Yes, exactly! Old artwork.
And they cut half of the campaign, which indicates some of these old artworks was a part of the cut campaign.
And as I said in my topic.
I think it got cut because Joe joined the team and saw that these characters needed better writing to be re-introduced to Halo and be a part of the campaign.
The quality re-work will take time for Joe, I believe.
So that’s why I think some elements from old artwork will get into the campaign through DLC as a polished piece.
u liltteraly argued no points and said i was wrong… ok… yes i do want u to say the problem…ur answers are like me saying u doing it wrong and then leaving… right so u didnt tell me how… i have no reason to believe u… and it sounds like ur complaining for the sake of complaining… instead of saying… u know nothing… tell me what u know instead… i doubt that will happen… but please im open
and laskey and keys couldnt be more different… i see parts of maranda for sure… but keys was a captin who went down with the ship,… gets rescued… gets infected… gets killed… ok… now laskey… not captin… go down with ship… leads marines in defence of ship… leads marines in counter attack… breaks chain of command to help mc… thats just halo 4,… now 5… captin of ship… this is when he holds keys role… not well but he holds it… u only see him in cutscenes and nothing major happens with his character
ok now im gonna ask u to think here… ready…
JOHNSON… halo 1… leads marines in defence of autumn… leads marines in keys rescue… leads marines and survives the infection… if u read the book he does more but ill stick to the games… halo 2… leads marines through earths city… leads marines on delta halo… leads marines to the library and gets captrued but lives… sounds familiar right… 1 more… halo 3… leads marines in earths jungle… leads marines in crows nest… coordinates marines on the ark… leads marines on valhalla… gets captured and survives… dies on the last level by 343 guilty spark… now then keys or johnson… use ur brain i know u got one
and to drive it home… what u have written this far is… and im paraphrasing here… ur wrong laskey is keys and the fans suck cus locke isnt that bad… ok… here is what im saying… u can like whatever character u want buddy thats not the problem… the problem is that locke is an underdeveloped character and that by saying laskey is captin keys… i am lead to believe u havent played the og games… if u havent read the books thats fine… whatever… but dont act like u know what ir talking about when reality contradicts what ur saying… in comes of as though ur trying to appear knowledgeable on the subject but ur getting points and character comparisons wrong…
NOW… if u told me all u have played is halo 5… ok my suggestion would be play the series and this time pay attention to the characters and story… if u have done that… then ill just say ignorance is bliss aint it… and lastly… now i know the politics now a days so i will say this before u actually tell me ur thoughts on why people dislike locke… if it has anything to do with the amount of melanin in his skin… my friend u are the problem… no one else… thats just u
i dont think u have anything to say… so why are u here? and i read ur deleted comment… dude…, arby really? if i had to guess u realized how loved his character is now and decided to delete ur comment… why… did u ask urself why he is loved… is it because of his character arch in halo 2? yes but i think what drives it home is the conclusion of his arch in halo 3 where you get the full picture of his characters development… a loyal commander who has been lied to and has lost the respect of his people. now out to redeem himself in the eyes of the profits he uncovers that it is all a lie. everything he had ever done was in the service of a lie… so he puts aside his hate of humans and brokers a deal between the species… thats huge man. and whats more… thats just one game… in halo 3 he achieves his revenge for the betrayal of his species and also works alongside the most hated human by the covenant standards, realizing that they arnt as different as appearance would suggest. like holy cow,… thats good character development… thats how to write a story
i can see where u are coming from, a lot of people were left with a bad impression of locke after Halo 5. i think that if the pursued Buck it would be best as an alpha 9 dlc… and i mean… yes take my money please… ill play that every day. but i do think locke deserves another chance with a competent writer at the helm. his character is so underdeveloped that there are many ways still available for him to develop in a way that draws a stark contrast to his halo 5 self and if you can contrast a character to his previous iteration and find changes while also seeing consistency in the underlying traits… well now that is what we call character development.
Perhaps not, but it fills some time and maybe there’s some benefit for posterity.
Yep, sure did. In response to you saying that Locke tried to “replace the Master Chief” with (checks notes) no supporting evidence. Actually, sorry, you said he hadn’t “earned his place” as Chief’s replacement.
You want specifics, I suppose.
Well first, there’s the canonical fact; Locke was not there to “replace” John-117. In fact, while within the Spartan Branch they both hold the rank of “Spartan”, within the ranking structure of the UNSCDF, Locke outranks John-117 as a Lieutenant Commander. He doesn’t need to replace the Master Chief, he has already exceeded him. And we’re speaking administratively here, not as the propped up “Savior of the Galaxy”.
Which, it’s interesting that you say that Locke didn’t “earn his place”. Neither did John. Literally, the Master Chief didn’t do a single thing that tested him to where now he and he alone bears the Mantle of Responsibility and must show up to Do All the Things. He’s the “savior of the galaxy” because the fans refuse to have it any other way. He’s the “best Spartan” despite evidence to the contrary because that’s how he was written. And so far as the canon goes he excels by default, by fate, because ancient aliens planted a geas in his genetic code. He “earned” nothing.
It would be just as easy, just as out of the blue and fitting within the canon, to say that Jameson Locke has a geas as well that makes him John’s equal, or even his better.
Secondly, even from a real world Game Script perspective, Locke was not there to replace the Chief. Locke was there to tell his story, which incidentally was a vehicle of finding the Master Chief. Even in the campaign, for a large portion of it we don’t know what’s going on. From the moment Blue Team goes AWOL, we’re just as out of information as Osiris is while they’re on Meridian as to what actually happened, and discover it as they do.
Fans got bent out of shape about not playing as the Master Chief, but the campaign still centered around him. Which is more than can be said for Halo 2, which was the last time fans were irate at not playing as the Chief, and the Arbiter’s story didn’t even revolve around the Chief as much as Locke’s did. Contrary to what @Sodium_Bath said above, the Arbiter had literally never showed up before. We’re told that he was the Commander at Installation 04, yet that information only serves as catalyst to his public shaming and demotion, allowing him to become the Arbiter. And from there, his story is his own up until he confronts John-117 in the Gravemind’s lair.
You never answered if you want my honest opinion on this, so we’ll assume so. Observing Salt’s post above, there’s an unhealthy dose of “He’s not the Chief!!!” outrage. Well, no duh. Add to that a general disdain of anything and everything that 343i does by a subsect of fans, and a pining for the Glory Days of 2007 when the Chief was the Absolute Best of All The World and He Never Fails and Always Wins and Girls Love Him. Might be a bit hyperbolic, but that’s the vibe that’s put out by several fan notions of the Chief.
Secondly, and this is a factor despite your objections below, a not-so-small dose of real world politics, especially considering the reaction by these same fans to Sarah Palmer. I will not be going into detail; I’m sure you can gather what I am referring to, since you took the time to tell me that I’m the problem there, not the people who refer to him with slurs. In fact, I was going to leave this factor out, chalk it up to bigotry of those individuals, but then you specifically brough it in. Which is telling.
Now, one point of clarity:
I never said you know nothing. I said you were wrong in that, in addition to the points above, at no point does Locke try to “replace” John-117, nor was that a goal of Halo 5.
Nor did I say that they were the same. I said if anything he would be “replacing” Captain Keyes. Also being quite clear that it’s a misconception that new characters are there to replace the old. Namely, the character archetype of “Supporting Officer in Command of the Ship” role.
Do not do that.
Or this. If you’re going to make this decidedly unpleasant, this will be a very short back-and-forth.
No, you’re not paraphrasing. You are, in fact, grossly expanding upon what I said with more than an unhealthy dose of projection, assumption, and just plain misrepresenting the very few sentences that I wrote in reply to you.
Again, I said you were wrong regarding Locke “replacing” the Chief, and you still are. I said that if anything Lasky would serve as replacement for Jacob and Miranda Keyes (Miranda was just as boots-on-the-ground as Lasky, in fact), and was very explicit in saying that it is a misconception to think that new characters are there to replace old ones. To simplify: New Person isn’t there to fill any shoes but their own.
Whether you like Locke or not is up to you and neither here nor there. I have my own misgivings on much of the fanbase that are unrelated to this issue (but symptomatic of it), but that is, as stated above, a misrepresentation of my opinions on a portion of the fanbase. I’m not here to champion for Locke, I entered in objection to false statements.
This is something else we’re not going to do. Especially given that I referenced characters in the Original Trilogy, you’re rampant assumption off a few sentences is just… Yeah, let’s not do that. If you’re going to come at How Much I Know, you need to actually read what I write.
wow… uhhh dude ur real sweaty about this… ok 1 sec ill read it
You’re not inspiring much confidence, as you’re continuing to project.
canonically yes… and canonically each character is a different character… it’s almost as if they cannot literally be the same person… thats common sense and you r arguing nonsense… im talking about roles… locke was ment to replace chief in the players eyes. don’t agree… ok then why is halo 5 90% locke and almost no chief… marketing… real world stuff dude… canonically yes they are different… in reality one was ment to usure a new gen into halo and failed.
John earning his place… i don’t know how to tell that story unless i go through all key plot points in halo 1 2 and 3… which no… not my job… play the game or watch a video about his character development because that statement is hilarious… alright whats next
so you say locke is there to tell his story… i agree… its just piss poor story telling… hence the issue with locke
and my dude if you are comparing halo 5 the worst story of the series to halo 2 the best story of the series there is a serious disconnect that i don’t think can be rectified
ok so what ur saying is that fans will hate any new commer to the series is a cop out… u don’t know that and ur assuming a lot in that statement and i really suggest u read the posts that encourage lockes development
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dude ill teach you some philosophy 101… if your going to argue semantics then you don’t have an argument… its quite literally in the first philosophy class you take in college and yes the goal was to bring a new character in so chief could be phased out… to say otherwise is ignorance
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right and i said you were wrong and then explained why with a plethora of examples which you have yet to refute
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don’t think? that explains a lot actually
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soooooooo… and im paraphrasing here… look up the definintion of paraphrasing please… lasky is ment to replace keys role… key word role… and you want to object to false statments… even though what you say is false… right got it
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saying we are not gonna do this is not a defence nor a point and my dude i read what you wrote lol… did you… because i think that you think your smarter than you are… when you declare something false i need details as to how and why… i dont think you have said details nor do i think you want to be engaged in active discussion of said details because of… well… read what you wrote lol
…
i think thats it no?
no one asked you to object to anything… you just did and now ur salty that what you have been shown to be quite ignorant as to the actual motives and story ofthe halo and it characters… im not saying that you are entitled to an opinion but when you say something is wrong you best be right… and your not… and thats fact dude… this thread was ment to talk about lockes potential not about his haters… you missed that completely and instead attack a point using semantics as your basis and your surprised when it falls flat
thats again, philosophy 101, if you fall back on semantics, you have no argument.
if you want a productive discussion tell me what would make lock a better character… im interested in that… not your ranting and raving about nonsense and semantics.
my friend no disrespect but you truly appear as though you know nothing about what you are trying to talk about. but i am here if you have questions on characters, their development or why they were introduced…
now then
take a deap breath and tell me what you think would make locke a better character
lets start there
I don’t think so.
I think Locke was meant to be a replacement for the Arbiter. That’s why they put Locke with the Arbiter in many scenarios during Halo 5.
So players would think of Locke and Arbiter as equals.
thats an interesting take
how so
by that i mean what are the parallels in their arch’s
Locke and Arbiters parallells are that they both have tried to hunt down the Master Chief.
on the surface maybe
but id argue that arby is their for the fans and while he did at one point look for chief, it wasn’t in the same way as locke
id argue that lock being around arby so much only ads to the thought that he is taking chiefs role, or trying to
Arbiter doesn’t trust lock
like he didn’t trust chief
arbiter ends up relying on lock
like he did chief
i think Arbiters role in halo 5 was to help cement locke into chiefs role but since it was hitting all the same beats as Arbiter did with chief the fans saw right through it, hence the backlash, we have a chief, give us someone unique
my dude please no more long form semantic arguments… its like reading a paper that concludes in its final paragraph that it has no point to prove and you wasted your time trying to find one…
Toast I’m going to give you one more warning. Just an overarching one, as it’s saturating your post. If you want to continue this as a discussion, knock off the personal barbs, insults and projections. I do not have the patience for it, and will not entertain it. Can we move forward civilly? Fantastic.
Additionally, do not tell me how to post. Moving on.
Because the whole plot of Halo 5 was finding the Chief. That is what the marketing set up, and that is what was delivered. The Chief went AWOL, and the UNSC investigated why. That mystery cannot be portrayed when viewed through the eyes of the Master Chief.
If Locke was meant to replace the Master Chief, then John-117 would be dead. He would have died in Halo 5.
Yes, actually it is your job, as you’re the one trying to make that point. Please, do tell just how the events of Halo: CE through Halo 3 is John “earning his place”.
Then provide evidence of that. Not conjecture and assumption, I want to see the character statement for Jameson Locke where he is being introduced as the replacement Forefront of the Halo series, following a planned and scheduled retirement of MCPO John-117. Unless you have that, this is only an opinion.
As stated above, your “plethora of reasons” were a tangent branching off entirely from anything I had said, and in fact standing quite in opposition of what I did say. I’m not going to refute a strawman. If you would like to actually address what I did say, those posts still remain.
I suggest you do the same, Toast. Because again, nowhere did I say “meant to” or anything of the like. In fact, I have been quite explicit in stating IF ANYTHING. Meaning it is not a held standard, and I have also been quite explicit in stating that New Characters do not necessarily serve the function of replacing Old Characters. Thomas Lasky isn’t “New Johnson” or “New Miranda”, he is Thomas Lasky.
I don’t think Locke needs anything, as I don’t think he’s a bad character at all. He’s a decorated ONI operative who began his career as a freelance assassin, eventually being recruited by ONI Section III - an interesting turn, as after the glassing of his home planet of Jericho VII he was highly critical of the UEG.
He’s a competent Commander that cares for his people, even under excessive duress, and given his history holds a more-than-uncommon sympathy for the Outer Colonies and their people. He is highly knowledgeable of other cultures and species, speaks multiple languages, and knows how to use that both to apply pressure and diplomacy.
His service career and skills are put to great use as a Spartan-IV operative in 2556, and in those two years prior to Kamchatka (where Locke lead not one but two operations at the same time; Operation: ANCHORITE and Operation: DESINENCE), Locke led no less than four operations against both Insurrectionists and Covenant remnants.
I don’t need to see it in a game to know that Locke is a good character.
lol a veiled threat on a forum how original
No, an ultimatum. If you can’t conduct this civilly, then there’s nothing to discuss.
@Sodium_Bath regarding my last post; if I’ve “missed the point” regarding the Arbiter, care to elaborate?
ok last one, ive said my piece so now ill tell you what i see here
1 veiled threat
2 that is a ridiculous argument, a character does not have to be dead to be replaced
3 play the game the evidence is the game itself, again im not going to go over every plot point
4 no i targeted every reason you could give for saying that lasky is ment to fill keys role… re read it please
5 semantics again, you really dont know how to argue a point here friend
6 have you ever heard of the golden rule in story telling… its Show and don’t tell… if locke is an assassin, show us his skill, don’t tell us and expect us to believe you
and ya you are the minority if your saying that you don’t need to see it in a game… thats just ignorance on how to write a story. which hey if you didn’t learn this stuff in school then i don’t fault you but nows a good a time as any to inform you.
and the Missed-the-point tag was about the whole thing dude, not one part, you are looking through the Lense of semantics again
that make no sense, if you can list accomplishments but cannot reflect said accomplishments in character and disposition, than that’s all they are, accomplishments… the character is still badly written… the two are not mutually exclusive
for instance, i could list all my accomplishments but would that influence your opinion of my character, only if you can see the correlation, right? there is no correlation for locke’s accomplishments outside of arby saying you hunted me once… well ok… not a lot to go on and lockes reaction was about as colorful as a doornail
Right then, you have a day.
i really hope you learned something about semantic arguments today, really not many people have the patience to teach someone like you, and while im not perfect i did try. stay in school kids and ya you too buddy