Lets talk maps for halo 4 Multiplayer

Games Other Halo
1

Since this is probably late due to maps more than probably already contructed I think something 343 needs to do is strike a balance with their maps for multiplayer.

When you look back at Halo CE some maps stood out while others were terrible. For example, compare Battle Creek to Boarding action. Now of course on was a 8v8 map and the other was a 1v1,2v2,4v4 map. But something about variant functionality needs to be adressed for Halo 4. We’ve all played Reach. Some love it, some hate it, but a general complaint is the maps that we we’re given to play. There are a few decent maps in Reach, though they don’t compare to previous titles. One of the main issues, for me atleast was their variant functionaliy. What exactly do I mean? How they play for obj and slayer at a casual/competitive level.

When Reach first came out Arena was its only competitive playlist for try-hards, which I use the term loosly. Regardless, the maps after time became known for their various issues for Slayer. Look at a map like Boardwalk, where originally Red spawn got both rockets most of time. Or even Zealot where camping in Space was the best strat to be used. Of course after time these were fixed but there were still issues with Reach maps.

Most of these maps don’t support a “fair” game for both teams. The best example of this was Swordbase. Which was used for Oddball, Slayer, Flag, Stock pile. It didn’t support any of these variants well. Now this makes me think that Halo 4 maps needs to be able to have variant support down properly. I cite Halo 2 as one of the best Halo games for maps. Why though?

Look at a map like Midship. Great for Slayer, Oddball, and CTF. Lockout, slow at times, but still great for Slayer, and Oddball. Then the other end of the spectrum. Waterworks, Containment, maps MADE for BTB. These maps supported differn’t types of BTB variants, CTF, Assault, Slayer. Each map had a variant in mind and was tweaked to offer both casual/competitve play. This of course was lacking in Halo:Reach,even in Halo 3 some maps made you wonder.

Epitath flag in 2v2? Why?

Once again I honestly think 343 needs to understand this kind of issue.

Arena Maps

You need to have 4v4 maps that support Slayer, Oddball, KOTH, CTF, assualt etc. These maps are the staple of Halo gameplay. Rather they be symetrical or A symetric, balance needs to be struck while these maps are created.

BTB Maps

Something rather lacking in Halo 3 and Halo Reach were good BTB maps. Reach more so with its lack of actual maps and forge reliant maps. Whats something wrong with all of these maps? They had giant open middle feilds with tiny little bases. Look at something like Waterworks in Halo 2. A giant middle structure, with 3 entrances, 2 giant side caves that led to bases and, well. Bases that had 4 entrances into the base.

Tl:DR

Maps in Halo 4 need be able to support differn’t variants properly as well as have variant specifics in mind in order to have proper casual/competitve play.

Share your opinions on how you think maps in Halo 4 should be.

Cheers.

2

I was hoping for something a bit like Sandbox, but actually took advantage of the 3 layers, making an excellent big team battle map.

I also hoped that something like Forge World, but actually used the map to its full potential.

I also think that, while maps containing even bases are balanced and fair, some maps with bases having individual strengths and weakness would be nice as well, explored very weakly in Halo entirely.

3

Let’s just hope they don’t screw things up.

4

All they need to do is create maps that function logically.

If you’re playtesting it and in the middle of the game you have no feel for the flow of the game or where your enemies are or where they may be spawning, scrap it.

All the best halo maps have a strong feeling of flow and logic to them.

5

> I was hoping for something a bit like Sandbox, but actually took advantage of the 3 layers, making an excellent big team battle map.
>
> I also hoped that something like Forge World, but actually used the map to its full potential.
>
> I also think that, while maps containing even bases are balanced and fair, some maps with bases having individual strengths and weakness would be nice as well, explored very weakly in Halo entirely.

Forge world was a decent idea, however its lack of being able to sustain its self really broke it. To create a 4v4 maps forgers are limited to a budget before screen lag becomes detrimental in split screen. Not to mention its bland color scheme. If they had seperated it into sections, like map selected sections, It could have been better.

That would be a decent idea actually. However what kind of weaknesses do you mean though? When I think about it would one team have an overall advantedge over the other?

6

> All they need to do is create maps that function logically.
>
> If you’re playtesting it and in the middle of the game you have no feel for the flow of the game or where your enemies are or where they may be spawning, scrap it.
>
> All the best halo maps have a strong feeling of flow and logic to them.

Well true enough honestly. Boardwalk in Reach is one of the worst maps for spawns. You know they have 3 sections to spawn in, but which one almost seems rather random.

I found in Halo 2/3 maps had power positions you wanted to hold and could actually hold without being naded out or derped by someone sprinting at you.

7

> > I was hoping for something a bit like Sandbox, but actually took advantage of the 3 layers, making an excellent big team battle map.
> >
> > I also hoped that something like Forge World, but actually used the map to its full potential.
> >
> > I also think that, while maps containing even bases are balanced and fair, some maps with bases having individual strengths and weakness would be nice as well, explored very weakly in Halo entirely.
>
> Forge world was a decent idea, however its lack of being able to sustain its self really broke it. To create a 4v4 maps forgers are limited to a budget before screen lag becomes detrimental in split screen. Not to mention its bland color scheme. If they had seperated it into sections, like map selected sections, It could have been better.
>
> That would be a decent idea actually. However what kind of weaknesses do you mean though? When I think about it would one team have an overall advantedge over the other?

Have you ever played the custom game World Powers in Reach?

Each base has a strength and weakness to it that balances things out. One has advanced aircraft, one is difficult to approach by land, one is difficult to approach by air, and one has advanced ground. That is what I pictured in a real MP game.

Likewise, (respectively) one cannot defend effectively against ground invasions, one cannot protect from air assault, one cannot avoid ground confrontation, and one cannot battle in the air. This is what I want to see in some competetive game types. They really enforce teamwork.

8

Also w/e the forge map is in H4, PUT SOME -Yoinking!- COLOUR INTO IT FFS.

9

> Since this is probably late due to maps more than probably already contructed I think something 343 needs to do is strike a balance with their maps for multiplayer.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Arena Maps
>
> You need to have 4v4 maps that support Slayer, Oddball, KOTH, CTF, assualt etc. These maps are the staple of Halo gameplay. Rather they be symetrical or A symetric, balance needs to be struck while these maps are created.
>
> BTB Maps
>
> Something rather lacking in Halo 3 and Halo Reach were good BTB maps. Reach more so with its lack of actual maps and forge reliant maps. Whats something wrong with all of these maps? They had giant open middle feilds with tiny little bases. Look at something like Waterworks in Halo 2. A giant middle structure, with 3 entrances, 2 giant side caves that led to bases and, well. Bases that had 4 entrances into the base.
>
> Tl:DR
>
> Maps in Halo 4 need be able to support differn’t variants properly as well as have variant specifics in mind in order to have proper casual/competitve play.
>
> Share your opinions on how you think maps in Halo 4 should be.
>
> Cheers.

Absolutely, an equal number of maps that are specifically designed for certain gametypes/number of players. Reach lacked this severely i.e. most BTB maps were designed specifically for Invasion. For Halo 4 we’re going to need say at least 1 map apiece that is designed specifically for each gametype. That includes things like Infection as well, not just the core gametypes. Some maps can be designed for multiple gametypes, but they need to be similar like how Zanzibar was for Asymmetrical games like 1-Flag and 1-Bomb.

10

Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.

My proposition is to include something like 12 remakes and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.

11

> Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.
>
> My proposition is to include something like <mark>12 remakes</mark> and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.

I’d rather they take a game off from using remakes. I think Reach and Anniversary should be treated as a send off to remakes. This is a new trilogy and new developer so I feel like they should have some creative freedom. Maybe one 3-map classic map pack wouldn’t hurt, but I’d leave it at that. I wouldn’t do more than 5 remakes in any game ever, anything more and players would see that as being ripped off from new content.

12

> > Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.
> >
> > My proposition is to include something like <mark>12 remakes</mark> and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.
>
> I’d rather they take a game off from using remakes. I think Reach and Anniversary should be treated as a send off to remakes. This is a new trilogy and new developer so I feel like they should have some creative freedom. Maybe one 3-map classic map pack wouldn’t hurt, but I’d leave it at that. I wouldn’t do more than 5 remakes in any game ever, anything more and players would see that as being ripped off of new content.

I dont think it works that way. CoD has been remake after remake for years, and it doesn’t like that franchises is dying anytime soon (even though its -Yoink!-)

13

> > > Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.
> > >
> > > My proposition is to include something like <mark>12 remakes</mark> and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.
> >
> > I’d rather they take a game off from using remakes. I think Reach and Anniversary should be treated as a send off to remakes. This is a new trilogy and new developer so I feel like they should have some creative freedom. Maybe one 3-map classic map pack wouldn’t hurt, but I’d leave it at that. I wouldn’t do more than 5 remakes in any game ever, anything more and players would see that as being ripped off of new content.
>
> I dont think it works that way. CoD has been remake after remake for years, and it doesn’t like that franchises is dying anytime soon (even though its -Yoink!-)

I was speaking in terms of maps, not gameplay. CoD may have the same gameplay year after year, but they keep rolling out new maps for it. You don’t see them do too many map remakes. Halo does a lot of them so I think it’s time for a break form that.

14

I disagree. Since map design was so good in previous Halos the maps themselves have become staples in the series. Lockout is like the Battle Rifle. It just screams Halo. There are already so many great maps from Halo 2/3 that I would hate to lose them for Halo 4’s lifespan

15

> > Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.
> >
> > My proposition is to include something like <mark>12 remakes</mark> and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.
>
> I’d rather they take a game off from using remakes. I think Reach and Anniversary should be treated as a send off to remakes. This is a new trilogy and new developer so I feel like they should have some creative freedom. Maybe one 3-map classic map pack wouldn’t hurt, but I’d leave it at that. I wouldn’t do more than 5 remakes in any game ever, anything more and players would see that as being ripped off from new content.

I agree, remakes should not be remade by 343, but by community members, considering forge is going to be in Halo 4, I think that the members should remake the maps. And not 343…

16

> > > > Devs walk a fine line between including a lot of maps for variety and keeping the total number of maps within a reasonable number so players have a chance to learn them all.
> > > >
> > > > My proposition is to include something like <mark>12 remakes</mark> and 12 original maps. This way there is a LOT OF VARIETY with a LITTLE LEARNING CURVE.
> > >
> > > I’d rather they take a game off from using remakes. I think Reach and Anniversary should be treated as a send off to remakes. This is a new trilogy and new developer so I feel like they should have some creative freedom. Maybe one 3-map classic map pack wouldn’t hurt, but I’d leave it at that. I wouldn’t do more than 5 remakes in any game ever, anything more and players would see that as being ripped off of new content.
> >
> > I dont think it works that way. CoD has been remake after remake for years, and it doesn’t like that franchises is dying anytime soon (even though its -Yoink!-)
>
> I was speaking in terms of maps, not gameplay. CoD may have the same gameplay year after year, but they keep rolling out new maps for it. You don’t see them do too many map remakes. Halo does a lot of them so I think it’s time for a break form that.

Remakes are an essential part of the Halo series. They’ve put the same map (Blood Gulch) in every game in some form or another. You can’t go overboard with too many remakes, but its a good thing if it ships with a couple of GOOD remakes that they know the community will enjoy, just in case the new maps aren’t liked by the community. I don’t think that they should ship it with more than 2-3 remakes though, with another 3-4 in DLC.

17

If Halo 4 shipped with 12 remakes and 12 original maps then the Classic Playlist could be included on day 1. It would give a home to people who want none of the innovations from recent Halos and Halo 4.

18

> All they need to do is create maps that function logically.
>
> If you’re playtesting it and in the middle of the game you have no feel for the flow of the game or where your enemies are or where they may be spawning, scrap it.
>
> All the best halo maps have a strong feeling of flow and logic to them.

I’d agree with that, very few maps on Reach have this.

Bring back the big maps, and more invasion!

Also no -Yoinking!- cop out forge maps should ship with the game! That -BLAM!- me right off with Reach.

19

> BTB Maps
> Something rather lacking in Halo 3 and Halo Reach were good BTB maps. Reach more so with its lack of actual maps and forge reliant maps. Whats something wrong with all of these maps? They had giant open middle feilds with tiny little bases. Look at something like Waterworks in Halo 2. A giant middle structure, with 3 entrances, 2 giant side caves that led to bases and, well. Bases that had 4 entrances into the base.

Really? I always felt that H3 had the best maps in terms of Big Team;

  • Valhalla (better than Blood Gulch)
  • Sandtrap
  • Avalanche
  • High Ground (Amazing for BTB 1 Flag)

Never got Relic remade though :frowning:

20

> I disagree. Since map design was so good in previous Halos the maps themselves have become staples in the series. Lockout is like the Battle Rifle. It just screams Halo. There are already so many great maps from Halo 2/3 that I would hate to lose them for Halo 4’s lifespan

As for your comment about 12 new and 12 old. Sorry, but I really don’t want that to be honest. As much as I love those old maps, I kind of want fresh battle feilds. You know? Reach offers 10 remakes already. Which is quite a lot when you think about it. And lets be honest. Most of them fail to be as great as they once were.

Lockout for example was a good casual/competitive map. However at High play it became a massive stand-off. One team on BR tower/Library while the other was forced to push from glass and hold S tower. It was great but not my favourite example for a multi-variant map. Midship is probably the best example. Reach has no map that really plays like that did. Zealot may not be a remake of it, but it had a great arena feel to it, minus the space section.

I just don’t want this game’s Multiplayer to be reduced to re-hash maps you know?

As for what someone said about Halo 3 BTB. I really felt restricted playing those maps. Their size, like Valhalla felt like a 6v6 map, same goes for Sandtrap. Yes it was larger, but it still didn’t feel like that, invade the other teams base that Halo CE/2 got with Coag, Sidewinder, Containment. Its not just the size of the maps but how they play. In Halo 3 most BTB maps felt as if they supported Slayer the best instead of CTF/Assualt.