Logic =/= Good Gameplay

Games Other Halo
1

Alright guys, this is another thread detailing stuff I don’t think should be in Halo 4, but it’s also for gaming in general.

I’ll start with the infamous Sprint.

One of the main arguments I keep on hearing about keeping sprint, is that’s it’s logical for spartans to sprint. You know all the arguments against sprint, which highlights why it isn’t good for gameplay. Now think about it, why should we sacrifice good gameplay for logic?

Another example is Bloom.

Bloom makes it so that when you shoot to fast, the bullets travel RANDOMLY inside the reticule. This means that you can completely miss, or hit right on. Now that’s logic isn’t it? Shooting to fast makes your arm moved in different ways. Now think of it for a gameplay perspective. I said earlier that you can spam the trigger and completely miss, but I also said you can hit right on. Wouldn’t that be called LUCK? Where you might be lucky to hit the other person while he is unlucky and misses. We know that when spamming the DMR full out, we don’t know which one of the two players will win.

So let’s also apply logic to Halo, which should never be done to an extent that it sacrifices good gameplay mechanics.

Now this one is a joke, but It’s a point that needs to be said so we all realize and agree that logic should not affect gameplay.

What if we didn’t re spawn after death, but we merely stay dead for the whole game? Once again, this is a joke, but proves the point.

We all know the elements that are being debated on these forums, but please, no more saying that it’s logical so it’s good for the game. Please use points to prove how it is GOOD for gameplay.

And yes, this idea did come from a conversation in a sprint thread.

2

Agreed.

3

…You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…

4

> …You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…

It’s been in every sprint debate so far.

Sprint should be in Halo 4 because humans can sprint. Sound familiar?

5

> > …You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…
>
> It’s been in every sprint debate so far.
>
> Sprint should be in Halo 4 because humans can sprint. Sound familiar?

…No, never heard that debate one single time I’ve been here…(!)…I wish…

But let’s apply logic, not to the Mechanic itself, but the state of mind most seem to be in:

-Sprint was in Reach
-Reach Was bad
-Sprint, by proxy, is also bad, no matter what changes may be made to the mechanic

SO let’s apply the wondrous thing known as logic, to all of our minds, and just bloody wait until we have more information to go off before we brand Sprint as the Anti-Christ…

…and if it does indeed end up being as hellish as you all think it will be, then kudos for pessimism being the better of the two options…

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This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> > > …You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…
> >
> > It’s been in every sprint debate so far.
> >
> > Sprint should be in Halo 4 because humans can sprint. Sound familiar?
>
> …No, never heard that debate one single time I’ve been here…(!)…I wish…
>
> But let’s apply logic, not to the Mechanic itself, but the state of mind most seem to be in:
>
> -Sprint was in Reach
> -Reach Was bad
> -Sprint, by proxy, is also bad, no matter what changes may be made to the mechanic
>
> SO let’s apply the wondrous thing known as logic, to all of our minds, and just bloody wait until we have more information to go off before we brand Sprint as the Anti-Christ…
>
> …and if it does indeed end up being as hellish as you all think it will be, then kudos for pessimism being the better of the two options…

You dumb?

As of yet, there is 0% information about sprint being changed in any way shape or form.

Sprint wasn’t bad because it was part of reach… sprint was bad because sprint was bad.

Logic tells me that since there is no evidence of change, and based on another halo game sprint was bad for gameplay. Thus, logically… with the current information, sprint will still be detrimental to gameplay.

7

> > > …You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…
> >
> > It’s been in every sprint debate so far.
> >
> > Sprint should be in Halo 4 because humans can sprint. Sound familiar?
>
> …No, never heard that debate one single time I’ve been here…(!)…I wish…
>
> But let’s apply logic, not to the Mechanic itself, but the state of mind most seem to be in:
>
> -Sprint was in Reach
> -Reach Was bad
> -Sprint, by proxy, is also bad, no matter what changes may be made to the mechanic
>
> SO let’s apply the wondrous thing known as logic, to all of our minds, and just bloody wait until we have more information to go off before we brand Sprint as the Anti-Christ…
>
> …and if it does indeed end up being as hellish as you all think it will be, then kudos for pessimism being the better of the two options…

What makes you think it’s going to be any different? any speed increase is bad. I suppose I could see a short boost to speed for like 1.5 seconds at the very most. Followed by a lengthy cooldown. But I wouldn’t compromise more than that if it were up to me.

8

> What makes you think it’s going to be any different?

The same impulse that makes you assume it will be the same…

9

> > > …You’re bringing up “Logic” in this Forum…?..You brave soul…
> >
> > It’s been in every sprint debate so far.
> >
> > Sprint should be in Halo 4 because humans can sprint. Sound familiar?
>
> …No, never heard that debate one single time I’ve been here…(!)…I wish…
>
> But let’s apply logic, not to the Mechanic itself, but the state of mind most seem to be in:
>
> -Sprint was in Reach
> -Reach Was bad
> -Sprint, by proxy, is also bad, no matter what changes may be made to the mechanic
>
> SO let’s apply the wondrous thing known as logic, to all of our minds, and just bloody wait until we have more information to go off before we brand Sprint as the Anti-Christ…
>
> …and if it does indeed end up being as hellish as you all think it will be, then kudos for pessimism being the better of the two options…

We want it the game to be good, how is that pessimistic?

10

> > What makes you think it’s going to be any different?
>
> The same impulse that makes you assume it will be the same…

So far the only video proof we have to go by shows the exact same style of sprint that Reach has. Based on that, we can fairly assume that the same style of sprint will be in the game. There isn’t any evidence to the contrary that it isn’t the same. So our assumptions hold more merit than yours.

11

> You dumb?

And howdiddly right back to you…

> As of yet, there is 0% information about sprint being changed in any way shape or form.

As of yet, there is roughly sod all information on anything, so good deduction on there being nothing to go on…

> Sprint wasn’t bad because it was part of reach… sprint was bad because sprint was bad.

Eh, you can have that one, if you really are against it that much, fair enough

> Logic tells me that since there is no evidence of change, and based on another halo game sprint was bad for gameplay. Thus, logically… with the current information, sprint will still be detrimental to gameplay.

…Mm-hmm…“Current Information”, I should probably say again that is roughly bugger all…I’d rather stay neutral than assume the worst right off the bat…but that’s just me, using “Logic”…

12

> We want it the game to be good, how is that pessimistic?

Thinking Sprint will be awful and not change = Pessimistic

Granted, there’s roughly bugger all to go on that it will change, but it could…and honestly, I’d rather be a surprised pessimist than a disappointed optimist…unfortunately though, I’ll probably end up being the latter…

13

> > We want it the game to be good, how is that pessimistic?
>
> Thinking Sprint will be awful and not change = Pessimistic
>
> Granted, there’s roughly bugger all to go on that it will change, but it could…and honestly, I’d rather be a surprised pessimist than a disappointed optimist…unfortunately though, I’ll probably end up being the latter…

It’s not a matter of the fact of thinking Sprint will be awful. I know that I do not like sprint, so I’m hoping that we can take it out and bring back the good gameplay.

14

> It’s not a matter of the fact of thinking Sprint will be awful. I know that I do not like sprint, so I’m hoping that we can take it out and bring back the good gameplay.

Well, unfortunately, whether it’s liked or not by me or you, Sprint’s going to be in the game in one or another, so let’s all just try to stay neutral until we’ve got more to go off, and here’s to hoping it isn’t going to be as bad as everyone assumes it’s going to be…

15

> > It’s not a matter of the fact of thinking Sprint will be awful. I know that I do not like sprint, so I’m hoping that we can take it out and bring back the good gameplay.
>
> Well, unfortunately, whether it’s liked or not by me or you, Sprint’s going to be in the game in one or another, so let’s all just try to stay neutral until we’ve got more to go off, and here’s to hoping it isn’t going to be as bad as everyone assumes it’s going to be…

We don’t know if Sprint will be in the game or not…

Cough Check out 0:05 Cough

16

> We don’t know if Sprint will be in the game or not…
>
> Cough Check out 0:05 Cough

…It’s highly bloody unlikely they would strip Sprint completely out of the game…granted it’s a possibility, but not the best one…

Either way, it’s practically a definite that there will be a Playlist here and there that doesn’t use Sprint(if there isn’t, THEN you can complain to hell and back), that way, everybody wins…potentially…(!)

17

The bad aspects of logic have been used while the good aspects have been disregarded.

Examples of bad aspects (in addition to the ones above):

-disappearing bodies and dropped weapons (in CE, you had to be looking away for this to happen. In SPV3, you had the option to delete bodies and weapons)
-broken geometry (this was prevalent in H3. In CE, this was actually useful and only happened if you dropped a weapon in between the legs of a combat form)
-small draw distance (big in CE, far too small in H2, H3, and Reach)

Examples of good aspects:

-AI sensing their dead (H3, H2 with Armory on, CE)
-hiding scripting rather than trying to suppress it

H3 S117 is the perfect example of a level handled improperly:

-the rally point alpha Phantom often gets stuck hovering over the ground. I think this happens most often on Heroic as I’ve had a hard time replicating it on Easy and Legendary
-Johnson gets pushed into the room yet there’s no one in there to put him behind the shield
-Hocus comes in with magic missiles and she doesn’t give a -Yoink- about the player’s proximity to the enemy, and sometimes Johnson and Arby suffer this fate
-the last 2 Phantoms have timed deaths. Bungie obviously didn’t see an AI collection coming.
-1 of the Phantoms just hovers outside the map. You can actually see it hovering there

There’s also…

The Covenant - At Journey’s End, the enemy vehicles end up driving off the cliff even if I don’t engage them. The Ghosts try to avoid being boarded that they also end up driving off the cliff. And if you leave enemies alive, when you get to the Hornets, all of them get killed off. Only a single War Chieftain doesn’t die for some reason.

The Ark - trying to stop Arby from boarding the Banshee can result in several immersion breaking things, such as Arby one shotting (instant kill) the Brute pilot, Arby disappearing if the Banshee is destroyed, Arby getting out of the Banshee when he reaches a certain point.

<mark>What they should have done is simply make it so that the Banshee cannot be affected by EMP. Then they wouldn’t need to do all these elaborate and sloppy attempts.</mark>

The Storm - Banshees and Hornets can be brought down with EMP but can’t be piloted. 3 Banshees just fly around at the AA gun. They can be brought down but guess what? You can’t drive them. This is far more disappointing than getting empty Banshees in the 2nd CE level because EMP affects the vehicles.

Hornets - Their AI is horrific. They are sitting ducks for AA Wraiths which are in a similar scenario when confronted by the player in most cases as they spend their time shooting at 2D aircraft or at nothing at all. If the Hornet pilots were using Banshees, the Wraiths probably wouldn’t land a single hit on them unless they came in close for a Banshee bomb.

This is just H3. In Reach, it is far worse and immersion is shattered within 5 minutes, often by Noble Team and troopers but also by other things.

I would like H4 to consider the good aspects and disregard the bad aspects.

343, please don’t try to stop the players from getting out of the map, from leaving the gameplay you wanted, from trying to make their dreams a reality. Just make gameplay immersive and fun by not limiting things.

18

> > We don’t know if Sprint will be in the game or not…
> >
> > Cough Check out 0:05 Cough
>
> …It’s highly bloody unlikely they would strip Sprint completely out of the game…granted it’s a possibility, but not the best one…
>
> Either way, it’s practically a definite that there will be a Playlist here and there that doesn’t use Sprint(if there isn’t, THEN you can complain to hell and back), that way, everybody wins…potentially…(!)

^^LOGIC^^

OP, instead of trying to convince yourself that you can completly remove it, why dont you just hope that (and post threads about) a “competitive” playlist without sprint/armor “perks”, because it seems more likely (and LOGICAL) that they make a sprintless playlist(s) than just scrap sprint altogether.

I admit, im not so sure about sprint either, but as long as the major problems (“herp-a-derp”, sprint-sword, sprint-hammer) arent as prevelent in Halo 4, then im fine with it.

19

> > > We don’t know if Sprint will be in the game or not…
> > >
> > > Cough Check out 0:05 Cough
> >
> > …It’s highly bloody unlikely they would strip Sprint completely out of the game…granted it’s a possibility, but not the best one…
> >
> > Either way, it’s practically a definite that there will be a Playlist here and there that doesn’t use Sprint(if there isn’t, THEN you can complain to hell and back), that way, everybody wins…potentially…(!)
>
> ^^LOGIC^^
>
> OP, instead of trying to convince yourself that you can completly remove it, why dont you just hope that (and post threads about) a “competitive” playlist without sprint/armor “perks”, because it seems more likely (and LOGICAL) that they make a sprintless playlist(s) than just scrap sprint altogether.
>
> I admit, im not so sure about sprint either, but as long as the major problems (“herp-a-derp”, sprint-sword, sprint-hammer) arent as prevelent in Halo 4, then im fine with it.

Because Logic is telling me that I’m teh best.

EDIT: And Sprint = bad.

20

> Because Logic is telling me that I’m teh best.

…Oh…well that’s good…

> And Sprint = bad.

Oh, well then I’m sure you’ll be frequenting the “Classic Playlists”…