Lets grab a chair and talk about the Jetpack in The Arena for a moment

I don’t know if anyone else noticed, but with the new TU gametype facing a full team using the jetpack is an instant lose no matter what you or your team does. Especially if it’s an open map like Enclosed or asylum, it’s getting ridiculous I swear.

I suggest that 343i starts looking into Arena and get rid of the Jetpack so I can go back to playing Arena again.

jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.

I agree that jet pack should not be in arena or double team.

jetpack (and sprint to an extent) completely circumvents map control, which is a cornerstone of halo’s competitive gameplay. I hate having to use jetpack or being at a disadvantage to everyone else, whether its in arena or any other playlist. its pretty much the only AA i use, because you can completely demolish another team’s setup in seconds with it. jetpack makes matches too random, because there is really no way to defend against an all angles attack from opposing jetpackers.

jetpack also causes way too much map imbalance. lets look at reflection for example. if 1 player on the red team uses jetpack, he can grab the rockets, then fly up to the sniper balcony, kill any blue’s dumb enough to go up there, take the sniper, while another teammate using sprint or even jetpack can rush the shotgun and assist him from the long hallway. for the blue team, you can get the sword and thats it, its not even possible to contest for any other weapons on the map.

the red team should get rockets and shotgun, the blue team should get sniper and sword, but jetpack completely imbalances the gameplay on this map. the upper balcony used to take skill to hold down, 1 member guarding the lift, 1 on each long hallway and 1 on the front. now its impossible, 1 or 2 jetpack users flying in tossing grenades clears it all up in seconds, completely ruining the flow of the map and removing the skill necessary to dominate the match.

> jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.

Yeah i agree, but you just imagine a team of 4 jetpacking 24/7. you kill one of them he spawns and jetpack keeps shooting you till you die or lose map control. how is that the maps fault?

> > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
>
> Yeah i agree, but you just imagine a team of 4 jetpacking 24/7. you kill one of them he spawns and jetpack keeps shooting you till you die or lose map control. how is that the maps fault?

it’s the maps fault for allowing jet pack to have those lines of sight.

> > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> >
> > Yeah i agree, but you just imagine a team of 4 jetpacking 24/7. you kill one of them he spawns and jetpack keeps shooting you till you die or lose map control. how is that the maps fault?
>
> it’s the maps fault for allowing jet pack to have those lines of sight.

Yeah but there is no real solution for the jetpack every single map has a wide area made for DMR and sniper battle we cant get rid of that just so we can have the jetpack in the game.

Come on people! Where is the Halo community power?
We need 343i to see this!

> jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.

How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?

> > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
>
> How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?

if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.

> > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> >
> > How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?
>
> if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.

Every single map in the series has those advantages. The game would be boring without them. Want to play nothing but reskinned Octagons? Oh wait, jetpack still gives an unfair height advantage.

Have you seen good jetpack abusers? There is no risk with them, just reward. You can’t strafe, but you fly above players’ heads faster than they can look up. All someone needs to do is ly up, spray their Grenades/AR/DMR, or rain Rockets down, and guarantee a kill.

> > > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> > >
> > > How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?
> >
> > if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.
>
> Every single map in the series has those advantages. The game would be boring without them. Want to play nothing but reskinned Octagons? Oh wait, jetpack still gives an unfair height advantage.
>
> Have you seen good jetpack abusers? There is no risk with them, just reward. You can’t strafe, but you fly above players’ heads faster than they can look up. All someone needs to do is ly up, spray their Grenades/AR/DMR, or rain Rockets down, and guarantee a kill.

the height advantage isn’t unfair if the height is restritcted, yes every map in the series had these advantage and you could just spam the ju,p button to obtain it which is realtivley the same thing when it comes down to it, though, reach maps have to take AA’s into consideration which currently none appear to which is why jet pack and other AA’s in general just break the gameplay on the maps.

yes i’ve seem good jet pack abusers and the problem doesn’t lie with floating height advantage, it lies more abusal of areas that they can reach that are soft killed, since they can actually stand there they are gaining a height advantage with the ability to actually move around as well, the other issues is with the maps main lines of sight breakers being on ground level on not above, yes i undestand top control is important which is why maps are done this way but these maps could have structures that break up these lines of sight and be obstructive to these jet packers.

all these issues can be negated through the design of the map, though, because forge is very restricting makes this very hard to accomplish without framerate issues.

> > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> >
> > How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?
>
> if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.

jetpacking in combat is more reward than risk most of the time if you know what you are doing, trust me, i abuse it all of the time. thats not the most annoying thing about jetpack tho, the way it changes the game from strategy driven to spray and pray is the most annoying part. look at what i wrote about how jetpack ruins reflection, it does the same for pretty much any map.

look at countdown, you can get pretty much anywhere on the map with a jetpack in mere seconds. you can fly from 1st to 3rd level, basically ruining any chance of getting your squad settled in. i routinely go +15 and up while playing that map because of abusing the jetpack.

> > > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> > >
> > > How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?
> >
> > if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.
>
> jetpacking in combat is more reward than risk most of the time if you know what you are doing, trust me, i abuse it all of the time. thats not the most annoying thing about jetpack tho, the way it changes the game from strategy driven to spray and pray is the most annoying part. look at what i wrote about how jetpack ruins reflection, it does the same for pretty much any map.
>
> look at countdown, you can get pretty much anywhere on the map with a jetpack in mere seconds. you can fly from 1st to 3rd level, basically ruining any chance of getting your squad settled in. i routinely go +15 and up while playing that map because of abusing the jetpack.

halo hasn’t been strategy based since CE, instead its more of an agressive run and gun style of play, the basics strategies such as map control and spawn trapping will always be a part of halo but there is no real strategy involved in obtaining these, instead it is an agressive push.

> > > > > jet pack is fine, the problem is that maps, what arena needs is community maps specifically designed for competitive gameplay based on reach’s gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > How is spawning with an item that lets you defy all geometry on a map, and fly over everyone’s heads, and avoid any explosion fair or even good for competitive play?
> > >
> > > if maps remove those advantages then it would be good, though, it’s risk vs reward, with jetpack, you get height advantage at loss of good movement control, essentialy, you can go up but you cannot strafe, you can negate some grenades with ease but be a sitting duck floating in the air, this can get worse if the maps have geometry that intefiers with the advantages of jet pack and makes the disadvantages worse.
> >
> > jetpacking in combat is more reward than risk most of the time if you know what you are doing, trust me, i abuse it all of the time. thats not the most annoying thing about jetpack tho, the way it changes the game from strategy driven to spray and pray is the most annoying part. look at what i wrote about how jetpack ruins reflection, it does the same for pretty much any map.
> >
> > look at countdown, you can get pretty much anywhere on the map with a jetpack in mere seconds. you can fly from 1st to 3rd level, basically ruining any chance of getting your squad settled in. i routinely go +15 and up while playing that map because of abusing the jetpack.
>
> halo hasn’t been strategy based since CE, instead its more of an agressive run and gun style of play, the basics strategies such as map control and spawn trapping will always be a part of halo but there is no real strategy involved in obtaining these, instead it is an agressive push.

Halo 2 had tons of strategy, but you are right that strategy has gone down in each new title. At least in previous titles (Halo 3 and Halo 2) a team could lock down map control with a good set-up. Sprint and Jetpack allow easier aggressive pushes, and remove the “talent” (looking for a better word here, sneakyness or creativity maybe) of flanking. In previous titles, players were known for being excellent flankers, but the ability to be good at flanking is not as important because of jetpack and sprint.

there is still much strategy involved, sure not as much as previous games, but its there. i start off every map the exact same way, because of my strategy.

on countdown, i rush the shotgun hole, trying to grenade the other teams and pick them off with the dmr, so i can get the shotgun and take out enemies advancing to the 3rd floor.

on hemorhage, i rush the revenant and give support to the wraith and my other teammates. these are all strategies.

on asylum, if the enemy team is rushing a lot, i sit far back and pick off the enemy team without trying to move to close to the front of our area, if they are hanging back i focus on the needle rifle ramp and try to draw them out, these are all stratgies

i dont just start off the game/respawn and run towards the first enemy i see, everything i do has a reason behind it and a deliberate motive

> the height advantage isn’t unfair if the height is restritcted

You can still fly over my head faster than I can look up. Or should all the ceilings only be 8ft high?

yes every map in the series had these advantage and you could just spam the ju,p button to obtain it which is realtivley the same thing when it comes down to it
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You’re really comparing trick jumps to jetpacking? Really? I’m not even going to dignify that with a response.

The problem with jetpacking is that it essentially forces you into a 1v1 battle. When players are restricted to the ground, you can usually predict where players are or where they are going (better players are typically better at this). If you are forced to engage a player, you can usually still see a significant portion of the map, as well as being able to tell if additional players are starting to engage you, so you can decide to exit the battle if necessary. With jetpacking, you are repeatedly forced into impossible situations. If a player jetpacks at you, you either have to begin looking upward and engage him 1v1, or simply run away. Once you make the choice to look upward, you are essentially locked into that battle until one of you dies. Also, he has the advantage because he’s shooting down at your head. While you are looking up and he’s looking down, he can see everything else on the map and make decisions. While you are looking up, all you can see is that player and the sky. You lose track of what’s going on around you. If another player jetpacks up either to your left or right, there’s nothing you can do. Team shooting becomes less effective, because you lose reference points.

Designing maps to specifically work around jetpacking reduces a lot of the classic Halo designs, like Lockout-style maps (bridges and platforms). Even if you put a soft-kill up there, you still have 10 seconds to battle, which is more than enough time, and hard-kills are too abrupt.

Jetpacking in itself is not really a problem. If you could limit a team to only being able to have 1 or 2 jetpackers (or you used it as a map pickup) that would be okay. It’s just teams of all jetpackers change the game into something that isn’t all that fun, regardless of the difficulty of countering it. I would not shed a tear to see jetpacks gone from Arena.

talk? theres nothing to talk about.

its blatantly obvious to anyone with even a SLIGHT CLUE what competitive play is that JET PACK IS THE MOST LAUGHABLE MECHANIC halo has EVER SEEN as far as competitive play goes.

i mean really… how, exactly, do you defend people standing in exploit spots for either 10 seconds (enough time to wipe an entire team), or indefinitely? (LOL DERP?)

how, exactly, do you defend against red team being able to get blue teams sniper rifle on reflection? (DERP?)

how, exactly, do you defend against a mechanic that blows chunks in the core concept of MAP CONTROL?

sorry, but you cant. the only people who actually defend jet pack in ARENA are casual players who shouldnt have a say in ARENA settings because ARENA isnt supposed to be a casual playlist, its supposed to be a COMPETITIVE playlist.

there is ONE exception to this rule, and that is sword base. on sword base jet pack actually HELPS the map, but really thats only because the map plays terribly to begin with.

why does ARENA have such a low population? its almost like the people it was INTENDED FOR are ALIENATED by the TERRIBLE SETTINGS.