that off. By being itself and not following trends, it sets itself apart from the competition and carves a niche into today’s fps genre which is otherwise just BRs, tactical shooters, and moven’t shooters. With the same aiming mechanics, same or similar weapons, classes or heroes, etc.
> > >
> > > What would kill infinite imo, however would be to chase after that “modernized” gameplay. Look no further than the last 2 halo games as my proof to that. Halo 4 when full on into copying the COD model with permanent sprint, loadouts, perks, killcams, killstreak-esque ordinance drops, etc.a very modernized halo for the time, yet it’s population dropped to nothing in only a few months time. Then there’s halo 5, which returned a bit to classic but still tried to modernize in a different direction. While the game did much better than 4, it still wasn’t perfect, and half of the new mechanics ended up being disabled in competitive anyways. Halo is at its best wehn it’s trying to be halo. Not when it’s trying to “modernize”.
> >
> > You already wrote down, what i was thinking, great post.
> >
> > (i don’t want to be like an “eIitist” or something with my statement, but maybe it goes a bit in that direction, sorry for that) I think the sophisiticated gamer (wich is maybe oversaturated from the Shooters on the market at the moment, wich are partial really simular and/or boring/bad) will enjoy and appreciate Infinite. Halo is an unique type of game wich almost doesn’t exist anymore (arena-shooter) and because the market is flooded with pretty generic stuff, Halo can stand out almost more than ever before.
> >
> > Maybe it will not have player counts like CoD or Counter-Strike, but i think it doesn’t have to and will be more successful than H4 and H5 together. (And personally i don’t ask for more)
>
> Thank you for post, because this is exactly what I’m worried about. That with Halo Infinite the Halo series will continue to remain just a boutique game. Like a crafted beer, good, but hard to find in the store because nobody else is drinking it…

I don’t care what you worried about. (Sorry for this cheeky comment)

If you want to play what the big stupid mass play to be “in” or something, go and play CoD and FoRtNitE. Halo doesn’t have to imitate other games to have big playercounts.

If you really think Halo will have over 1’000’000 player or more, playing at same time than you are thinking quite naive tbh. If you are to fine for a “boutique” game, i think Halo isn’t the right franchise for you. No disrespect but your expactations are really distorted.

EDIT: Don’t get me wrong, i’m not a blind Fanboy wich hypes everything about the game (the experience shows, that every developer, every game and franchise can fail → looking at you Cyberpunk xD and i will always be sceptic till the game really release and shows if it’s really that good)

20

What were you looking for in terms of updated gameplay? I mean they added new systems for vehicle drops, power weapon acquisition, and weapon drops. Not to mention that there are a few new weapon types, vehicle types, and grenade types. I definitely understand that it’s nothing revolutionary but, they all seem like good improvements to me.