Length Of The Campaign Correlating With Quality?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So lately I’ve been hearing a lot from people that want the Halo 5 campaign to be long, just like with Halo 2. But in my opinion, Halo 2 was too long, and was filled with filler. While well-designed, it was filler nonetheless. I’d say 4-5 levels in Halo 2 were useless, and just there to pad out the game. Why couldn’t Bungie just take out the filler, tighten up the story, and add the levels they wanted to do what would add to the story before their deadline? The few levels I know of that were filler are as follows.

Outskirts: I understand wanting to show off Earth, and this level is well-done, but it is useless. It adds no story to the game, and is just there to be there. It is very easily done to have the Pelican crash on the bridge, and use a tank then. You could just do Metropolis and in my opinion, this would give enough Earth and enough epicness, and it wouldn’t affect the story.

The Arbiter: Why? I also understand wanting to show off the Arbiter, but you could easily drop him off before they get to the door leading to the Flood and still have all the proper story. Was a whole level worth the lead up to the flood?

Note: I would say Delta Halo, but the exploration of a Halo ring is so deep-rooted in the franchise, just having one level mostly underwater would be ludicrous. But, I do think Delta Halo was too long.

Quarantine Zone: This level is one of the best in the game. No doubt about that. The problem is that it is utterly useless. Why can’t we change some things up and put the end of the previous level extended slightly right before they get to the Library? It would be tighter, and not be so tedious and long to get to one place. There is absolutely no story until the end of the level, which again, could be put right after the end of the past one.

Note: Oh Gravemind, What will I do with you? Honestly, this level does seem pretty necessary, but it really isn’t at the same time. To be honest, if it took out the marines, took out some of the padding, and put less time on The Great Schism, this level would be great. If it was ALL about the fighting between the Covenant and was half the length, this would be a winner. So, for now, I guess this is needed? High Charity is definitely needed though, because after he talks to Cortana, he needs to get to the Forerunner Dreadnought before the Flood infest the city.

Uprising: This level is my least favorite in the game, the most useless, and the reason why I think this game is too long. It has no story, barely any dialogue, and really is just there for more Arby (I love him though). Why can’t The Arbiter just be transported a little bit before he meets Rtas and extend The Great Journey slightly? What is gained from this level, more stuff about The Great Schism? Didn’t we hear about that enough?

Now what does all this Halo 2 stuff have to do with Halo 5? What I’m trying to point out is that longer doesn’t always mean better. I believe IF Halo 5 has enough story, then a Halo 2 length is great IF the levels are all there for a reason, a place in the story. Halo 4 might have been short, but at least it had every level play a part in the plot, so that’s why I think it is much better than Halo 2’s campaign. I just don’t think that Halo 5’s campaign should be overly long for the sake of being overly long. I think it should be overly long if the story demands it to be. Halo 2’s story demanded for a shorter campaign, and the story suffered because Bungie decided by the deadline that instead of focusing more on the story, they instead focused more on the number of levels. If they decided NOT to have those filler levels, then before they developed them, they could have added more story missions that were in Halo 3. Because of Halo 2’s filler, it suffered in its campaign in my opinion. It was long with filler, when it could have been long with story. Halo 5 NEEDS to be long with story in every level in order to be great, as with the basics like a good plot, characters, and level design. What do you think? Am I crazy, or am I being logical?

2

I voted for as long as it needs to be. There’s no such thing as too long imo as long as it’s answering questions and building to the story.

I don’t want it to be “absolutely different than before” because it was perfect before and I don’t want the campaign format to change.

I don’t want them to go in a different direction e.g the squad fighting idea that somebody suggested on these forums, this is about Chief’s journey for me… Not blue team.

3

Oh hey, someone else who thinks that a chunk of h2 levels feel like filler. I thought I was the only one.

Honestly I think CE did the best job balancing length with making every level feel important.

4

> 2533274840003618;2:
> I voted for as long as it needs to be. There’s no such thing as too long imo as long as it’s answering questions and building to the story.
>
> I don’t want it to be “absolutely different than before” because it was perfect before and I don’t want the campaign format to change.
>
> I don’t want them to go in a different direction e.g the squad fighting idea that somebody suggested on these forums, this is about Chief’s journey for me… Not blue team.

The fact that it is about Chief’s journey is what makes blue team so important to the story.

5

> 2533274964189700;3:
> Oh hey, someone else who thinks that a chunk of h2 levels feel like filler. I thought I was the only one.
>
> Honestly I think CE did the best job balancing length with making every level feel important.

Yes! I agree completely. CE feels long, but it really isn’t. Each level has a purpose. The only level that I can remotely think of being filler in the game is Assault On The Control Room, and even then it’s needed to get to the control room after being dropped off by Foehammer.

6

As long as it needs to be without sacrificing quality.

7

I had a thread similar to this awhile ago. I hope they find a new amount of content snd story, I want a halo game that I can’t finish in one day on my first playthrough. I would like 14 hours of campaign rather than 8, but if it starts turning to filler then cut it down. I wouldn’t mind more neat levels like the broadsword flight in halo 4, the vehicle race levels having more appearences, much more optional and deliberately challenging to explore areas with hidden stuff, and though I hate backtracking it would be neat if there were levels with a clear forward, but with benefits to going back, such as maybe if you hit a checkpoint were you get reinforcements you hear one of the pelicans crashing on the coms, so if you go to the beginning there is a crashed pelican, a bunch of marines, maybe even a chips dubbo or sgt stacker, a group of enemies to fight, and extra weapons and vehicles, maybe vehicles that completely change how the mission is played and allow for previously unnaccessable areas to be explored, adding replayability and community interactions about secrets. Cool little stuff like that is why dark souls is my favorite game(s), that game is full of cool secrets that massively benefit exploration and out of the box thinking. Heck, mgs peacewalker practically hid the real final boss behind one of these secrets, having an ending and then extra stuff afterwards that results in finding something in a target practice tutorial area that unlocks the real boss, how cool is that? Halo should try to add this kind of cool stuff, reach sort of did but it was usually too complicated and unintuitive, sometimes literally requiring exploration to completely broken areas, but still cool stuff to have. Halo needs it’s silliness and eastet eggs, and one of the things it really should take from some other games is the depth and amount of easter eggs and non obvious hidden content.

8

> 2533274894863132;7:
> I had a thread similar to this awhile ago. I hope they find a new amount of content snd story, I want a halo game that I can’t finish in one day on my first playthrough. I would like 14 hours of campaign rather than 8, but if it starts turning to filler then cut it down. I wouldn’t mind more neat levels like the broadsword flight in halo 4, the vehicle race levels having more appearences, much more optional and deliberately challenging to explore areas with hidden stuff, and though I hate backtracking it would be neat if there were levels with a clear forward, but with benefits to going back, such as maybe if you hit a checkpoint were you get reinforcements you hear one of the pelicans crashing on the coms, so if you go to the beginning there is a crashed pelican, a bunch of marines, maybe even a chips dubbo or sgt stacker, a group of enemies to fight, and extra weapons and vehicles, maybe vehicles that completely change how the mission is played and allow for previously unnaccessable areas to be explored, adding replayability and community interactions about secrets. Cool little stuff like that is why dark souls is my favorite game(s), that game is full of cool secrets that massively benefit exploration and out of the box thinking. Heck, mgs peacewalker practically hid the real final boss behind one of these secrets, having an ending and then extra stuff afterwards that results in finding something in a target practice tutorial area that unlocks the real boss, how cool is that? Halo should try to add this kind of cool stuff, reach sort of did but it was usually too complicated and unintuitive, sometimes literally requiring exploration to completely broken areas, but still cool stuff to have. Halo needs it’s silliness and eastet eggs, and one of the things it really should take from some other games is the depth and amount of easter eggs and non obvious hidden content.

I completely agree. I love exploration and easter eggs. Remember the beginning of Requiem in Halo 4? That area was a step in the right direction, and had some cool stuff to find that adds to the story. Silent Cartographer is also a great example of a level that is technically open-world, but doesn’t lose focus.

9

> 2533274936032899;8:
> > 2533274894863132;7:
> > I had a thread similar to this awhile ago. I hope they find a new amount of content snd story, I want a halo game that I can’t finish in one day on my first playthrough. I would like 14 hours of campaign rather than 8, but if it starts turning to filler then cut it down. I wouldn’t mind more neat levels like the broadsword flight in halo 4, the vehicle race levels having more appearences, much more optional and deliberately challenging to explore areas with hidden stuff, and though I hate backtracking it would be neat if there were levels with a clear forward, but with benefits to going back, such as maybe if you hit a checkpoint were you get reinforcements you hear one of the pelicans crashing on the coms, so if you go to the beginning there is a crashed pelican, a bunch of marines, maybe even a chips dubbo or sgt stacker, a group of enemies to fight, and extra weapons and vehicles, maybe vehicles that completely change how the mission is played and allow for previously unnaccessable areas to be explored, adding replayability and community interactions about secrets. Cool little stuff like that is why dark souls is my favorite game(s), that game is full of cool secrets that massively benefit exploration and out of the box thinking. Heck, mgs peacewalker practically hid the real final boss behind one of these secrets, having an ending and then extra stuff afterwards that results in finding something in a target practice tutorial area that unlocks the real boss, how cool is that? Halo should try to add this kind of cool stuff, reach sort of did but it was usually too complicated and unintuitive, sometimes literally requiring exploration to completely broken areas, but still cool stuff to have. Halo needs it’s silliness and eastet eggs, and one of the things it really should take from some other games is the depth and amount of easter eggs and non obvious hidden content.
>
>
> I completely agree. I love exploration and easter eggs. Remember the beginning of Requiem in Halo 4? That area was a step in the right direction, and had some cool stuff to find that adds to the story. Silent Cartographer is also a great example of a level that is technically open-world, but doesn’t lose focus.

Or remember that there was that button on a rock on that one reach level that spawned banshees? That changed how that level was played, or the ghosts on the end of halo 3 for that one vidmaster. More of that, campaign replayability really should be dramatically increased and this would help.

10

> 2533274936032899;1:
> So lately I’ve been hearing a lot from people that want the Halo 5 campaign to be long, just like with Halo 2. But in my opinion, Halo 2 was too long, and was filled with filler. While well-designed, it was filler nonetheless. I’d say 4-5 levels in Halo 2 were useless, and just there to pad out the game. Why couldn’t Bungie just take out the filler, tighten up the story, and add the levels they wanted to do what would add to the story before their deadline?

That’s all you really needed to say. The rest is just a rant about Halo 2 in the Halo 5: Guardians section…

> 2533274936032899;1:
> The few levels I know of that were filler are as follows.
>
> Outskirts: I understand wanting to show off Earth, and this level is well-done, but it is useless. It adds no story to the game, and is just there to be there. It is very easily done to have the Pelican crash on the bridge, and use a tank then. You could just do Metropolis and in my opinion, this would give enough Earth and enough epicness, and it wouldn’t affect the story.

That would also leave only ONE mission on Earth, and Halo 2’s ad campaign put huge emphasis on saving the world. Not very smart. With only two Earth missions in the actual game, it was already considered by many to be false advertising on Halo 2’s part. Glad to see that those very same fans, after 10 years, STILL have no idea what they wanted…

How is Chief supposed to make it to the bridge with a Scarab and a TON of Covenant Anti-Air Guns on the ground?

They won’t shoot down the Pelican, or anything… Oh wait, they did?

> 2533274936032899;1:
> The Arbiter: Why? I also understand wanting to show off the Arbiter, but you could easily drop him off before they get to the door leading to the Flood and still have all the proper story. Was a whole level worth the lead up to the flood?

When did Truth and Mercy say anything about going after the Flood? The Arbiter wasn’t sent to go after the Flood; he didn’t even know there was Flood on the station.

You completely ignored the whole point of the mission. The Arbiter was sent to kill the Heretic Leader. Obviously he was going to fly straight towards him, but there are Heretic forces in the way. He can’t just ‘swoop’ past them like they aren’t there, and neither could the Chief on Earth. You have to get rid of them.

Again, you don’t seem to understand the need for subplots in proper storytelling…

> 2533274936032899;1:
> Oh Gravemind, What will I do with you? Honestly, this level does seem pretty necessary, but it really isn’t at the same time. To be honest, if it took out the marines, took out some of the padding, and put less time on The Great Schism, this level would be great. If it was ALL about the fighting between the Covenant and was half the length, this would be a winner. So, for now, I guess this is needed? High Charity is definitely needed though, because after he talks to Cortana, he needs to get to the Forerunner Dreadnought before the Flood infest the city.

Did… Did you just say they should put less emphasis on the Great Schism?

> 2533274936032899;1:
> Uprising: This level is my least favorite in the game, the most useless, and the reason why I think this game is too long. It has no story, barely any dialogue, and really is just there for more Arby (I love him though). Why can’t The Arbiter just be transported a little bit before he meets Rtas and extend The Great Journey slightly? What is gained from this level, more stuff about The Great Schism? Didn’t we hear about that enough?

Congratulations. That level is actually 100% filler.

> 2533274936032899;1:
> What I’m trying to point out is that longer doesn’t always mean better.

And shorter isn’t always better either. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us what the protagonist had to go through to reach their intended target. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us if the Conflict was actually hard to overcome. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us just how many people died to help the protagonist accomplish their goal.

11

> 2535460843083983;10:
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > So lately I’ve been hearing a lot from people that want the Halo 5 campaign to be long, just like with Halo 2. But in my opinion, Halo 2 was too long, and was filled with filler. While well-designed, it was filler nonetheless. I’d say 4-5 levels in Halo 2 were useless, and just there to pad out the game. Why couldn’t Bungie just take out the filler, tighten up the story, and add the levels they wanted to do what would add to the story before their deadline?
>
>
> That’s all you really needed to say. The rest is just a rant about Halo 2 in the Halo 5: Guardians section…
>
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > The few levels I know of that were filler are as follows.
> >
> > Outskirts: I understand wanting to show off Earth, and this level is well-done, but it is useless. It adds no story to the game, and is just there to be there. It is very easily done to have the Pelican crash on the bridge, and use a tank then. You could just do Metropolis and in my opinion, this would give enough Earth and enough epicness, and it wouldn’t affect the story.
>
>
> That would also leave only ONE mission on Earth, and Halo 2’s ad campaign put huge emphasis on saving the world. Not very smart. With only two Earth missions in the actual game, it was already considered by many to be false advertising on Halo 2’s part. Glad to see that those very same fans, after 10 years, STILL have no idea what they wanted…
>
> How is Chief supposed to make it to the bridge with a Scarab and a TON of Covenant Anti-Air Guns on the ground?
>
> They won’t shoot down the Pelican, or anything… Oh wait, they did?
>
>
>
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > The Arbiter: Why? I also understand wanting to show off the Arbiter, but you could easily drop him off before they get to the door leading to the Flood and still have all the proper story. Was a whole level worth the lead up to the flood?
>
>
> When did Truth and Mercy say anything about going after the Flood? The Arbiter wasn’t sent to go after the Flood; he didn’t even know there was Flood on the station.
>
> You completely ignored the whole point of the mission. The Arbiter was sent to kill the Heretic Leader. Obviously he was going to fly straight towards him, but there are Heretic forces in the way. He can’t just ‘swoop’ past them like they aren’t there, and neither could the Chief on Earth. You have to get rid of them.
>
> Again, you don’t seem to understand the need for subplots in proper storytelling…
>
>
>
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > Oh Gravemind, What will I do with you? Honestly, this level does seem pretty necessary, but it really isn’t at the same time. To be honest, if it took out the marines, took out some of the padding, and put less time on The Great Schism, this level would be great. If it was ALL about the fighting between the Covenant and was half the length, this would be a winner. So, for now, I guess this is needed? High Charity is definitely needed though, because after he talks to Cortana, he needs to get to the Forerunner Dreadnought before the Flood infest the city.
>
>
> Did… Did you just say they should put less emphasis on the Great Schism?
>
>
>
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > Uprising: This level is my least favorite in the game, the most useless, and the reason why I think this game is too long. It has no story, barely any dialogue, and really is just there for more Arby (I love him though). Why can’t The Arbiter just be transported a little bit before he meets Rtas and extend The Great Journey slightly? What is gained from this level, more stuff about The Great Schism? Didn’t we hear about that enough?
>
>
> Congratulations. That level is actually 100% filler.
>
>
>
> > 2533274936032899;1:
> > What I’m trying to point out is that longer doesn’t always mean better.
>
>
> And shorter isn’t always better either. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us what the protagonist had to go through to reach their intended target. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us if the Conflict was actually hard to overcome. ‘Shorter’ doesn’t tell us just how many people died to help the protagonist accomplish their goal.

  1. I said at the end, “Now what does all this about Halo 2 have to do with Halo 5?” And then I explain myself. The levels and stuff about Halo 2 were to point out what I was trying to get at, that a good campaign doesn’t mean a long one.
  2. That was Microsoft’s fault for having the ad campaign focus on saving the world. If the game wasn’t led up to be like that, then we wouldn’t have to worry about not enough Earth. Now, maybe Outskirts is more necessary than I gave it credit for, but it still doesn’t have anything that ADDS to the game story. Why not fuse the levels into one level, trim the fat, and tighten up the action? It’s not that difficult. And also, I got into Halo after Halo 2, so I was not one of those fans.
  3. I never even said that their goal was to find the Flood. You are picking my words apart. You say the point of the mission was to find the Heretic leader, but the 2nd level was there to show that that plan was foiled. Why not merge these levels together (I see a pattern)? Why not trim the fat, make the Flood come near the middle of the level, like with 343 Guilty Spark, and put all that Heretic killing in the beginning of it. Sure, some combat situations would be sacrificed, but it would be much shorter and more balanced. My point is, what was done in 2 levels, could easily be done in one, with less filler and more story. Switch between the level titles I don’t care. As long as they are one level, then you have a much more abridged campaign.
  4. I apologize for that. I need to reword myself. I don’t think they should put less emphasis on The Great Schism, I think they should put all the emphasis only on The Great Schism. That stuff with the Marines, those multiple waves of Covenant in the beginning chamber, and those waves of Jackal Snipers are all filler, especially the Marines, which are completely useless. I think if the whole level had combat and dialogue with the Chief running through a Covenant city while running into bickering races and infighting while trying to find the Index, instead of all that useless crap, it would be much better and not nearly as tedious.
  5. Umm…I guess that’s sarcasm, implying the other ones I was talking about weren’t filler, when in my opinion, they are.
  6. Shorter means we can do that but not have it last 13 -Yoinking!- levels! You are totally missing my point. We can have all that lead-up, but they don’t need to be their own 30 minute levels of pew pew and bam bam.
    Halo 5 doesn’t have to be like this, and that’s what I’m trying to avoid. I would prefer every level to have a purpose with combat situations that feel they are necessary to get to the protagonist’s goal, and in Halo 2, I didn’t feel this sometimes. I felt sometimes they were just padding out the campaign to justify their deadline and not give us less than we want. I guess it’s really Microsoft’s fault in the first place for pressuring Bungie, but Bungie I feel went about everything the wrong way with what they had, and made some bad decisions in the process. If they actually cleaned the gunk of nothingness from some of the levels, we maybe wouldn’t have to wait 3 years to finish the fight.
    This is here because I want people to know that I think Halo 5 shouldn’t be like this, and that I don’t want it to walk in Halo 2’s un-edited and muggy footsteps.
12

> 2533274847074241;4:
> > 2533274840003618;2:
> > I voted for as long as it needs to be. There’s no such thing as too long imo as long as it’s answering questions and building to the story.
> >
> > I don’t want it to be “absolutely different than before” because it was perfect before and I don’t want the campaign format to change.
> >
> > I don’t want them to go in a different direction e.g the squad fighting idea that somebody suggested on these forums, this is about Chief’s journey for me… Not blue team.
>
>
> The fact that it is about Chief’s journey is what makes blue team so important to the story.

I completely agree. Blue team is Chief’s family. His friends and allies when Cortana is gone. Without Cortana, they are the ones to help him out. On his journey, having emotional support when Cortana isn’t there is part of why blue team are in the game in the first place.

13

HALO ESCALATION/DIDACT SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

I feel like Halo 4’s campaign should have ended with the Didact actally dying. As long as H5’s story is finished, I’m happy

14

As long as it needs to be in order to tell a coherent and satisfying narative

15

> 2533274858646258;13:
> HALO ESCALATION/DIDACT SPOILERS AHEAD!!!
>
>
>
>
> I feel like Halo 4’s campaign should have ended with the Didact actally dying. As long as H5’s story is finished, I’m happy
>
>

Here you go :slight_smile:

On topic, I don’t care about length so much as fluidity. Past Halo games have felt a little jarring, with the only ones with good transitions being ODST and Reach. This is, of course, purely my opinion.

16

I want it to be as long as possible, even if that means stretching out the story a bit or adding new things to the story that aren’t even that important.

17

> 2533274835513254;16:
> I want it to be as long as possible, even if that means stretching out the story a bit or adding new things to the story that aren’t even that important.

Ehhh that’s a dangerous path to go down. If they don’t have enough story then they certainly don’t have enough varied and interesting level design, and that’s a problem. I want it longer too, but it needs to conclude where intended. More=/=Better

18

> 2533274894863132;17:
> > 2533274835513254;16:
> > I want it to be as long as possible, even if that means stretching out the story a bit or adding new things to the story that aren’t even that important.
>
>
> Ehhh that’s a dangerous path to go down. If they don’t have enough story then they certainly don’t have enough varied and interesting level design, and that’s a problem. I want it longer too, but it needs to conclude where intended. More=/=Better

He’s a troll dude

19

> 2533274932437469;18:
> > 2533274894863132;17:
> > > 2533274835513254;16:
> > > I want it to be as long as possible, even if that means stretching out the story a bit or adding new things to the story that aren’t even that important.
> >
> >
> > Ehhh that’s a dangerous path to go down. If they don’t have enough story then they certainly don’t have enough varied and interesting level design, and that’s a problem. I want it longer too, but it needs to conclude where intended. More=/=Better
>
>
> He’s a troll dude

How can you tell though?

20

> 2533274894863132;19:
> > 2533274932437469;18:
> > > 2533274894863132;17:
> > > > 2533274835513254;16:
> > > > I want it to be as long as possible, even if that means stretching out the story a bit or adding new things to the story that aren’t even that important.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ehhh that’s a dangerous path to go down. If they don’t have enough story then they certainly don’t have enough varied and interesting level design, and that’s a problem. I want it longer too, but it needs to conclude where intended. More=/=Better
> >
> >
> > He’s a troll dude
>
>
> How can you tell though?

Something tells me he is, read the last sentence again and just think about what he is really saying