Let's Fix Big Team Battle!

As the Big Team Slayer playlist stands, there is no doubt an issue with the Matchmaking lineup, randoms matching with teams, and betrayals. The weighting on specific maps and gametypes can give a dull and frustrating experience, and some of the maps in there are in great need of tweaks or just removal altogether. Listing these problems and suggesting solutions may influence the Matchmaking overlords of 343I to better the experience in said playlist. I’m going to list some of my personal thoughts, and feel free to show the community some of your thoughts on this confused playlist.

Below is my opinion on Big Team Battle. Skip if you wish.

First, I have a problem with the Matchmaking lineup. Too often are the same objective types listed for vote. The voting usually consists of Bomb, CTF, and 1 flag on both vote “ballots”. Nothing is wrong with these gametypes, but they are a lot more fun in moderation. In my opinion, Slayer should always be in the first voting round. Maybe even twice so you have a little variety in which map you can play slayer on. If they really don’t want slayer, they will go none of the above and find an objective gametype they want.

The next thing that concerns me is the maps in the playlist. Some of them need some heavy updates. I for one take great issue with Hemorrhage. The map is centered around sniping and vehicles. But oh wait! Don’t touch that sniper! It belongs to everyone else on the team and they’ll kill you for it. Anyone on foot with no sniper is going to have one hell of a boring/frustrating match. If you happen to get spawn trapped, guess what; you don’t spawn inside of your base! Or at least rarely. Even if no opposition is in or near it. Even if you do spawn in the base, there isn’t much you can do. It usually takes a minute or two for the enemies to clear up, which is a large chunk of the match being spawn killed or throwing grenades out the door hoping a vehicle will go over it. And this is just Hemorrhage. I do also believe that Renegade should replace the Banshees with the Falcon. But that’s more of an opinion than a problem. I could go on for a while about map issues.

My next concern that I brought up in the last rant was for betrayals. It’s a constant thing in this playlist! Almost every match you have someone bothering you for your weapons, vehicles, or even the flag. This is a bit tougher to fix, but there are a few ideas that would work. Not sure if any of my propositions are possible with Megalo, but I’ll give it a shot.

  • Always get the Boot/Forgive Prompt. If you betray, you are subject to the one you betrayed every single time. Not ideal for all the chaos, but it would stop the weapon betrayals. This would be best with the forgiven message listed below…
  • Betrayer can’t pick up weapons dropped by the betrayee(word?). May help a bit, but you might still get betrayed out of frustration.
  • Remove friendly fire. Not a popular idea, but it would be helpful in certain situations. Like… any time you go to Hemorrhage and want to snipe.
  • And my favorite, a forgiven message. Everytime you betray someone and that whom you betrayed gets the option to boot forgives you, the game notifies you. Might spread some well needed civility and respect.

I think I just realized one of the major problems, and a solution to that problem. The reason there is so much betrayal is because of two things. Vehicles manned by one player, and a lack of useful weapons! The banshee and revenant are a problem. One person takes one of these vehicles and can get 20 to 30 kills. This leaves others on the ground with nothing but their DMR. If you replace the banshee with a falcon and revenants for warthogs or ghosts, it takes mulitple people to get kills. These get people more productive and it makes for a far better experience. Here’s the math:
Banshee = 1 player w/ 20 kills + an unproductive -Yoink- crouching in the corner waiting for the next one.
Falcon = 2 - 3 players w/ 20 kills + fun for 3 doing a single task using teamwork.
Revenant = 1 guy going around spamming the trigger w/ 10 kills
Warthog = 2 guys rallying the map avoiding shots and using teamwork to rack up 10 kills + fun for 2 cooperating on a single task.
Ghost = 1 guy cruisin’ around w/ 5 kills maybe.

My BTB map has received some good reviews thus far. I use falcons, warthogs, ghosts, and mongooses with a mix of a reasonable amount of power weapons sprinkled in strategic areas. My map is really no better than most Halo 3 maps. It’s all about what’s there for the player. Stop using revenants and I can almost guarantee a better time. I simply hate the revenant.

I may add more to this at a later time

Let’s hear it community! Popular suggestions will be linked to the OP. Let’s make this dull playlist shine!

> - Auto boot. If you betray, you are booted. Not ideal for all the chaos, but it would stop the weapon betrayals.
> - Betrayer can’t pick up weapons dropped by the betrayee(word?). May help a bit, but you might still get betrayed out of frustration.
> - Remove friendly fire. Not a popular idea, but it would be helpful in certain situations. Like… any time you go to Hemorrhage and want to snipe.
> - And my favorite, a forgiven message. Everytime you betray someone and that whom you betrayed gets the option to boot forgives you, the game notifies you. Might spread some well needed civility and respect.

Agreed with the Quotation.

also to be honest when i see a Guy betraying me for a Sniper i think they will Do a Good job using a Sniper. Right after i die and Getting T-BAG by Him he waste the ammo and never got a single Kill with it, i mean if you Really want the Sniper play Team Sniper’s. TL;DR Reach should really have a Auto-Boot lol.

I agree with some points, OP.

Things I agree with include,

forgiveness message. I think that sending this would give a positive atmosphere to the game.

Renegade - Banshee & revenant together are too good of a combination for spawn trapping (due to rev-sniping), especially when an inveitable second banshee or revenant joints the party.

BTB spawns - some spawns are terrible, like you have stated.

In my opinion, I think one of the biggest issues is lack of variety. The game gets stagnant after you spend over a minute running across a map that is way to big, just to get sniped, and then have to run all the way back. Vehicles are great, but there isn’t a balance. There needs to be more power weapons available to take down banshee’s and the other vehicles so you don’t have some noob spawn killing everyone.

Utopie is the map with the major problems on Big Team Battle especially with Objective games. If your team has a poor start and looses the Banshee, Laser and Sniper, that is the game over. You just spend the next 10 minutes being spawn killed.

Never really had any problems with the Sniper on Hemorrhage, people always jet pack to it from the start so I just center the game around using the DMR. Normally doesn’t take long for the Wrath’s and Revenant’s to be destroyed. Have to say I prefer it on Elite Slayer though, the Focus Rifle isn’t as effective and because everyone has plasma pistols vehicles tend to be dealt with quickly.

Hemorrhage and 1 Flag don’t however go together. It is virtually impossible to end the game with a result other than a draw.

BTB biggest problems are the maps and the crappy vehicle combat. Make BTB all DLC required, we would get maps like headlong, highlands, breakpoint, tempest and timberland… BAM!

> BTB biggest problems are the maps and the crappy vehicle combat. Make BTB all DLC required, we would get maps like headlong, highlands, breakpoint, tempest and timberland… BAM!

Slaps this user repeteadly

What are you talking about? you can’t put Big Team Battle all DLC required, that doesn’t make sense, there’s a Premium Slayer and Premium Battle for a reason. And the only maps you can play on are Highlands, Breakpoint, and Tempest. Headlong and Timberland are going to be on Anniversary.

This sounds more like a troll.

Personally I think auto boot is a terrible idea, at least give the person who got betrayed the option. A lot of Reach’s other automated systems have had their flaws as well, such as the one that bans you from earning credits if one of your guests doesn’t get any kills for several games (happened to me).

The other thing to obviously keep in mind is that accidents do genuinely happen, can you imagine how annoying it would be to get booted automatically from accidently betraying someone you are in a party with? Or have in the room playing splitscreen?

Auto boot is not the solution. Unfortunately, there isn’t a great way to go about intentional betrays.

[deleted]

> In my opinion, I think one of the biggest issues is lack of variety. The game gets stagnant after you spend over a minute running across a map that is way to big, just to get sniped, and then have to run all the way back. Vehicles are great, but there isn’t a balance. There needs to be more power weapons available to take down banshee’s and the other vehicles so you don’t have some noob spawn killing everyone.

This is quite an issue on both Hemorrhage and Spire. Hemorrhage is a hell of a walk after all vehicles are used. Besides, where are you going? There are only about four places to go, and the enemy base isn’t one. The rest of the map is just open space that is guaranteed to get you killed. Then you have the empty area of Spire. There is a set of rockets, a banshee, and I think a Needle Rifle. That’s quite a boring trek when nothing is there anymore. It’s just a place to get camped when the enemy has the banshee or there is a Sniper on the Spire. That space should be almost completely blocked off. Actually, both Spire and Boneyard need complete BTB overhauls. Didn’t Overkill make something like this?

> Utopie is the map with the major problems on Big Team Battle especially with Objective games. If your team has a poor start and looses the Banshee, Laser and Sniper, that is the game over. You just spend the next 10 minutes being spawn killed.
>
> Never really had any problems with the Sniper on Hemorrhage, people always jet pack to it from the start so I just center the game around using the DMR. Normally doesn’t take long for the Wrath’s and Revenant’s to be destroyed. Have to say I prefer it on Elite Slayer though, the Focus Rifle isn’t as effective and because everyone has plasma pistols vehicles tend to be dealt with quickly.
>
> Hemorrhage and 1 Flag don’t however go together. It is virtually impossible to end the game with a result other than a draw.

I entirely agree. 1 Flag on Boneyard is also very frustrating. But at least it’s possible in comparison to Hemorrhage.

> > BTB biggest problems are the maps and the crappy vehicle combat. Make BTB all DLC required, we would get maps like headlong, highlands, breakpoint, tempest and timberland… BAM!
>
> Slaps this user repeteadly
>
> What are you talking about? you can’t put Big Team Battle all DLC required, that doesn’t make sense, there’s a Premium Slayer and Premium Battle for a reason. And the only maps you can play on are Highlands, Breakpoint, and Tempest. Headlong and Timberland are going to be on Anniversary.
>
> This sounds more like a troll.

Actually, while I think the only BTB shouldn’t be so restricted, I think there should be a separate 8v8 playlist that features all disk and DLC maps. Some of the big maps are just wasted and Premium is dull without the disk maps and a full 16 player lobby. I want all or none. Put my money to use.

Maybe Big Team Battle (All Disk and DLC) and Big Team Social (Disk, DLC Optional). I want to play on all of my maps.

> Personally I think auto boot is a terrible idea, at least give the person who got betrayed the option. A lot of Reach’s other automated systems have had their flaws as well, such as the one that bans you from earning credits if one of your guests doesn’t get any kills for several games (happened to me).
>
> The other thing to obviously keep in mind is that accidents do genuinely happen, can you imagine how annoying it would be to get booted automatically from accidently betraying someone you are in a party with? Or have in the room playing splitscreen?

Good points. Very good points. I’ll update the OP.

Regarding not spawning in the base on Hemorrhage:

> Even if no opposition is in or near it. Even if you do spawn in the base, there isn’t much you can do.

This could be fixed by either shortening the spawn zone around the base, or breaking up the spawn zone into multiple ones surrounding the base. That way, if someone is in the flats, you won’t spawn outside, but the inside of the base is uninfluenced by an enemy’s presence.

(More later)

I agree with you on all aspects you’ve mentioned, OP.

Betrayals and spawning are the two biggest F-ups in my book. For example, and you mentioned Hemorrhage, Spawning in the middle of the field because ‘enemies aren’t near you’ isn’t always helpful. In this particular map especially, since the sniper could very well be looking directly at your spawn. Happens often in most gametypes. Hemorrhage is a map that’s just full of fail though, I could go on with a huge list of things that I, my friends, and so many other players would agree with.

But I’ll continue in saying betrayals are the worst part of the game. BTB has always had this problem. (Infection has it bad too) I’ve mentioned it before and I’ll mention it again, turn off friendly fire. Bungie saw how big of a problem it became in Firefight. And fixed it. I think it’s worse in Matchmaking. I don’t like comparing Halo to other shooters because I personally don’t think any others are on the same level, however, I do enjoy the fact that most others do not have friendly fire in 90% of their playlists. And when they do, (using CoD as an example) it’s specifically in the Hardcore playlists. That’s because it can certainly be fun to play with friendly fire active, but not all the time. Especially when people are continuously doing it every, if not every other match.

Huge problem, needs fixing. I love you 343, do you love me?

one thing that really annoyed me was the lack of love bungie gave big team, they didnt make any good maps and the ones they had they completly left out parts of them (spire, boneyard, etc.). dont forget the forged maps they put in, both bland and, as always, GREY!!

I just updated the OP with what I think is a very important thought. I’ll post it following this colon:

I think I just realized one of the major problems, and a solution to that problem. The reason there is so much betrayal is because of two things. Vehicles manned by one player, and a lack of useful weapons! The banshee and revenant are a problem. One person takes one of these vehicles and can get 20 to 30 kills. This leaves others on the ground with nothing but their DMR. If you replace the banshee with a falcon and revenants for warthogs or ghosts, it takes mulitple people to get kills. These get people more productive and it makes for a far better experience. Here’s the math:
Banshee = 1 player w/ 20 kills + an unproductive Yoink! crouching in the corner waiting for the next one.
Falcon = 2 - 3 players w/ 20 kills + fun for 3 doing a single task using teamwork.
Revenant = 1 guy going around spamming the trigger w/ 10 kills
Warthog = 2 guys rallying the map avoiding shots and using teamwork to rack up 10 kills + fun for 2 cooperating on a single task.
Ghost = 1 guy cruisin’ around w/ 5 kills maybe.

My BTB map has received some good reviews thus far. I use falcons, warthogs, ghosts, and mongooses with a mix of a reasonable amount of power weapons sprinkled in strategic areas. My map is really no better than most Halo 3 maps. It’s all about what’s there for the player. Stop using revenants and I can almost guarantee a better time. I simply hate the revenant.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ That says it all

Here’s some things that I have to say regarding your opinions.

-I think that there should be separate playlists for BTB Slayer and BTB Objective. I like objective gametypes, so this would filter out the people who treat assault as slayer (everybody runs out of the base, bomb is still there).

-I don’t like most of the maps. Hemorrhage should be replaced by Xx Overkill VR’s Hemotoma, which is a Coagulation remake. And I’d like to see more real maps, I’m tired of seeing Forge World environments

-Betrayals shouldn’t happen. Seriously. Friendly fire should be removed, and only kept in MLG playlists. It’s the only fix for betrayals.

> http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ That says it all

Nooooooooooooooo, that only shows how useless your post is. Communicate your opinion in a mature and unoffensive manor and maybe you can be taken seriously. I don’t even know what you’re saying no to, thanks to the lack of information you left.

I think it’s okay, but they should add more maps and remove Utopie. Spire, Boneyard, and other big maps, like Highlands (if they have the DLC), should appear more.

to improve big team do the following

-remove the BANSHEE till its NERFED (or, just add a thousand spartan lasers to the maps lol)

-ADD FIVE TIMES as much cover as there is to HEMORRHAGE, or REMOVE THE MAP ALL TOGETHER. every time i load that map i either quit, or have an incredibly un-fun time. i have YET to have fun playing hemorrhage on reach. its always boring.