Lets go back to the old models.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I miss the old green marines, not the ones with the paintball masks in halo 4. I miss the Australians, Mexicans, and female marines, the marines lack diversity now.

What exactly happened to the grunts and jackals? They look so… Not halo like anymore, now the grunts look like they belong in Aliens Vs Predator, and the Jackals look like they should be on discovery channel. In the past halo games jackals were bird like creatures with beaks, now they’re raptors. Seriously? What happened? The grunts really need to be turned back into those cuddly cute english speaking things we’ve been with sense halo CE. Elites look like they belong in GoW now due to their skin and lack of armor.

Also what was the purpose of removing ODSTS? I mean yeah Ik they got spartans now, but thats another thing I kinda don’t like. Masterchief being the only spartan made it feel like you were the UNSC’s last hope, now there is all these other spartans running around. I know they aren’t as good as masterchief, but now it kinda makes him feel less “special” But yeah, sorry for my grammar, I’m typing this on an ipad and it’s a pain.

2

> I miss the old green marines, not the ones with the paintball masks in halo 4. I miss the Australians, Mexicans, and female marines, the marines lack diversity now.
>
> What exactly happened to the grunts and jackals? They look so… Not halo like anymore, now the grunts look like they belong in Aliens Vs Predator, and the Jackals look like they should be on discovery channel. In the past halo games jackals were bird like creatures with beaks, now they’re raptors. Seriously? What happened? The grunts really need to be turned back into those cuddly cute english speaking things we’ve been with sense halo CE. Elites look like they belong in GoW now due to their skin and lack of armor.
>
> Also what was the purpose of removing ODSTS? I mean yeah Ik they got spartans now, but thats another thing I kinda don’t like. <mark>Masterchief being the only spartan made it feel like you were the UNSC’s last hope, now there is all these other spartans running around.</mark> I know they aren’t as good as masterchief, but now it kinda makes him feel less “special” But yeah, sorry for my grammar, I’m typing this on an ipad and it’s a pain.

He never was the last Spartan. As for Chief being less special…he seemed to be the only one in Halo 4, heck even compared to the Spartans in Spartan Ops, to actually do anything important.

3

I agree with you that the soldiers lack diversity.
Besides, the current versions don’t really suit my imagination of what a regular soldier would look like or rather be equipped with in the future.
I think the troops in Reach looked quite good in comparison.

However, when it comes to the Grunts and Jackels I think they are well designed in Halo 4.
I think they fit their descriptions they have in the books.

4

I couldn’t agree more OP. It seems like everything from the previous games was just tossed out the window. Warthog? Green and different body. Pelican? Just disgusting looking. Chief? How exactly did he get new armor, and why is visor not gold? Marines? There went that classic (and awesome-looking) helmet they had always had. Grunts? Unrecognizable. Jackals? Are they supposed to be intimidating or something–they’re not. Ghost? Black.

It just makes me really mad. It’s change for change’s sake, and there’s no other explanation. They couldn’t even give the grunts the triangular methane tanks, or get the Carbine’s green-gas-thing at the right time (it’s BEFORE, NOT after you replace the magazine!!!)

I really want the funny grunts back. I’d happy if they at least did that, even if it was IWHBYD only.

And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.

5

> I agree with you that the soldiers lack diversity.
> Besides, the current versions don’t really suit my imagination of what a regular soldier would look like or rather be equipped with in the future.
> I think the troops in Reach looked quite good in comparison.

i remember someone making a good point, that the UNSC’s troops are fighting against plasma; projectiles that can very easily penetrate multiple layers of armor, so the UNSC could’ve very easily shifted it’s focus on making armor more MOBILE than Protective.

if you can’t make armor that Blocks incoming fire, you try to make armor that can evade said projectiles

however, Halo 4 marines produced this idea on a bad way. Like to common comparison, Halo 4 Marine armor resembles paintballing gear more than it does Military-grade combat gear. It dosen’t look functional, nor protective, it just looks out of place.

given the above, i wouldn’t mind the amount of detail that Reach Troopers received, it looked so functional, and cool, and the randomly generated customization meant that you very rarely found two troopers that looked Exactly the same.

6

I seriously hope 343i see’s this, I really would love to see them return to the old design

7

> > I agree with you that the soldiers lack diversity.
> > Besides, the current versions don’t really suit my imagination of what a regular soldier would look like or rather be equipped with in the future.
> > I think the troops in Reach looked quite good in comparison.
>
> i remember someone making a good point, that the UNSC’s troops are fighting against plasma; projectiles that can very easily penetrate multiple layers of armor, so the UNSC could’ve very easily shifted it’s focus on making armor more MOBILE than Protective.
>
> if you can’t make armor that Blocks incoming fire, you try to make armor that can evade said projectiles
>
>
> however, Halo 4 marines produced this idea on a bad way. Like to common comparison, Halo 4 Marine armor resembles paintballing gear more than it does Military-grade combat gear. It dosen’t look functional, nor protective, it just looks out of place.
>
> given the above, i wouldn’t mind the amount of detail that Reach Troopers received, it looked so functional, and cool, and the randomly generated customization meant that you very rarely found two troopers that looked Exactly the same.

The Marine’s armor never was great at stopping plasma rounds, but it was far from being heavy and restrictive of movement. That’s not a valid reason to outfit Marines 500+ years in the future with modern day MOLLE vests and kevlar/fiber armor. If you’re aiming for only mobility you may as well have all the Marines run around in T-shirts and jeans, because plasma bolts will go through either just as easy. With the alloy armor that the Marines had in CE-Reach you might end up walking away wearing molten and scorched armor, but you won’t be dead.

8

> I miss the old green marines, not the ones with the paintball masks in halo 4. I miss the Australians, Mexicans, and female marines, the marines lack diversity now.

Exactly.

> What exactly happened to the grunts and jackals? They look so… Not halo like anymore, now the grunts look like they belong in Aliens Vs Predator, and the Jackals look like they should be on discovery channel. In the past halo games jackals were bird like creatures with beaks, now they’re raptors. Seriously? What happened? The grunts really need to be turned back into those cuddly cute english speaking things we’ve been with sense halo CE. Elites look like they belong in GoW now due to their skin and lack of armor.

I think the Grunts in Halo 4 are the lesser evil. The Grunts in Halo 3 and subsequent games just lost the charm they had in CE/H2. I particularly liked how CE Grunts could have differing methane tanks (“curlbacks”).

I don’t really mind the Jackals, though I did like how some CE Jackals could come with helmets.

The Elites in Halo 4 are definitely abysmal. Only the Zealot looks fearsome. The Elites in CE, H2, and Reach were ideal IMO.

9

> And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.

I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.

They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.

Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.

10

> > And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.
>
> I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.
>
> They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.
>
> Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.

The anatomy of an entire species, like Grunts, changing cannot be explained by the dissolving of the Covenant. At no point do the books say, “And henceforth, the Unggoy were no longer Arthropods, but instead Reptilian. Despite the clear logical problems associated with a cold-blooded Reptilian species’ homeworld being a frozen moon. Also, please ignore that our now Reptilian Grunts have Mammalian features like a six-pack, a belly button, and primate-like buttocks.”

11

I wish they’d get the old voice actors back, imo they’re much more better sounding than the halo 4’s voice actors, and much more halo like

12

> > > And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.
> >
> > I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.
> >
> > They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.
> >
> > Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.
>
> The anatomy of an entire species, like Grunts, changing cannot be explained by the dissolving of the Covenant. At no point do the books say, “And henceforth, the Unggoy were no longer Arthropods, but instead Reptilian. Despite the clear logical problems associated with a cold-blooded Reptilian species’ homeworld being a frozen moon. Also, please ignore that our now Reptilian Grunts have Mammalian features like a six-pack, a belly button, and primate-like buttocks.”

Because there are no books directly covering this diverse and new type of Unggoy 6 years after Halo 3…

Species diversity. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Humans, all of species diversity. If one group is exposed to a different environment for a while, they will genetically and physically adapt.

The Jackals in Halo 4 look the way they are because of their location. Isolated on the continent of Ibie’sh on Eayn, they retained their reptilian heritage, where other Kig-Yar changed.

A similar possibility is open for the Unggoy. Though I do wish there was an explanation for their appearance, like there was for the Kig-Yar. I’d be dissapointed if there wasn’t any diversity within Covenant species, considering how distant groups of these populations would likely be from one another.

Besides, it does make sense for Jul to be enlisting the abnormal and rare examples of species for his cause. They would perhaps be less likely to be missed and reveal his plans, and it allows him to avoid going directly to main planets and continents. Secrecy, while he figures out exactly what he’s chasing down at Requiem.

13

> > > And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.
> >
> > I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.
> >
> > They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.
> >
> > Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.
>
> The anatomy of an entire species, like Grunts, changing cannot be explained by the dissolving of the Covenant. At no point do the books say, “And henceforth, the Unggoy were no longer Arthropods, but instead Reptilian. Despite the clear logical problems associated with a cold-blooded Reptilian species’ homeworld being a frozen moon. Also, please ignore that our now Reptilian Grunts have Mammalian features like a six-pack, a belly button, and primate-like buttocks.”

Good point Assassin,

They do look very Reptilian in H4. I was thinking more of why the Armour is very different from previous Halo games.

14

> A similar possibility is open for the Unggoy. Though I do wish there was an explanation for their appearance, like there was for the Kig-Yar. I’d be dissapointed if there wasn’t any diversity within Covenant species, considering how distant groups of these populations would likely be from one another.

I’m assuming that the difference between the Halo 4 Unggoy and the ones that we’ve previously seen was a result of things such as inbreeding and population separation.

As we all know, the Unggoy’s homeworld, Ballaho, is an extremely terrible place to live. With that being said, we can assume that the immense hostility of the planet likely resulted in the Unggoy gaining a much higher reproduction rate.

If at some point during their time in the Covenant, and a small section of their total population was confined in a separate habitat, the high reproduction rates of the Unggoy that were confined in that habitat would have likely resulted in many genetic mutations (having leathery skin rather than chitinous) due to inbreeding, and then rapid evolution to the point where only leather-skinned Unggoy remained within the segregated population.

It’s like different breeds of dogs, but on a larger scale.

15

> > > > And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.
> > >
> > > I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.
> > >
> > > They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.
> > >
> > > Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.
> >
> > The anatomy of an entire species, like Grunts, changing cannot be explained by the dissolving of the Covenant. At no point do the books say, “And henceforth, the Unggoy were no longer Arthropods, but instead Reptilian. Despite the clear logical problems associated with a cold-blooded Reptilian species’ homeworld being a frozen moon. Also, please ignore that our now Reptilian Grunts have Mammalian features like a six-pack, a belly button, and primate-like buttocks.”
>
> Because there are no books directly covering this diverse and new type of Unggoy 6 years after Halo 3…
>
> Species diversity. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Humans, all of species diversity. If one group is exposed to a different environment for a while, they will genetically and physically adapt.
>
> The Jackals in Halo 4 look the way they are because of their location. Isolated on the continent of Ibie’sh on Eayn, they retained their reptilian heritage, where other Kig-Yar changed.
>
> A similar possibility is open for the Unggoy. Though I do wish there was an explanation for their appearance, like there was for the Kig-Yar. I’d be dissapointed if there wasn’t any diversity within Covenant species, considering how distant groups of these populations would likely be from one another.
>
> Besides, it does make sense for Jul to be enlisting the abnormal and rare examples of species for his cause. They would perhaps be less likely to be missed and reveal his plans, and it allows him to avoid going directly to main planets and continents. Secrecy, while he figures out exactly what he’s chasing down at Requiem.

Jackals are still the only known species in the Halo lore to still have a different species that shares an ancestral heritage.

The explanation 343i gave of H4 Jackals being another subspecies, like Skirmishers, seems more like a last minute excuse for the poor art style choice of trying to make all the aliens look like scary monsters.
Grunts got scales, had their jaws pushed out, nose tube added to show off the ferocious teeth, and got lots of claws.
Elites got scales all over their bodies, sharp claws, mandibles messed with to pull away more of their face when they move, and had less armor to make them look more like animals.

This was done on purpose, not for the sake of canon or any reason other than to make them look frightening and monstrous.

To any Halo fan that knows about the story and art of the previous games this should be upsetting. Elites are not animals and monsters, they are an intelligent species that has a strong warrior-culture bound by honor and discipline. Grunts only have their strength in numbers, they appear cute at first but they’re more than willing to try and bite your legs off, so long as they aren’t sleeping. Hunters never got the credit they deserved either, and H4 removing more of their armor and giving them googly eyes didn’t help convey the complicated creatures they are. GoO talks about how one moment they can be in battle laying waste to soldiers, then they casually stop to recite war poetry.

Bottom line is that 343i screwed up with the art designs in many ways. The redesigns of the Covenant species shouldn’t be excused any further than it already has been with the Jackals, there’s nothing at all to gain from not admitting this was a mistake.

16

Personally I prefer the reach/CEA marine models armour wise. However I would like more diversity in them because a lot of them look identical

17

> > i remember someone making a good point, that the UNSC’s troops are fighting against plasma; projectiles that can very easily penetrate multiple layers of armor, so the UNSC could’ve very easily shifted it’s focus on making armor more MOBILE than Protective.
> >
> > if you can’t make armor that Blocks incoming fire, you try to make armor that can evade said projectiles
> >
> >
> > however, Halo 4 marines produced this idea on a bad way. Like to common comparison, Halo 4 Marine armor resembles paintballing gear more than it does Military-grade combat gear. It dosen’t look functional, nor protective, it just looks out of place.
> >
> > given the above, i wouldn’t mind the amount of detail that Reach Troopers received, it looked so functional, and cool, and the randomly generated customization meant that you very rarely found two troopers that looked Exactly the same.
>
> The Marine’s armor never was great at stopping plasma rounds, but it was far from being heavy and restrictive of movement. That’s not a valid reason to outfit Marines 500+ years in the future with modern day MOLLE vests and kevlar/fiber armor. If you’re aiming for only mobility you may as well have all the Marines run around in T-shirts and jeans, because plasma bolts will go through either just as easy. With the alloy armor that the Marines had in CE-Reach you might end up walking away wearing molten and scorched armor, but you won’t be dead.

In addition to what Assassin said, even though you are unable to create protection that stops plasma rounds you would still equip your troops with armor that protects them from shrapnels, heat, fall/collision damage, weather etc.
Besides, wouldn’t it be better to equip it’s regular troops with some kind of all-purpose gear, since the Covenant (Plasma) hasn’t been the only enemy the UNSC has to expect.

18

True, I HATE new spartan-marine models.

THIS ISN´T CALL OF DUTY, THIS IS HALO!!

Why change something that was ok?

19

> > > > > And, to Swift, Halo CE came first. I’ll use that to base my judgments from.
> > > >
> > > > I think Swift is correct about the Grunts and Jackals appearances.
> > > >
> > > > They are not a part of the covenant anymore, there is no covenant anymore. And is why Grunts, Jackals and even Elites look different in Halo 4.
> > > >
> > > > Halo CE was set before the covenant downfall. Halo 4 is set after. The latest books (GrassLands and Thusrdays Wars) are about this. There is a 3rd novel as well.
> > >
> > > The anatomy of an entire species, like Grunts, changing cannot be explained by the dissolving of the Covenant. At no point do the books say, “And henceforth, the Unggoy were no longer Arthropods, but instead Reptilian. Despite the clear logical problems associated with a cold-blooded Reptilian species’ homeworld being a frozen moon. Also, please ignore that our now Reptilian Grunts have Mammalian features like a six-pack, a belly button, and primate-like buttocks.”
> >
> > Because there are no books directly covering this diverse and new type of Unggoy 6 years after Halo 3…
> >
> > Species diversity. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Humans, all of species diversity. If one group is exposed to a different environment for a while, they will genetically and physically adapt.
> >
> > The Jackals in Halo 4 look the way they are because of their location. Isolated on the continent of Ibie’sh on Eayn, they retained their reptilian heritage, where other Kig-Yar changed.
> >
> > A similar possibility is open for the Unggoy. Though I do wish there was an explanation for their appearance, like there was for the Kig-Yar. I’d be dissapointed if there wasn’t any diversity within Covenant species, considering how distant groups of these populations would likely be from one another.
> >
> > Besides, it does make sense for Jul to be enlisting the abnormal and rare examples of species for his cause. They would perhaps be less likely to be missed and reveal his plans, and it allows him to avoid going directly to main planets and continents. Secrecy, while he figures out exactly what he’s chasing down at Requiem.
>
> Jackals are still the only known species in the Halo lore to still have a different species that shares an ancestral heritage.
>
> The explanation 343i gave of H4 Jackals being another subspecies, like Skirmishers, seems more like a last minute excuse for the poor art style choice of trying to make all the aliens look like scary monsters.
> Grunts got scales, had their jaws pushed out, nose tube added to show off the ferocious teeth, and got lots of claws.
> Elites got scales all over their bodies, sharp claws, mandibles messed with to pull away more of their face when they move, and had less armor to make them look more like animals.
>
> This was done on purpose, not for the sake of canon or any reason other than to make them look frightening and monstrous.
>
> To any Halo fan that knows about the story and art of the previous games this should be upsetting. Elites are not animals and monsters, they are an intelligent species that has a strong warrior-culture bound by honor and discipline. Grunts only have their strength in numbers, they appear cute at first but they’re more than willing to try and bite your legs off, so long as they aren’t sleeping. Hunters never got the credit they deserved either, and H4 removing more of their armor and giving them googly eyes didn’t help convey the complicated creatures they are. GoO talks about how one moment they can be in battle laying waste to soldiers, then they casually stop to recite war poetry.
>
> Bottom line is that 343i screwed up with the art designs in many ways. The redesigns of the Covenant species shouldn’t be excused any further than it already has been with the Jackals, there’s nothing at all to gain from not admitting this was a mistake.

Only known. It is highly unlikely they are the only one. Perhaps the original Covenant simply preferred a certain type of Grunt in the later years of the war, so we never see the new ones.

Of course it was done on purpose with art in mind, but that doesn’t mean story explanations don’t apply. The only time we saw an Elite “sleeveless” was in Halo 2 with bad lighting and less graphical power. Scales could be more common than we think, and this type of Elite shows it more.

I would find it cool to have all species running around. Show species diversity, and make it so you never find two enemies that look the same.

20

hehe this feels like a nostaliga type of thread.