Leader Specific Issues with Forge

I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved

VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.

VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.

VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.

VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.

VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.

VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.

VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.

VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.

VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.

VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.

VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.

> 2535422802208233;1:
>

This is a good overall package for dealing with each leader. Thanks for the post.

It’s kind of a shame though that each leader is so predictable, because of where their strengths naturally end up.
Which do you find to be the most versatile leader? Other than Forge maybe.

Jerome is pretty versatile, he can open scouts or infantry and do well. All his units and powers work well together. Atriox too. Cutter is a one trick pony with the infantry. Same with Isabel and her tanks. Ship masters need to stop blind teleporting behind my base because i expect it every game and it started giving me easy wins. Yeah there is definitely a predictability factor happening with the leaders.

Colony is a very well rounded leader you put a skitter on anything and it becomes an offensive unit. Also I enjoy going banshees forcing them to go anti air and then get tech 3 and build some Locus and wraiths combined with his vehicle drop. GG…
inalso like going hunters and reavers with skitters on the reavers.

> 2535422802208233;1:
> I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
>
> VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
>
> VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
>
> VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
>
> VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
>
> VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
>
> VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
>
> VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
>
> VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
>
> VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
>
> VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
>
> VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.

Might laugh at Johnson but he can shut down Forge pretty quick if played right. I’ve taken out Forge just by dropping a bunker right in front of their mini bases or any other spot where units are produced essentially spawn camping them.

> 2533274806495508;4:
> Colony is a very well rounded leader you put a skitter on anything and it becomes an offensive unit. Also I enjoy going banshees forcing them to go anti air and then get tech 3 and build some Locus and wraiths combined with his vehicle drop. GG…
> inalso like going hunters and reavers with skitters on the reavers.

Yes, El hECHIZERO beat me last night doing something like this. i won every engagement until he popped out banshees and went strait for my base while i was killing his expo, thought a few wolverines and some missile turrets would be enough, then he did his vehicle calldown and i had a bad time. He can put a lot of units on the fields quick.

> 2641843709990435;5:
> > 2535422802208233;1:
> > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> >
> > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> >
> > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> >
> > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> >
> > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> >
> > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> >
> > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> >
> > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> >
> > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> >
> > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> >
> > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> >
> > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
>
> Might laugh at Johnson but he can shut down Forge pretty quick if played right. I’ve taken out Forge just by dropping a bunker right in front of their mini bases or any other spot where units are produced essentially spawn camping them.

I never actually said Johnson was bad, just no one uses him so i have no real input on how hes played and how to respond to him. So i just threw a joke in as a substitute. I could fully accept that hes good but havent seen it yet.

> 2535422802208233;1:
> I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
>
> VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
>
> VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
>
> VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
>
> VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
>
> VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
>
> VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
>
> VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
>
> VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
>
> VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
>
> VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
>
> VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.

Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.

With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.

Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.

Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.

> 2533274846367343;8:
> > 2535422802208233;1:
> > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> >
> > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> >
> > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> >
> > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> >
> > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> >
> > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> >
> > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> >
> > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> >
> > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> >
> > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> >
> > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> >
> > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
>
> Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
>
> With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
>
> Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
>
> Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.

honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.

> 2535422802208233;9:
> > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > >
> > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > >
> > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > >
> > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > >
> > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > >
> > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > >
> > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > >
> > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > >
> > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > >
> > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > >
> > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > >
> > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> >
> > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> >
> > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> >
> > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> >
> > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
>
> honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.

I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.

I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.

> 2533274796391115;10:
> > 2535422802208233;9:
> > > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > > >
> > > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > > >
> > > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > > >
> > > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > > >
> > > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > > >
> > > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > > >
> > > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > > >
> > > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > > >
> > > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > > >
> > > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > > >
> > > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > > >
> > > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> > >
> > > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> > >
> > > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> > >
> > > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> > >
> > > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
> >
> > honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.
>
> I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.
>
> I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.

I would be fine with this being the case for hellbringers. UNSC needs a way to counter Cutter spamming marines out of minibases that reinforce much more quickly than your own army. Losing that first skirmish against Cutter cripples you for the rest of the game, you can turtle up but it just delays the inevitable. Decimus has a good infantry/leader push too that would be better to deal with if we had good anti infantry units. Snipers are not cost effective until tier 3 where they greatly outrange and stun units.

> 2535422802208233;11:
> > 2533274796391115;10:
> > > 2535422802208233;9:
> > > > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> > > >
> > > > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> > > >
> > > > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> > > >
> > > > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
> > >
> > > honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.
> >
> > I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.
> >
> > I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.
>
> I would be fine with this being the case for hellbringers. UNSC needs a way to counter Cutter spamming marines out of minibases that reinforce much more quickly than your own army. Losing that first skirmish against Cutter cripples you for the rest of the game, you can turtle up but it just delays the inevitable. Decimus has a good infantry/leader push too that would be better to deal with if we had good anti infantry units. Snipers are not cost effective until tier 3 where they greatly outrange and stun units.

I agree with this. How would you buff them? Speed? DPS?
Personally, I think Cutter needs to be put in check. That seems to bring up a ton of backlash from some players, but so many threads are about how we need to change things to match Cutter, or so that other leaders can compete with Cutter.
Why not just change Cutter to match the game?

I agree about snipers though.
In T1, it’s wild to drop 150power on each unit.

> 2533274796391115;12:
> > 2535422802208233;11:
> > > 2533274796391115;10:
> > > > 2535422802208233;9:
> > > > > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > > > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > > > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> > > > >
> > > > > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
> > > >
> > > > honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.
> > >
> > > I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.
> > >
> > > I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.
> >
> > I would be fine with this being the case for hellbringers. UNSC needs a way to counter Cutter spamming marines out of minibases that reinforce much more quickly than your own army. Losing that first skirmish against Cutter cripples you for the rest of the game, you can turtle up but it just delays the inevitable. Decimus has a good infantry/leader push too that would be better to deal with if we had good anti infantry units. Snipers are not cost effective until tier 3 where they greatly outrange and stun units.
>
> I agree with this. How would you buff them? Speed? DPS?
> Personally, I think Cutter needs to be put in check. That seems to bring up a ton of backlash from some players, but so many threads are about how we need to change things to match Cutter, or so that other leaders can compete with Cutter.
> Why not just change Cutter to match the game?
>
> I agree about snipers though.
> In T1, it’s wild to drop 150power on each unit.

A 150 power unit that can be focused down easily by Cutters grenade marines. Or hilariously get ODST’s dropped on them. Against all other leaders Snipers can kite to stay alive but Cutters UNSC raid 2 and ODST’s makes that irrelevant. Its really bad. If i play another UNSC i can almost guarantee im going to win, against Cutter its a vitual guaranteed loss. This is not balance. 343 needs to take notes.

I wish forge and johnson had some kind of last stand mode where they were just like a marine unit. Seems so unbuff that two main characters who died boots on the ground are in a warhog and mech. I mean johnson survived the flood and many other things. Forge kills the arbiter 1v1, no warhog or mech just his guns and knife. I do understand why its like this though. They would basically be underpowered spartans and every other hero would destroy them if they didn’t have the warhog and mech.

> 2535422802208233;9:
> > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > >
> > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > >
> > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > >
> > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > >
> > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > >
> > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > >
> > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > >
> > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > >
> > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > >
> > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > >
> > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > >
> > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> >
> > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> >
> > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> >
> > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> >
> > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
>
> honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.

Yeah it would be different if you could actually land Scatter bomb but you can’t because of the speed boost. Then he just dog piles you because he can build a marine out of every mini. They just run in range of kodiak’s and kill you anyways. My real problem with grizzly drop is once you use it the game can literally be over before it comes back. It takes so long to come back its not even a kill power or even on par with them.

I find it rather weird you list Cutter as being fairly easy to beat with Forge yet every Forge I’ve faced I’m almost happy inside because I know it’s an easy rush and I’m talking full pop at 4-5 minutes and coming straight for you. I guess it’s all about the speed but I find Forge one of my easiest matchs up as Cutter. Mind you the same works for Jerome and his rabbit rush I’ve shut that and mantis down by just out massing them and grenade throws.

> 2533274796391115;12:
> > 2535422802208233;11:
> > > 2533274796391115;10:
> > > > 2535422802208233;9:
> > > > > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > > > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > > > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> > > > >
> > > > > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
> > > >
> > > > honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.
> > >
> > > I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.
> > >
> > > I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.
> >
> > I would be fine with this being the case for hellbringers. UNSC needs a way to counter Cutter spamming marines out of minibases that reinforce much more quickly than your own army. Losing that first skirmish against Cutter cripples you for the rest of the game, you can turtle up but it just delays the inevitable. Decimus has a good infantry/leader push too that would be better to deal with if we had good anti infantry units. Snipers are not cost effective until tier 3 where they greatly outrange and stun units.
>
> I agree with this. How would you buff them? Speed? DPS?
> Personally, I think Cutter needs to be put in check. That seems to bring up a ton of backlash from some players, but so many threads are about how we need to change things to match Cutter, or so that other leaders can compete with Cutter.
> Why not just change Cutter to match the game?
>
> I agree about snipers though.
> In T1, it’s wild to drop 150power on each unit.

People don’t want Cutter to be touched because he is the most simple leader to play who is easy to pick up and do well because of strong unit drops.

> 2535448113686542;16:
> I find it rather weird you list Cutter as being fairly easy to beat with Forge yet every Forge I’ve faced I’m almost happy inside because I know it’s an easy rush and I’m talking full pop at 4-5 minutes and coming straight for you. I guess it’s all about the speed but I find Forge one of my easiest matchs up as Cutter. Mind you the same works for Jerome and his rabbit rush I’ve shut that and mantis down by just out massing them and grenade throws.

I dont list him as being easy to beat…no where do i say that. If you are a forge and you beat a Cutter then your skill level was way beyond his. An equally skilled Forge does not beat an equally skilled Cutter at all ever. Not with the current state of the game.

> 2695457991280734;17:
> > 2533274796391115;12:
> > > 2535422802208233;11:
> > > > 2533274796391115;10:
> > > > > 2535422802208233;9:
> > > > > > 2533274846367343;8:
> > > > > > > 2535422802208233;1:
> > > > > > > I made a previous thread for general tips for Forge, here is some issues I run into with specific leaders. Semi comedy involved
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Isabel - Have yet to lose to Isabel. Poor lass. She can never get map control then vultures/cyclops/forgehog ruins her day.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Johnson- Anyone actually play as this leader? This dude is AWOL.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Anders- Off having relations with Johnson? havent seen her.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Jerome- Tough match up, If you use Grizzly drop thats GG when three Spartans of Jerome jack your -Yoink-. Combat salvage doesnt replace your jacked vultures either. Grenade marines and Forge do pretty well against jackrabbit openings assuming your good about unit placement. This is one of the leaders i recommend going infantry against as Forge to better deal with his spartans. Shock round cyclops does very well against the mantis. Use your eco advantage to overwhelm early and often.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Cutter- You will think your doing well until ODSTs rain down on your face. Forge can match Cutters unit output but cant keep up with his speed and ability to pick engagements or counter capture nodes and destroy minibases. Transport counter attack has some high payout when executed correctly. Must split units well and have good defense to keep from being picked apart by his guerrilla play.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Kinsano- An easier version of Cutter. Split units well and use Forgehog to defend mini bases and power nodes from Kinsanos constant unit calldowns and multi-area harassment. Good defense and making use of Forges Economy will win this one. Vultures ruin her day as two of her damage dealing leader powers cant touch them nor can her leader, who i currently consider to be a complete waste of resources.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Shipmaster- Shipmaster struggles against forge in direct engagements like he does many other leaders. Get early game advantage with Forges eco to take a fast expo and powernodes. get up good defenses in preparation of a transport behind your base. Always leave some of your army back home vs shipmaster unless he just used teleport and always have detection units, Vultures/wolverine or vulture nightingale depending on his army comp. Mass infantry is a great way to get suicide grunts teleported onto your army and is not recommended to move a massive infantry ball around against this leader.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Atriox - Grenade marines and forgehog can match Chosen and grunts. Dont give up map control. Combat salvage and heavy metal. Fully Upgrade Heavy metal to combat eradication and make sure you use Heavy Metal when you are being eradicated or your army is toast.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Colony- Hunters Brand Hunters Brand Hunters Brand. Damn that spell is annoying. Never clump up your army vs colony. hunters brand will vaporize 40 population of infantry early on. There isnt much time to put heavy metal in place either as the spell hits fast unless he uses it when you already have heavy metal up…which is dumb. Vultures, counter units, and combat salvage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Decimus - Not much experience with this one. Dont clump units because vortex, i actually recommend getting scatterbomb as Decimus cant micro his army away if hes using vortex and the animation takes awhile. Scatterbomb sucks but staying in the blast field during the entire attack is still devastating. Watch for heavy rushes from this one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VS Arbiter - Mostly just see enforcer rush, jackrabbits/forgehog i guess? Never have too much trouble with this one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah Never really do the vultures thing. I do a lot of the infantry and counter spam.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With Cutter I generally try to set up a situation where he has to fight me and then cause him to go down units. Then Forge is a generally capable of just over whelming with units. You also have the advantage of Forge hog being better than his hero. The blind pump of flamers/snipers when Cutter loses tempo usually means victory. If it means you have to Tra-la-la-la over to his direct mini base to do so, then you gotta take that risk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Every other UNSC you can basically Cutter them because he can out unit most everyone. He also can reversal with Grizzly drop if he gets semi wiped. Once you get late game he can out play most leaders with the hornet/clops/night set up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Banished all have good match ups so its prolly in their favor but you can swing that V.
> > > > >
> > > > > honestly if they just buff flamers and kodiaks then Forge can compete with cutter. UNSC needs a cheap anti infantry unit that is actually effective to counter infantry spam the way banished has suicide grunts. I shouldnt be done in everygame by a guy massing tier one units. Kodiak drop should be much more effective than it actually is. I dont have a useful leader power for mid game support until combat salvage and grizzly drop and the grizzly drop is super expensive. combat salvage isnt cost effective unless you have a good amount of expensive units.
> > > >
> > > > I’m torn on this. Suicide grunts are great for ending an infantry spam, but that’s about it. When they’re done, they’re done, and they’re worthless against buildings and vehicles. And, aside from enforcers, UNSC has the better T1 infantry.
> > > >
> > > > I guess I just worry that a buff to flamers would go too far.
> > >
> > > I would be fine with this being the case for hellbringers. UNSC needs a way to counter Cutter spamming marines out of minibases that reinforce much more quickly than your own army. Losing that first skirmish against Cutter cripples you for the rest of the game, you can turtle up but it just delays the inevitable. Decimus has a good infantry/leader push too that would be better to deal with if we had good anti infantry units. Snipers are not cost effective until tier 3 where they greatly outrange and stun units.
> >
> > I agree with this. How would you buff them? Speed? DPS?
> > Personally, I think Cutter needs to be put in check. That seems to bring up a ton of backlash from some players, but so many threads are about how we need to change things to match Cutter, or so that other leaders can compete with Cutter.
> > Why not just change Cutter to match the game?
> >
> > I agree about snipers though.
> > In T1, it’s wild to drop 150power on each unit.
>
> People don’t want Cutter to be touched because he is the most simple leader to play who is easy to pick up and do well because of strong unit drops.

Strong unit drops and a very straightforward and useful passive. The reason i play forge is because i find cutter to be boring.

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> > I find it rather weird you list Cutter as being fairly easy to beat with Forge yet every Forge I’ve faced I’m almost happy inside because I know it’s an easy rush and I’m talking full pop at 4-5 minutes and coming straight for you. I guess it’s all about the speed but I find Forge one of my easiest matchs up as Cutter. Mind you the same works for Jerome and his rabbit rush I’ve shut that and mantis down by just out massing them and grenade throws.
>
> I dont list him as being easy to beat…no where do i say that. If you are a forge and you beat a Cutter then your skill level was way beyond his. An equally skilled Forge does not beat an equally skilled Cutter at all ever. Not with the current state of the game.

I think we both misunderstood each other, I was meaning from Cutter’s point of view and re-reading your original it doesn’t seem to be as easy for Forge as I thought you were making out.