Let's Help - SgtMaj Johnson

Games Halo Wars Series
1

It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.

The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).

I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.

Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.

In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.

Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.

By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.

Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.

His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?

Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.

Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.

2

Hopefully patch notes will come :+1:

I think outside of unit buffs, digging in deep as a T3 or T4 power would help. If it’s a T3 then I’d suggest some slight nerfs to not make it overbearing.

Also, Bunkers aren’t worth anything really. Buff health and armor to those babies. Since UNSC and Banished have access to building killers at T1 that shouldn’t be an issue.

That’s all I have off the top of my head.

3

unsc isnt viable due to losing total map control. and on unsc side, cutter beats all because of raid. make jackrabbit viable and johnson will become viable.

4

> 2533274812650916;1:
> It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
>
> The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
>
> I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
>
> Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
>
> In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
>
> Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
>
> By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
>
> Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
>
> His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
>
> Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
>
> Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.

make his ultimate halo 2 scarab drop
give him battle hardened
let his mechs do more damage and moving faster
give him his big green style back
and his hog
replace Kodiak for colossus
replace mantis with warthog
put mantis in HQ
place his ultimate tier 1 like atriox fortification

5

> 2535465784950395;4:
> > 2533274812650916;1:
> > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> >
> > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> >
> > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> >
> > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> >
> > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> >
> > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> >
> > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> >
> > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> >
> > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> >
> > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> >
> > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
>
> make his ultimate halo 2 scarab drop
> give him battle hardened
> let his mechs do more damage and moving faster
> give him his big green style back
> and his hog
> replace Kodiak for colossus
> replace mantis with warthog
> put mantis in HQ
> place his ultimate tier 1 like atriox fortification

Your telling me he should have free buildings from the start of the game? Lol

6

> 2533274931153795;5:
> > 2535465784950395;4:
> > > 2533274812650916;1:
> > > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> > >
> > > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> > >
> > > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> > >
> > > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> > >
> > > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> > >
> > > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> > >
> > > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> > >
> > > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> > >
> > > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> > >
> > > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
> >
> > make his ultimate halo 2 scarab drop
> > give him battle hardened
> > let his mechs do more damage and moving faster
> > give him his big green style back
> > and his hog
> > replace Kodiak for colossus
> > replace mantis with warthog
> > put mantis in HQ
> > place his ultimate tier 1 like atriox fortification
>
> Your telling me he should have free buildings from the start of the game? Lol

yes because Johnson need some love
he deserves to be one of the best unsc leaders :grin:

7

What if they replaced his ultimate with something else, and made digging in deep the reward for putting two points into digging in?

I have been skeptical about giving him a scarab, but the reasons people give for doing it are sound and fits his mech theme. Maybe his ultimate can be a scarab? Idk how busted having an invulnerable scarab and mech army for 10 seconds would be, but its unique to say the least.

8

> 2533274812650916;1:
> It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
>
> The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
>
> I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
>
> Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
>
> In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
>
> Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
>
> By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
>
> Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
>
> His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
>
> Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
>
> Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.

Would you believe it is safe to assume that Atriox’s leader powers in general are just over powered in comparison to others? IE - Fortifications just is too good on his wheel? If Atriox is brought down subtly to where his bases aren’t so cheap that it would help remove his clear advantage in the late game?

9

> 2533274792014876;8:
> > 2533274812650916;1:
> > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> >
> > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> >
> > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> >
> > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> >
> > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> >
> > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> >
> > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> >
> > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> >
> > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> >
> > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> >
> > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
>
> Would you believe it is safe to assume that Atriox’s leader powers in general are just over powered in comparison to others? IE - Fortifications just is too good on his wheel? If Atriox is brought down subtly to where his bases aren’t so cheap that it would help remove his clear advantage in the late game?

As an Atriox main, I believe Atriox is OP. Not based on eradication or anything else – JUST his fortification powers. Because they don’t just do one thing. They accomplish several objectives at once:

  1. Building bases is cheaper
  2. Building turrets and shields are cheaper
  3. UPGRADING bases is cheaper
  4. UPGRADING turrets is cheaper

So… two points in the early wheel and you are accomplishing four separate things. Show me the leader that compares to this.

This is why I play Atriox all the damn time. But I’d like an incentive to play someone else and toning down Atriox might do that for me.

10

his mechs simply are not worth there price or the time to build.

7 collossus 5 mantis 3 nightinggirls lose to 14 cyclops upgraded even with mech overcharge. while his army costed over 10k resourses 14 cyclops cost 3k like lol.

one thing he absolutely needs is cheaper and faster building mevhs, such a buff could be done through mech assembly which could replace his first uterly useless passive.

his ultimate should get a buff an idea would be 40% income boost ontop of free stuff oh and make turrets watchtowers free. base upgrades should be free aswell

it would be really nice if his bunker got a t0% healfh buff or something

11

This is like my 5th post of this but this is my suggestion to fix him.My idea before, and one that I stand by, is to put the Colossus in the role of the Cobra from HW1 and to fix the Mantis’ place as a support unit/Warthog/Scorpion. My opinion of Mantis and Colossus in spoiler:

Mantis was meant to be a heavier Warthog with the ability to function as a support unit with the painter upgrade. IMO the painter works wonders with high numbers of Mantis, but the unit is not very functional as either a cheaper Scorpion or a meaner Warthog.The Colossus is described as a slow moving, sniper unit. It’s equipped with a rail gun which is the anti-vehicle weapon in Halo Wars and HW2. As it stands, the range is less than that of a standard Wraith (as Lego mentioned after testing), it’s incredibly expensive in both resources and population, its damage isn’t impressive and it’s too fragile for its speed. It does not in any way represent its description, nor its appearance, nor does it justify its insane cost and build time.My balance suggestions below would place the Colossus as a T3, Grizzly equivalent to the Cobra from HW1. I also think the Grizzly’s population should be reduced to 9 and given a buff to make it worth it.The Mantis was the equivalent to the Scorpion in Halo 4 and 5, but obviously in this game it’s more so like the Warthog. Unfortunately it fills neither role effectively and is only good for painting targets. It either needs an increase to speed or armor/health for survivability. Give Stomp to the Mantis since it’s the unit that actually has Stomp in Halo 4 and 5.Colossus’ description and design makes it seem like the mech version of a Cobra, but its gameplay does not represent it, nor does it function as a useful vehicle. It’s too slow to evade anything, its damage isn’t impressive vs anything besides a Scarab and its armor/health/range make it a waste of resources and pop. I propose to:

  • Buff range to match the Wraith at least, minor damage boost, minor speed boost. I say minor because it’s partially what Mech Overdrive and Pelican Dropship seem to be for. It seemed to me a way to increase the units survivability to get into a position to attack or to retreat. - Replace stomp with a “lockdown” ability. Gives a massive boost to range (like Cobra from HW1), armor boost when locked down, increased damage to vehicles and buildings when locked down.Either put the Digging in Deep as an earlier tier ability, or replace it with something remotely useful. It sounds amazing on paper, but in practice it’s implemented at a point where I’d already have two maxed out bases and two minibases making it worthless. I like the idea of giving him a drop since he’s the only leader (I think) without one. Maybe change it to “Heavy Mech Drop” with 1 Colossus, 2 Mantis, 2 Cyclops and buff drop with Mech Overdrive or something. Or you could just give some bonus’ to his passive to increase armor and health of units with Digging in Deep (even makes sense with the ability name). It’d put it in line with Decimus’ and Colony’s tier 5 abilities.My only suggestion to Johnson himself is to do something with the Smart Missile upgrade. It could just be me, but I noticed it does next to no damage to anything. I think it should be some type of anti-air weapon and should get a decent boost to damage against air (just the missile though). Again this might have just been me, so I’d like feedback on that.

Replacing his Condor with a Scarab would be nice too.

12

• Replace Vulture with Pelican
• Switch Condor for H2 Scarab
• Replace marine rocket launcher with Spartan laser
• Buff mantis damage
• Buff mantis and colossus speed (slightly)

13

Mantis damage and health buff
Colossus damage and health buff
Veteran unit drop to replace the terrible increased line of sight. Maybe like a 3 veteran mantis drop at T3.
Increase bunker health and not cost population
Increase the turret siphon
Make ultimate be a T3 or T4 ability
Combat salvage would be nice

14

> 2533274812650916;1:
> It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
>
> The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
>
> I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
>
> Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
>
> In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
>
> Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
>
> By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
>
> Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
>
> His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
>
> Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
>
> Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.

That’s not his only pointless leader power but it is ultimately completely worthless because he has no ability to even effectively trade a base in the first place.

His power spike requires T3 power even though he has to use T2 units because they blow without painted. They end up green vs vehicles but ultimately get dicked on by them because their H.P. sucks or you don’t have EMP mac up. I personally think they should be green vs infantry and/or air so then its a no brainer that they lose to vehicles. The units just don’t have any survivability without Mech overcharge up. They really just need to be a heavy unit even though they take up the hogs slot.

Then just give him a passive in like bunkers tier that lowers the cost and makes them move faster.

15

auto heal or

> 2533274806879197;9:
> > 2533274792014876;8:
> > > 2533274812650916;1:
> > > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> > >
> > > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> > >
> > > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> > >
> > > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> > >
> > > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> > >
> > > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> > >
> > > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> > >
> > > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> > >
> > > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> > >
> > > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
> >
> > Would you believe it is safe to assume that Atriox’s leader powers in general are just over powered in comparison to others? IE - Fortifications just is too good on his wheel? If Atriox is brought down subtly to where his bases aren’t so cheap that it would help remove his clear advantage in the late game?
>
> As an Atriox main, I believe Atriox is OP. Not based on eradication or anything else – JUST his fortification powers. Because they don’t just do one thing. They accomplish several objectives at once:
>
> 1) Building bases is cheaper
> 2) Building turrets and shields are cheaper
> 3) UPGRADING bases is cheaper
> 4) UPGRADING turrets is cheaper
>
> So… two points in the early wheel and you are accomplishing four separate things. Show me the leader that compares to this.
>
> This is why I play Atriox all the damn time. But I’d like an incentive to play someone else and toning down Atriox might do that for me.

i think toning up to atriox would be better

16

> 2533274802858354;15:
> auto heal or
>
>
> > 2533274806879197;9:
> > > 2533274792014876;8:
> > > > 2533274812650916;1:
> > > > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> > > >
> > > > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> > > >
> > > > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> > > >
> > > > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> > > >
> > > > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> > > >
> > > > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> > > >
> > > > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> > > >
> > > > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> > > >
> > > > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
> > >
> > > Would you believe it is safe to assume that Atriox’s leader powers in general are just over powered in comparison to others? IE - Fortifications just is too good on his wheel? If Atriox is brought down subtly to where his bases aren’t so cheap that it would help remove his clear advantage in the late game?
> >
> > As an Atriox main, I believe Atriox is OP. Not based on eradication or anything else – JUST his fortification powers. Because they don’t just do one thing. They accomplish several objectives at once:
> >
> > 1) Building bases is cheaper
> > 2) Building turrets and shields are cheaper
> > 3) UPGRADING bases is cheaper
> > 4) UPGRADING turrets is cheaper
> >
> > So… two points in the early wheel and you are accomplishing four separate things. Show me the leader that compares to this.
> >
> > This is why I play Atriox all the damn time. But I’d like an incentive to play someone else and toning down Atriox might do that for me.
>
> i think toning up to atriox would be better

please no, the fact that you can spam shields for dirt cheap is already op.

if they buff atreox this games meta will only be him. its so easy to 3 base 4 ahield gena and spam units from 5 buildings.

17

> 2533274904506600;16:
> > 2533274802858354;15:
> > auto heal or
> >
> >
> > > 2533274806879197;9:
> > > > 2533274792014876;8:
> > > > > 2533274812650916;1:
> > > > > It’s no secret among the competitive community that Johnson just doesn’t stack up. His early game suffers, his mid game is decent at best, and his late game is… weird. It can only be called that.
> > > > >
> > > > > The point of this thread is to brainstorm ideas of how we can make him viable. Sure, you can fire up Team War and use Johnson to win most of your games against the average Joe. That’s not what we are talking about. In evenly skilled, high level matches, he will be outshined by leaders who do what he does (turtle), but better (Atriox).
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to start with his ult, digging in deep. It’s an interesting ability but it simply doesn’t deserve to be called an ultimate ability. Atriox, with 2 points in Fortifications and a tier 3 fortify upgrade, can get new bases for 3 supply and 80 something power. So, free. He gets them for free. He can also upgrade them quicker, throw cheap turrets (shields) on them and slowly consume the map.
> > > > >
> > > > > Johnson has to pay full price, they upgrade the same as every other UNSC leader, and turrets remain the same price unless you took two points into digging in, which would never be recommended.
> > > > >
> > > > > In other words, atriox and his tier 1 ability are able to outperform an ultimate ability. That’s not okay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sure, they do different things but the idea is the same: expand and take the map. But with diminished returns, Johnson benefits very little from having 4 bases on the map, unlike atriox who has the benefit of shields to simply deny the enemy of the map. Johnson CAN do that, but his economic boost is not in taking or building the base or turrets, it lies in providing the base with buildings, which brings me to my next point.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the time ultimates are unlocked, most players will have 2 bases. That’s really all you need in this game from a gameplay standpoint. Anything more is area/expansion denial. We’ve seen in a recent tournament that a player with 1 or 2 bases can keep up economically with a player who has 5 or so bases.
> > > > >
> > > > > Johnson’s ultimate is useful for base trades which is entirely circumstantial and it’s much more logical to put a point in combat salvage, maxing out EMP MAC, or mech overcharge.
> > > > >
> > > > > His ultimate isn’t the only part of his kit that needs love. In Halo 2 he told us that “if God is love, you can call me Cupid.” Well Johnson needs some love. So what are your ideas to help him out? Buff Mantis and colossus? Make digging in deep a tier 4 and giving him a new ult?
> > > > >
> > > > > Because I’ll be honest. He’s fun to play as. He really is. I think he’s underrated but at the same time I fully recognise he needs some help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance. It also just dawned upon me that we might get full patch notes today and he may be buffed into the sky like they did with Decimus. So this thread may be completely irrelevant or even more relevant by the end of the day.
> > > >
> > > > Would you believe it is safe to assume that Atriox’s leader powers in general are just over powered in comparison to others? IE - Fortifications just is too good on his wheel? If Atriox is brought down subtly to where his bases aren’t so cheap that it would help remove his clear advantage in the late game?
> > >
> > > As an Atriox main, I believe Atriox is OP. Not based on eradication or anything else – JUST his fortification powers. Because they don’t just do one thing. They accomplish several objectives at once:
> > >
> > > 1) Building bases is cheaper
> > > 2) Building turrets and shields are cheaper
> > > 3) UPGRADING bases is cheaper
> > > 4) UPGRADING turrets is cheaper
> > >
> > > So… two points in the early wheel and you are accomplishing four separate things. Show me the leader that compares to this.
> > >
> > > This is why I play Atriox all the damn time. But I’d like an incentive to play someone else and toning down Atriox might do that for me.
> >
> > i think toning up to atriox would be better
>
> please no, the fact that you can spam shields for dirt cheap is already op.
>
> if they buff atreox this games meta will only be him. its so easy to 3 base 4 ahield gena and spam units from 5 buildings.

im talkin bout to his hero

18

I’ll list a number of suggestions that I think could improve Johnson.

  • His Ultimate leader power Digging in deep should include all bases are tier 3, include shields on all turrets and buildings, increase health of all buildings and turrets and increase damage of turrets as well as its current ability. - EMP MAC blast either needs a buff or a tier 3 - Colossus’s need a shield - Greater health syphoning on digging in and Siege turrets and Kodiaks have cluster rounds increasing damage and AOE - Mech overcharge also increases damage