I know some people are upset that forge wont be at launch but lets think about it some, halo 5’s forge was incredible so 343 delaying forge means that they have more time to make it great or even greater than halo 5’s. I dunno i just wanted to post this because im hearing alot of people complain of about forge and co op not being at launch.
It sucks, and will hurt short term however if the game can carry itself for 6 months off core matchmaking it will have issues with Forge regardless IMO.
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> It sucks, and will hurt short term however if the game can carry itself for 6 months off core matchmaking it will have issues with Forge regardless IMO.
yeah i agree, i would rather have a less buggy delayed forge than a more buggy forge at launch
For me, and this could be ignorant of me, the fact it’s being developed by another company that isn’t focusing on another major aspect of Infinite makes it worse. They have just a single job and weren’t able to deliver on time let alone get anything for us to use. At the very least I would expect to see more about Forge and the potential features when you announce it’s going to be delayed so that we get a better understanding of why. More than anything, it’s the lack of details that angers myself as well as many people I’ve talked to about it.
I’m super excited for Forge and can definitely see it as being an insane editor, capable of doing so many cool things, but we aren’t getting it for at least 6 months after launch. I’d think that they are far enough to at least give us a basic editor even if it’s not even to the Halo 5 Forge mode. I’m making the assumption that they aren’t just going to hard program everything into the same thing in a way that makes even the base forge mode reliant on every other piece. That doesn’t make sense for a game that is meant to be the Halo game for the next decade. Because of that it would make sense that they could launch a basic editor even if it doesn’t have all of these nice bells and whistles.
Please let me know if these assumptions are faulty.
I think the big thing for me isn’t necessarily that its delayed. I don’t mind a slight delay if it means getting a feature that is more polished and functional. Halo 5’s forge was astoundingly good and really makes me excited for Infinite’s forge. The thing that kills me is that its delayed by 2 seasons which is roughly 6 months give or take a bit. That’s a LONG delay. A month you can kind of brush off. 6 is pretty long and although Infinite might have a longer lifespan due to being a live-service player interest goes up and down depending on update quality and other variables. Not having forge at or near launch is really frustrating to me.
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> For me, and this could be ignorant of me, the fact it’s being developed by another company that isn’t focusing on another major aspect of Infinite makes it worse. They have just a single job and weren’t able to deliver on time let alone get anything for us to use. At the very least I would expect to see more about Forge and the potential features when you announce it’s going to be delayed so that we get a better understanding of why. More than anything, it’s the lack of details that angers myself as well as many people I’ve talked to about it.
>
> I’m super excited for Forge and can definitely see it as being an insane editor, capable of doing so many cool things, but we aren’t getting it for at least 6 months after launch. I’d think that they are far enough to at least give us a basic editor even if it’s not even to the Halo 5 Forge mode. I’m making the assumption that they aren’t just going to hard program everything into the same thing in a way that makes even the base forge mode reliant on every other piece. That doesn’t make sense for a game that is meant to be the Halo game for the next decade. Because of that it would make sense that they could launch a basic editor even if it doesn’t have all of these nice bells and whistles.
>
> Please let me know if these assumptions are faulty.
I definitely agree that there should be more news and spoken word about the Forge editor’s progress and status, and I wholeheartedly agree with the frustration surrounding the shroud around the campaign’s details. But to suggest that Forge is some simple project that the team didn’t get out the door on time? That’s my only gripe with your statement.
Forge could easily be one of the most complex moving parts of Halo Infinite. I don’t know that for certain, as I don’t work there, but creating an editor more powerful and versatile than Halo 5’s, while also including that previous editor’s features? I cannot fathom that being an easy task, especially given the current circumstances.
They said six months is an optimistic estimate rather than a hard deadline to release Forge, so nothing is set in stone. Also, if it follows the same update path as Halo 5’s version, which was never fully completed and polished, it’s an open question how long it will take before they release something finished and full-featured.
Also, I hope Forge isn’t a seasonal lure where they slowly trickle out features that should have been implemented from the start.
Will they do as with Halo 5 and will we have a separate Forge mode where we can work directly from the PC?
> 2533274842428280;8:
> Will they do as with Halo 5 and will we have a separate Forge mode where we can work directly from the PC?
that would be very cool and i hope to see that return
> 2533274898372795;4:
> For me, and this could be ignorant of me, the fact it’s being developed by another company that isn’t focusing on another major aspect of Infinite makes it worse. They have just a single job and weren’t able to deliver on time let alone get anything for us to use. At the very least I would expect to see more about Forge and the potential features when you announce it’s going to be delayed so that we get a better understanding of why. More than anything, it’s the lack of details that angers myself as well as many people I’ve talked to about it.
>
> I’m super excited for Forge and can definitely see it as being an insane editor, capable of doing so many cool things, but we aren’t getting it for at least 6 months after launch. I’d think that they are far enough to at least give us a basic editor even if it’s not even to the Halo 5 Forge mode. I’m making the assumption that they aren’t just going to hard program everything into the same thing in a way that makes even the base forge mode reliant on every other piece. That doesn’t make sense for a game that is meant to be the Halo game for the next decade. Because of that it would make sense that they could launch a basic editor even if it doesn’t have all of these nice bells and whistles.
>
> Please let me know if these assumptions are faulty.
So there’s two different issues here. Firstly, the fact its not ready isn’t necessarily the third parties fault. Creating a stable forge experience requires the devs working around the lighting and graphics engine. Forge is incredibly complex, how it loads textures, bakes lighting into a map, all of these things are complex and likely quite unstable when any changes are made to the engine. There’ll be shifting performance metrics, one day they might have the mode working up to a certain budget, and the next if 343 have tweaked the lignting engine suddenly what worked the day before might crash as soon as it loads, or certain blocks could be loading without textures. And this is probably even harder because they’re not only developing for one system, but 4 different console SKU’s and PC, and have to make sure it performs properly on all of them. We know how unstable the multiplayer is with certain graphics cards at the moment, if they’re struggling to get the desired performance in normal MP then they’ll without a doubt be struggling even more so with forge.
Which ties into the second point, they probably don’t have a fully functioning basic version of the editor, I imagine the issues and delays are more to do with lighting, stability and performance rather than any one specific new feature. Once the game is locked it’ll be easier to then fine tune the forge performance, finalise object limits, currency limits and bug fix any remaining issues. Obviously this is just a theory, we can’t know for sure what’s going on, but it’s my take on the situation.
> 2535472923259036;6:
> > 2533274898372795;4:
> > For me, and this could be ignorant of me, the fact it’s being developed by another company that isn’t focusing on another major aspect of Infinite makes it worse. They have just a single job and weren’t able to deliver on time let alone get anything for us to use. At the very least I would expect to see more about Forge and the potential features when you announce it’s going to be delayed so that we get a better understanding of why. More than anything, it’s the lack of details that angers myself as well as many people I’ve talked to about it.
> >
> > I’m super excited for Forge and can definitely see it as being an insane editor, capable of doing so many cool things, but we aren’t getting it for at least 6 months after launch. I’d think that they are far enough to at least give us a basic editor even if it’s not even to the Halo 5 Forge mode. I’m making the assumption that they aren’t just going to hard program everything into the same thing in a way that makes even the base forge mode reliant on every other piece. That doesn’t make sense for a game that is meant to be the Halo game for the next decade. Because of that it would make sense that they could launch a basic editor even if it doesn’t have all of these nice bells and whistles.
> >
> > Please let me know if these assumptions are faulty.
>
> I definitely agree that there should be more news and spoken word about the Forge editor’s progress and status, and I wholeheartedly agree with the frustration surrounding the shroud around the campaign’s details. But to suggest that Forge is some simple project that the team didn’t get out the door on time? That’s my only gripe with your statement.
>
> Forge could easily be one of the most complex moving parts of Halo Infinite. I don’t know that for certain, as I don’t work there, but creating an editor more powerful and versatile than Halo 5’s, while also including that previous editor’s features? I cannot fathom that being an easy task, especially given the current circumstances.
That’s a fair point. I should have been more careful in how I proposed my statement. I understand that it’s insanely complex in comparison to something like an Arena gamemode and map. Specifically, I think that getting to a Halo 5 level forge is something that could very reasonably get done in the time they’ve been developing Halo Infinite. Yes I realize you couldn’t specifically start Forge production right when Infinite production started but it wouldn’t take very long to get to that point. Story changes or lore changes don’t impact Forge nor do gameplay changes. The choices of adding a shotgun from H2 or the new Bulldog doesn’t impact the Forge production at all. Heck, I’d argue that even changes to the basic game changes would impact the production of Forge. Forge is a template of tools (and other stuff) that enables the user to create new maps. If the map file-type was set down in stone then realistically getting to a Halo 5 level of Forge in 4-6 years is definitely achievable even with a different developer (not 343i). I think they should release a basic form of the Infinite’s Forge to use. It’s not as if they couldn’t have done that and then when new features are completed they add them to the Forge experience. We saw this happening to a degree with Halo 5. Does that make more sense why I’m not a fan of their current approach to Forge? I’m not asking for a complete Forge build at launch, simply a basic editor that we’ve seen in numerous Halo games.
> 2533274855648543;10:
> Creating a stable forge experience requires the devs working around the lighting and graphics engine. Forge is incredibly complex, how it loads textures, bakes lighting into a map, all of these things are complex and likely quite unstable when any changes are made to the engine.
To clarify, are you saying they are making engine-level changes? I was under the impression that the engine was developed years ago and then they went to develop Infinite.
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> > 2533274855648543;10:
> > Creating a stable forge experience requires the devs working around the lighting and graphics engine. Forge is incredibly complex, how it loads textures, bakes lighting into a map, all of these things are complex and likely quite unstable when any changes are made to the engine.
>
> To clarify, are you saying they are making engine-level changes? I was under the impression that the engine was developed years ago and then they went to develop Infinite.
They’re constantly making engine level changes yes. While a bulk of the engine was built at the beginning of development, it definitely wouldn’t have been finished. Many of the graphical issues we saw in the demo last year were likely because of issues with the engine, and I don’t doubt that a lot of work over the last year has gone into fixing those issues. And any small change, let’s say to the lighting engine, will have a huge impact on the way forge operates. The development cycle isn’t a straightforward as first build the engine, then build the game. Certain elements of the engine have to be created upfront, but optimisations and enhancements will continue up until the game is locked for release, and then continuing in patches post release.
In theory, they could probably go in and create an editor that would function the way Halo 3’s original forge did, where you can only alter spawns and weapon placements. But creating that mode would add a significant delay to the actual forge mode that’s being created, it would be a big undertaking to strip out the extra features and unstable code, then fully QA test that, and I assume they just decided the tradeoff wasn’t worth it.