Loadout Thoughts & Poll

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Let’s see how many diametrically opposite opinions we can pack into this thread! Haha.

Caveat: I like custom loadouts in general. You will never convince me otherwise - though in certain gametypes, I agree with fixed loadouts.

Thoughts on loadout weapons:

  1. Primary / secondary: Remove the distinction. You can load out with 2 weapons. Period. All loadout weapons should be viable primaries (i.e., a 5SK Magnum).

  2. Weapon categories: Long, medium, short. Each weapon within a category needs to be roughly equivalent. Based on current H4 weapons:

Long: LR, DMR
Med: BR, CC
Short: AR, SR, Suppressor, Magnum
Not included: PP, BS (not equivalent to other weapons)

Whatever changes to weapons occur in H5, this must be kept in mind.

  1. Balancing: The current H4 balancing is pretty good, with the exception of the reload time & magazine capacity of the CC (too long / too little) and the Suppressor (useless). This must be done correctly out-of-the-gate for H5.

  2. Social lists & slayer gametypes: Select whatever weapons you want.

  3. Ranked objectives: Preset combinations, such as DMR / AR, LR / Supp, BR / Mag, CC / SR. Alternatively, I would be fine with a fixed human loadout for ranked objectives.

Thoughts on AAs / perks:

  1. Number: needs to be far fewer. Say 3 AAs, tac packs, and support apiece. Max. And I would be fine with eliminating tac packs / support entirely.

  2. Feature removal: Cannot remove base features simply to have a perk. Resupply was just a bad idea.

  3. Social: You can have 'em all.

  4. Ranked slayer & all objectives: You can have none, or they are incorporated into standard loadouts.

  5. Jetpack: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY . . . no jetpack in anything ranked (I am not opposed to it in social lists). Please. PLEASE. I beg you . . . please no jetpack.

  6. AC: See jetpack.

  7. PV: See jetpack.

  8. Gameplay: Cannot change base gameplay. Jetpack / PV are the biggest AA offenders here, but some of the perks like Survivor also fall into this category. If included, they should grant minor advantages . . . not a method of kamikaze-ing a Ghost at a Mantis and using the autoeject sequence as a way to board with impunity.

Begin discussion.

2

I like the loadouts as they are in Halo 4, I like sprint, and I like the AAs and would like to see them again in Halo 5. I’m sure they’ll be there, but a public beta would be nice so that we can make sure that everything is balanced for launch day. I really don’t another repeat where it took 6 months to fix weapons in H4.

3

Allow the CC=BR and bring the gun into ranked and I am good.
(I am ofc refering to even in ranked play I can pick a CC)

4

Ranked/Competitive playlists should have very limited loadouts for the sake of balance. Maybe the choice between 2 weapons, But for the most part, They should be the same.

Social should allow you to pick from a wider range of weapons.

AA’s would be map pick ups with limited uses/energy.

Perks would rot and die.

Weapon skins would also still be here.

Done.

5

I don’t believe there is anything inherently non-competitive about the concept of loadouts, and hate when that argument is brought up.

If you want to say “But they aren’t classic”, at least that line of thought makes sense.

6

Get rid of all loadouts, armour abilities and perks.

7

AAs should only be map pickups. Period. Social & Ranked.

NO PERKS.

Social should have 4 standard loadouts, 2 for humans, 2 for elites.

  1. BR, SMG, 1x Frag
  2. AR, Pistol, 1x Frag
  3. CC, Plasma Rifle, 1x Plasma
  4. Storm Rifle, Needle Pistol, 1x Plasma

Ranked should be Humans only, BR, Pistol, 1x Frag

8

> AAs should only be map pickups. Period. Social & Ranked.
>
> NO PERKS.
>
> Social should have 4 standard loadouts, 2 for humans, 2 for elites.
>
> 1) BR, SMG, 1x Frag
> 2) AR, Pistol, 1x Frag
> 3) CC, Plasma Rifle, 1x Plasma
> 4) Storm Rifle, Needle Pistol, 1x Plasma
>
> Ranked should be Humans only, BR, Pistol, 1x Frag

Umm no, the CC should be an option in ranked.

(not in the MLG play list)

9

> I don’t believe there is anything inherently non-competitive about the concept of loadouts, and hate when that argument is brought up.
>
> If you want to say “But they aren’t classic”, at least that line of thought makes sense.

It goes against something that made Halo competitive in the first place. Everyone spawned on equal grounds. Loadouts do away with that, and also adds another unnecessary element of randomness to the game.

10

> It goes against something that made Halo competitive in the first place. Everyone spawned on equal grounds. Loadouts do away with that, and also adds another unnecessary element of randomness to the game.

There’s that word again. “Random.” Having loadouts does NOT make it random, since there is set amount of options to choose from, meaning that you should be aware of what your opponents might possibly have. If it was “random” as you say, we would be playing Fiesta Slayer.

11

> > It goes against something that made Halo competitive in the first place. Everyone spawned on equal grounds. Loadouts do away with that, and also adds another unnecessary element of randomness to the game.
>
> There’s that word again. “Random.” Having loadouts does NOT make it random, since there is set amount of options to choose from, meaning that you should be aware of what your opponents might possibly have. If it was “random” as you say, we would be playing Fiesta Slayer.

It makes the gameplay random. You’ll play with random people who all have different loadouts, essentially randomized games. This didn’t happen in previous games, Halo Reach excluded. Also, you’re not fully aware of what your opponents have in Halo 4. The ‘perks’ if I may (I don’t remember their actual name, I haven’t played in months) ruin this as well, another part of previous Halo games that is now gone.

This still has nothing to do with the main point of balance.

12

> It makes the gameplay random.

So long as loadouts options don’t strictly beat other loadout options, the randomness is irrelevant. Strafe is random, it’s also perfectly capable of being countered. Bullet spread is random, it can also be nullified by closing the gap.

In Halo 3 I’d randomly walk into people with weapons other than the BR all the time.

> The ‘perks’

Asking for loadouts isn’t the same as asking for perks. There is literally absolutely nothing you can do to prevent someone from using a perk, which is bad.

> Everyone spawned on equal grounds

Identical isn’t the same as equal. If that was the only form of equal then there would be no justification for even having the word “equal” as its own unique word.

13

> So long as loadouts options don’t strictly beat other loadout options, the randomness is irrelevant. Strafe is random, it’s also perfectly capable of being countered. Bullet spread is random, it can also be nullified by closing the gap.
>
> In Halo 3 I’d randomly walk into people with weapons other than the BR all the time.

Certain loadout options do strictly beat others depending on the map. That is the problem.

> Identical isn’t the same as equal. If that was the only form of equal then there would be no justification for even having the word “equal” as its own unique word.

It is the same as equal when everyone has the same weapons and grenades. At that point the main factors in winning fights and ultimately the game is skill and teamwork.

14

I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again. Social should give you a choice between CC/BR, and Ranked is same starts but vote on the gametype. (E.g. CC Slayer or Slayer BR’s.)

Another twist we could try out is depending on your player species, your default precision would be adjusted accordingly.

Elite = Carbine

Spartan = Battle Rifle

15

Great Poll.

I have selected the following:
Social - Personal Loadout
Ranked - Standard Loadout
AA/PERKS - GONE FOREVER

However I think AA, should return as a Hybrid of Equipment and be map pickups. The only differnce is that some would be single use ie) Bubble Shield, and others Multiple Uses, ie) Hologram.

PERKS and any INFINITY SETTINGS gone.

16

> So long as loadouts options don’t strictly beat other loadout options, the randomness is irrelevant. Strafe is random, it’s also perfectly capable of being countered. Bullet spread is random, it can also be nullified by closing the gap.
>
> In Halo 3 I’d randomly walk into people with weapons other than the BR all the time.

I draw a distinction between loadout choices and strafing. In the act of strafing, there is a set maximum speed that you and everyone else can move. This consistency in what a player is capable of makes it something that you can master and/or continuously outperform others with.

When choosing your loadout, there are various options that change what you are capable of. Whether you win or lose an encounter is no longer solely determined by the skill of you and your opponent, but also by what choices you made beforehand (different from weapon pickups in that you choose your equipment, rather than putting effort toward getting a potential advantage).

I view loadouts’s effect on gameplay the same as if players could choose between different movement speeds.

Likewise, bullet spread may be random, but it is also common to all players at-spawn when identical starts are in play. With loadouts, bullet spread can be nullified without effort by choosing a weapon that is more fitting towards the range your engagements will be in, and (like ‘perks’) there’s nothing your opponent can do to stop you from choosing/using an alternate weapon if you spawn with it.

17

-redacted-

18

> This consistency in what a player is capable of makes it something that you can master and/or continuously outperform others with.

It’s unpredictable. Random is random. You master strafe by making your patterns more complex and therefore harder to guess. What separates strafe from a dice roll is you can actually influence the odds (or remove them altogether).

> Whether you win or lose an encounter is no longer solely determined by the skill of you and your opponent

Some people are better joggers, some are better swimmers. Now lets force the swimmers into a land race because “running skills matter more”.

I would be lying if I said there aren’t loadout systems where weapon choice wins battles (Halo 4 is even a prime example). That doesn’t mean these systems were designed well and that’s all loadouts can ever be.

Tell me, why do so many people that dislike loadouts still say “but choosing between a battle rifle and carbine is okay”? By their own logic even this decision should be unacceptable.

> I view loadouts’s effect on gameplay the same as if players could choose between different movement speeds.

Except that’s a poor analogy because having the ability to move faster is objectively superior to having no ability to move faster. As much as I hate sprint, I would choose to spawn with it if the pre-match lobby gave me an option between spawning with it and spawning without it.

Is choosing healing over crowd control that clear cut and objective? Both are very important aspects of a game. Neither is factually the superior choice.

> Likewise, bullet spread may be random, but it is also common to all players at-spawn when identical starts are in play.

It’s inherently unfair if you miss a shot due to no fault of your own. It’s not common to all players because the results are different each time.

Using your logic ANY loadout system is fair because all players have the same options, even if those options don’t always lead to the same results.

> there’s nothing your opponent can do to stop you from choosing/using an alternate weapon if you spawn with it.

Actually there is but that’s a whole different discussion.
Though people aren’t going to be using DMR’s if I’m constantly in their face.

19

I love Custom Loadouts. I really want them back.

As for how I want Loadouts, prefarbly the same as Halo 4. I really like the Primary, Secondary, AA, and Grenade choices. Perks, you could reduce it to just one option instead of two. As long as I can have Firepower again (so I can have two Primaries), that’s all that matters Perk-wise to me.

As for what to put them in… Why not just have Infinity and Legendary playlists, and have all those playlists have CSR (like Halo 4)?

20

Primaries: should have scopes and be effective up to mid range. Bring back descope to balance against DMR and LR.

Secondaries: buff Plasma Pistol and Bolshot normal shot, add in SMG and Plasma Rifle for variety.

Grenades: Only spawn with one grenade of each type. Cuts down spam and vehicle kills.

AAs: Remove jetpack and replace with a universal double jump. Thruster Pack should be universal too. Make Active Camo like Halo 3’s cloaking.

No Perks.

This would only apply for what I call “core” playlists like Team Slayer and BTB. There should be a “legendary” section of matchmaking with three or four playlists oriented towards equal starts and competitive play too.