Okay. Let’s just say for the sake of this discussion that the Prometheans are definitely returning in Halo: Infinite. I’ve provided suggestions on this topic a few times, but I’d love to hear your more in-depth ideas.
How would you improve the Prometheans?
Things to consider:
- Movement - Animations - Appearance - Strengths and Weaknesses - Weapons - Defences - Personality/Character - What makes them fun to fight? - Ecosystem – How are they affected by the units and environment around them? - What makes them unique? - What previous elements (that they had in Halo 4 and 5) would you build from? - What would you change entirely? - Is there anything else you can think of?Please provide your ideas and reply to someone else’s comment.
I’d rather hear from you guys than go too deeply into my own suggestions, but I’ll quote myself here so the first commenter can reply.
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> - Redesign their appearance to resemble the Sentinels of Halos CE, 2, 3, and Halo Wars 1 rather than those of Halo 4, Halo Wars 2 and Halo 2 Anniversary. Model them after the classic Forerunner design. - Create more variety. There needs to be more variation within the four Promethean types (Crawlers, Soldiers, Knights and Watchers). Each Crawler type, for example, could be a different colour (bronze, silver or dark grey metal, etc. with orange, green or purple highlights) with varying AI that support each other. As a group they could be very deadly, but as soon as you dispatch one or two types of Crawlers their system falls apart because they are relying on each of their own unique abilities to support the group. Each variation should be easily identifiable based on colouring and shape, so you know how to approach/react appropriately. Currently, I can’t tell one Crawler apart from another. They all look the same to me in the heat of the battle. - This level of variation of the Crawlers in my example should apply to each Promethean type, but with the characteristics based on the type. The Crawler suggestion I described works because they attack in groups. Do something different for the Soldiers or Knights.
If you think the Prometheans are perfect as they are, feel free to explain what you love most about them and wish to see again in Infinite, and please reply to someone else’s ideas.
I definitely want them to get a visual redesign like you said. With the new art style I think there’s a chance but I’m not keeping my hopes up as it seems the Forerunner structures look the same, at least the spires in the 2018 trailer do.
Also agree with your variation point. Would be nice if they used different colours to distinguish between types.
As for my own ideas I have a couple. First I want Crawlers to go back to their H4 gameplay style. I thought it was cool that they climbed on walls and tried to flank. In H5 they just run at you in a mob on the ground, kinda boring.
Second, I want more vehicles. The air vehicle is cool (I’m forgetting the name), but it was tied to gameplay segments that felt very on rails. I’d like to see more freedom in their use and also add some ground vehicles for them.
Third, I’d like Warden Eternal back but in a different way. In H5 he was a massive boss type character. I say shrink him down and give him the role of the Hunter. He’d be an enemy that shows up once in a while but not considered a boss, just a more regular heavy hitting troop.
One of the best things we can do to rehabilitate Prometheans would be to remove hitmarkers. No really.
One of the reasons Prometheans simply are not as fun to fight as the Covenant is that they tend to have really weak visual feedback when getting hit. In Halo 4 their shield flares are pitiful and the there is basically no indication of how much damage is being done once their shields are down, same with the other units. Halo 5 Knights only really animate once you break one of their weakspots and otherwise you can get all the hitmarkers you want but it isn’t always clear your shots are landing where they need to. You could improve the hitmarkers, but ultimately that just leaves you staring at hitmarkers rather than any particular enemy.
Compare this to the Covenant in CE where shield flares are bright and the blood of unshielded enemies are cartoonishly bright. As ridiculous as it can look at times, there is almost always a clear indication of when you shots landed. You almost never feel like your shots are being wasted because every shot helps.
TL;DR Prometheans need bright shield flares(also shields should return) and and highly visible sparks(or something along those lines) to indicate you are doing damage without the need for hitmarkers.
Some other changes:
*Not a fan of “weak spots” being the only effective way to take out Knights. Weak Spots are fine as long they can still be killed by shooting center mass.
*All hardlight weapons should disintegrate biological enemies, including Light Rifle, Suppressor, etc. It is a great way to make the Prometheans and their weapons feel powerful without actually being unbalanced.
*No more tracking weapons. Having the two most common weapons in the Forerunner arsenal being lock on weapons was incredibly aggravating. Boltshot should revert to H4, and Suppressor needs a redsign.
*Soldiers should take a backseat role to bring Knights back to the forefront. Soldiers just are not as interesting as the Knights.
*Like CE Sentinels, Prometheans should take bonus damage from Covenant plasma weapons to highlight their mechanical nature.
*Tone down Teleporting. Teleporting should be slow and predicatble ala Reaper’s teleport from Overwatch. Teleporting should not allow Knights to recharge shields.
*Watchers need some serious changes. I’m honestly a bit at a loss of what to do with them. On the one hand I like the idea of a support unit on paper, in practice I agree with the criticisms that there is no reason no to target them first in every encounter.
*More ammo for the player. One reason Prometheans feel so tanky is that 343 is incredibly stingy when it comes to player ammo. Player ammo capacity is a joke and should return to CE levels ~10 “magazines” worth for basic weapons and ~5-6 reloads for power weapons.
This is probably going to sound odd, but the Promethian death animations can really give me a visual overload. I think It’d be cooler of the dropped dead like the other enemies, but the dead Promethians would spray data (the orange twinkly stuff you see when the die in 4/5) like how the dead covenant ooze blood. I think it’d look cooler, be easier on the eyes, and be more visually satisfying.
> Knights.zip
> Crawlers.zip
> Soldiers.zip
> Watchers.zip
Ctrl+A, Delete
Problem solved. Can’t fix something that is so broken on nearly every level of good enemy design.
> 2533274824050480;5:
> > Knights.zip
> > Crawlers.zip
> >Soldiers.zip
> >Watchers.zip
>
> Ctrl+A, Delete
>
> Problem solved. Can’t fix something that is so broken on nearly every level of good enemy design.
This is neither constructive or accurate. You can fix whats broken unless its beyond repair and realistically, Prometheans are not. For me, one of the biggest issues for knights, soldiers etc, is how they traverse the environment. Teleportation, I frames etc are just not fun to play against, especially when its spammed (H4 was a big culprit). Removing that and making traversal a physical animation that can be interrupted is a big step in the right direction. I mean, knights were experimented to be put into a ball form instead of teleporting. Is that super great? Eh, no, but I find it way better the teleportation
Oh boi where to start?
I like the premise of the Knights, being humans converted into mechanical weapons that still retain but ignore or don’t access memories. Kinda creepy, sort of.
So have both versions of knights. Call one the Requiem form (FormR) and the other the Warfare form (FormW) since the former was made to combat flood and the latter came about after encountering humans again. FormR should get a shield back and act like they’re dealing with Flood to some degree, they keep a bit more distance, shoot more aggressively and have the warp ability they did in H4 but not use it as frequently. FormW should be more aggressive physically. Almost like an enraged hunter. Charging enemies and being the focal point in a battle allowing other units to surround targets. The weakpoints should remain and the armour more beefy than FormR. In fact the weakpoints should boosters it can use to manoeuvre faster and hover until you break one off. Higher ranks should make use of the weird little arms and have sidearm weapons, imagine the FormW having two hard light blades and the little arms both hold boltshots. Rushing at you as a mini boss. These units shouldn’t appear as often but when they do oh boy be ready.
Crawlers. Give them the ability to climb walls again. Make them more that annoying cannon fodder. They’ll still be annoying but now they can flank you better and 343 doesn’t have to rely on sheer numbers to make them a threat. Standard unit does what H5 crawlers do. Crawlers prime (I think that’s what they’re called) take a bit more damage but when at least one is present “tactics” begin to emerge. They don’t just charge you they circle you, get you from all directions, crawlers furthest away will find new openings. When a soldier or knight is present a few will stay near and support while the rest hunt the player. Sniper crawlers should return and should feature more colours to camouflage better. A much larger crawler should appear too that soldiers (and maybe grunts) can actually ride. Maybe players too for lolz
Watchers. Split it’s abilities into new units, healer defender and Aggressor. Healers can heal and spawn crawlers like in H4, just not very common unit. Defenders make hard light shields and throw grenades back where aggressors increase fire rates and well… aggression.
Soldiers. Less bullet spongy and remove their ability to teleport. Make it so you can tear them apart. Shoot the arms and shoulders enough and they break off. Same for legs. Make it so they can repair themselves by grabbing parts from dead ones.
I don’t think prometheans should have ranks but units that sacrifice one thing like mobility for more armour and heavier weapons but actually visually add armour not just increase health and change colour a bit.
Or like with crawler primes. It’s not a better ranked crawler it’s better equipped but moves slower and can’t climb walls whereas sniper and standard crawlers can
> 2533274824050480;5:
> > Knights.zip
> > Crawlers.zip
> >Soldiers.zip
> >Watchers.zip
>
> Ctrl+A, Delete
>
> Problem solved. Can’t fix something that is so broken on nearly every level of good enemy design.
Very much this… But that would mean a reset of the main Canon and I don’t think Halo should become a mess like that.
The easiest and most straightforward solution to the Prometheans is actually making them fun to fight. Every one of them, except for the Knights are just Skirmisher or Buggers in a different shape. All of their strategies are similar and paired with very low visual hit markers they just become too boring to fight. Make them stand out more, just like Covie species do from each other.
Visual design is best. Mainly for the soldiers. They don’t compare to the design of a Sentinels or their past look in the lore. They should look less broken and robotic and more human design, since, they are frankly human before after all.
I think the only Forerunner reworks are the Crawlers and Watchers with little of the Soldiers. So far, the Crawlers and Watchers are nothing but annoying grunts.
Crawlers are just evasive grunts that can move fast, climb, shoot, courage, smack. Only “satisfying” death is the head shot. They need to have more functions besides just being a pain in the----- such maybe turning them away as front line grunt cannon fodder to maybe like a hunting dog design. When you hear their call, they hunt you down. They are move faster, kill faster, bigger and scarier. ----------------------------- The cons of this new design is they only travel in trios now and they also die just as fast as they kill. The whole mechanic is depending on who’s the predator and who is the prey. They hunt down your movement and close in on you unless you can hunt them down first. This kinda makes them less frequent and more frequent as hunters. They appear in groups of three and can appear in specific dark and foggy missions of the campaign. Soldiers fit as grunts now.
Watchers prob fine as a support enemy. I think they just need to be bigger, have a redesigned appearance. And not run away when being shot.
Knights are the only one I think are fine. They have two lights that destroying one exposes a back spot. They animate their face to be an easy kill if you head shot it just in time. If not, they still have their usual Halo 4 x10 bullet sponge power. But maybe make the bullet sponge relative to what hits them.
In order to make the Prometheans a compelling enemy to fight against, they have to be entirely redesigned. This is what needs to happen:
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The Covenant had a very clear design language which differentiated the various species within the Covenant, and their respective ranks. When I glance at a group of Covenant, I can quickly discern what species and ranks I’m about to engage and therefore assign priority to the more dangerous enemies. You can’t do this as easily with the Prometheans…if at all. They all appear just a slightly different metallic color with few unique characteristics if you stare at them for long enough.
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Weapon silhouettes are important for determining priority of enemy. If I see enemies with a fuel rod gun, a sniper rifle and a plasma rifle respectively, I quickly assign priority about which enemies to take out first. Covenant weapons ALSO had very clear design language which allowed you to quickly discern what weapons they are about to engage you with. Unfortunately, all Promethean weapons just look like a slightly different shape of assault rifle and they’re all the same metallic color. Promethean units and weapons are both just these angular, silver/metallic things. It’s hard to tell what weapon they are holding because it blends in to their silhouette and is the same color. Not to mention basically all of their weapons just shoot the same orange gunk.
In short, you need to clearly differentiate the various Promethean classes and ranks. You also need to have distinctive weapons which are different from “angular, metallic thing that shoots orange stuff”.
Finally, shooting against all metal enemies simply isn’t as satisfying as shooting organic enemies. Maybe it’s a bit morbid, but shooting metal bullets at what are effectively metal cans just doesn’t have the visceral satisfaction of sniping an Elite or blowing up a Flood form with a shotgun.
Oh, and one more thing lol. The Prometheans have basically zero personality. Elites, Grunts, Jackals, etc. all had distinctive styles, speech patterns, personalities, fighting styles. Prometheans are this homogenous mass of identical metallic enemies that shoot orange stuff. Maybe that’s an immutable characteristic of the Prometheans because I believe they’re all a hive mind? (not positive on the expanded lore)
Oh, and even another thing. I keep coming up with things the more I think about it. Why is the lore surrounding the Prometheans so obtuse? The Covenant were compelling yet had a fairly simple story. A collection of various alien races all tied together in a religious pact. Okay, got it.
After beating both Halo 4 and 5’s campaign…I barely even understand what the Prometheans are. It’s as if all their conversations and cut scenes are so esoteric with unnecessarily grandiose dialogue that it’s hard to even understand what is going on. I don’t want to have to spend an hour on wikipedia trying to decipher why exactly I need to shoot this one especially bad orange and metallic character.
> 2533274840624875;6:
> > 2533274824050480;5:
> > > Knights.zip
> > > Crawlers.zip
> > >Soldiers.zip
> > >Watchers.zip
> >
> > Ctrl+A, Delete
> >
> > Problem solved. Can’t fix something that is so broken on nearly every level of good enemy design.
>
> This is neither constructive or accurate. You can fix whats broken unless its beyond repair and realistically, Prometheans are not. For me, one of the biggest issues for knights, soldiers etc, is how they traverse the environment. Teleportation, I frames etc are just not fun to play against, especially when its spammed (H4 was a big culprit). Removing that and making traversal a physical animation that can be interrupted is a big step in the right direction. I mean, knights were experimented to be put into a ball form instead of teleporting. Is that super great? Eh, no, but I find it way better the teleportation
What would you think about having teleportation and/or that Promethean lunge with the following changes? Only one or two ranks of Promethean Knights can do it and it has an exaggerated warm-up animation, so if timed right, the Knight can be shot out of the teleport/lunge immediately before attempting it? (I know that wasn’t particularly clear, but hopefully you know what I mean.) One of the biggest issues I see with Halo’s enemies from Reach onwards is that they often perform quite devastating or frustrating attacks with little to no warning. Whereas, every major action performed by enemies in Halos CE, 2 and 3 came with a brilliant but short animation to warn the player beforehand.
> 2535415876049274;11:
> > 2533274840624875;6:
> > > 2533274824050480;5:
> > > > Knights.zip
> > > > Crawlers.zip
> > > >Soldiers.zip
> > > >Watchers.zip
> > >
> > > Ctrl+A, Delete
> > >
> > > Problem solved. Can’t fix something that is so broken on nearly every level of good enemy design.
> >
> > This is neither constructive or accurate. You can fix whats broken unless its beyond repair and realistically, Prometheans are not. For me, one of the biggest issues for knights, soldiers etc, is how they traverse the environment. Teleportation, I frames etc are just not fun to play against, especially when its spammed (H4 was a big culprit). Removing that and making traversal a physical animation that can be interrupted is a big step in the right direction. I mean, knights were experimented to be put into a ball form instead of teleporting. Is that super great? Eh, no, but I find it way better the teleportation
>
> What would you think about having teleportation and/or that Promethean lunge with the following changes? Only one or two ranks of Promethean Knights can do it and it has an exaggerated warm-up animation, so if timed right, the Knight can be shot out of the teleport/lunge immediately before attempting it? (I know that wasn’t particularly clear, but hopefully you know what I mean.) One of the biggest issues I see with Halo’s enemies from Reach onwards is that they often perform quite devastating or frustrating attacks with little to no warning. Whereas, every major action performed by enemies in Halos CE, 2 and 3 came with a brilliant but short animation to warn the player beforehand.
nah, just remove it. I find any form if teleportation a BS traversal mechanic regardless of wind up. One main reason is once that wind up ends, its a crap shoot for where they will appear. Sure, you could add a tell, but in the middle of combat not everyone is looking for the tell. Being able to see them move the entire process and be hittable during that process is just a better system