Landfall CTF: Never again

As a huge Objective player Ive always been disgusted with 343’s lack of 1-sided gametyoes on asymmetrical maps. Last night I had the misfortune of the same ordeal that 343 is too incompetant to realize:

Multi-flag on asymmetrical maps just DOESNT WORK.

Who at 343 tests these game types in advance? The Red team has the most ridiculous disadvantage on Landfall CTF I have ever seen. Let me start with the most glaring and obvious complaint people are going to say in t he coming days/weeks:

The flag spawns. As Red team, your flag soawns at the bottom of 2 staircases next to the main building of the map, outside, just in the open. This may seem like a disadvantage. Ill explain why it’s not soon. Blue team, however, has their flag spawned INSIDE of the smaller outer-base in the confined corner of the map.

Sound familiar? Oh, yes! It’s like Abandon all over again! Wait, didnt it’s flag spawns JUST get moved, too? It did, because they were flawed, and may still be as I havent played Abandon CTF yet. Who thinks having 2 teams fighting for flags believes it’s equal footing having 1 teams flag out in the open while another is confined in a base?

Here’s the case reasoning: Lines of Sight. 343 believes just because a flag is exposed in asymmetrical maps that it makes it even if the other teams flag is confined in a base as long as sightlines are consistent. Problem is, they arent consistent. At all.

On Landfall, Red teams flag is out in the open among 2 stairwells to the main building. The problem is, there’s no way for Red team to properly defend their flag. All the “entrances” or rather making way to the flag is all from higher ground. 2 doorways up top, 1 lower, and a massive open-area where people can stand atop Containers and the like and pick off the lower-standing red-team. Should red team assume this and attempt to play from doorways it’s still a losing situation. If the carrier makes it to the doorway (roughly 5 seconds travel) then it’s almost guaranteed the carrier will make it nearly to his base before any sighlines are restored as he can take travel through main building.

Blue team’s base. Where to begin. There’s 1 drop down hole that has no use in infiltrating a base because that spot is more meant for Rockets to flush enemies away, which arent a part of the map anymore so dropping in usually results in death. Also, there’s 3 doors on the bottom floor. However, you spawn with boltshots and there’s a quick-respawning Shotgun on the map. Realistically, a Shotgun in this situation can hold off multiple people in alot of scenarios. Even if a couple people DO overcome a squatter, the next problem presents itself:

Should Red team steal Blue teams flag, the first 5 seconds of movement are vital to getting away with the flag. Based on blue’s spawn points, by the 5 seconds of time passing, blue can easily pick off on the carrier because the only viable route is towards main base’s back hall (by Shotgun spawn). There is no real viability to take it by old rocket spawn as it’s the most populated area of the map at any given time. Now what map does that sound like? Complex. Where 1 team can lift (get away) with the flag within seconds while another team is doomed to leave their current area without getting absolutely destroyed.

The last reason this setup is problematic: Respawning enemies. Because of the main building, blue team will almost guaranteed get Reds flag all the way to the open area outside blues base before dying. Red team can experience the same equal deaths in this same area pulling the blue’s flag. The difference? Respawns. The timer is 15 seconds for Flag Reset. Since the red flag will be close to blue base, they can basically inch-by-inch the flag til it’s roughly close to their base and it’s capped because their spawns are within the immediate vicinity. But, red team? They will spawn cross-map. So by the time Red gets to the dropped flag it wouldve reset because it’s in that same death-zone area.

It just seems blue team can defend and play offense alot easier than red team can. Infiltrating and holding off blue is a nightmare even if you out-skill the other team due to blue seemingly having a consistent height advantage on Red.

To fix this, the flag spawns for EACH team need moved. The initial Blue spawn from previous Slayer iterations should be used, and Red team should spawn corner-side dock area with the raised platform with the flag placed between the raised platform and main building, but closer to the platform. Blue flag should be placed in the corner by the heavy door behind their spawn next to main base. This makes each flag have an equal amount of coverage as the pulling team can play offense fo a fair extent to pull a flag and both allow coverage for the flag carriers as well to get back.

TL;DR: Flag spawns are severely uneven. To fix, read the above paragraph.

Edit: also, since Red would spawn closer to the current Sniper, and blue further away, it ahould be moved to the bottom of the ramp on the opposite side (by the current blue base). That way it covers the outer areas while Shotgun would run the interiors, where they are meant to be used.

TL;DR and i know this too well thanks to the maps abandon and complex.
Edit:
Did read, short summary:
Different flag positions (one in the open, one in base) and different spawn locations make up for an unfair advantage beacause one flag is easier to defend then the other. A huge factor is line of sight. Different spawn and flag locations doesn’t make up for the alterated gameplay on each side of the map, leaving one team in an obvious advantage.

Fix:
Bring back 1 flag ctf, make it 2 rounds, switch teams in between.
Result:
Asymmetrical maps are playable in ctf now.

Fix Plus:
Make rounds each lasting 5 minutes or until a flag is captured. Total of 4 rounds.
Result:
Game ending is on a wage, people won’t leave as much as when the enemy team destroys you and then its your turn. Players won’t be killfarmed and have a motivation to actually capture the flag.

Way too hard to implement, right?
Oh it was already done in Halo 3? Nevermind.

Landfall CTF isn’t nearly as imbalanced as Abandon or Complex. I actually enjoy CTF on that map.

> TL;DR and i know this too well thanks to the maps abandon and complex.
> Edit:
> Did read, short summary:
> Different flag positions (one in the open, one in base) and different spawn locations make up for an unfair advantage beacause one flag is easier to defend then the other. A huge factor is line of sight. Different spawn and flag locations doesn’t make up for the alterated gameplay on each side of the map, leaving one team in an obvious advantage.
>
> Fix:
> Bring back 1 flag ctf, make it 2 rounds, switch teams in between.
> Result:
> Asymmetrical maps are playable in ctf now.
>
> Fix Plus:
> Make rounds each lasting 5 minutes or until a flag is captured. Total of 4 rounds.
> Result:
> Game ending is on a wage, people won’t leave as much as when the enemy team destroys you and then its your turn. Players won’t be killfarmed and have a motivation to actually capture the flag.
>
> Way too hard to implement, right?
> Oh it was already done in Halo 3? Nevermind.

Thanks for the summary. As the guy above stated, yes, it IS my favorite asymmetrical map to play CTF on, even if it is unbalanced. While it IS unbalanced, the problem still remains that due to the issues mentioned in my OP, it’s not consistent that the better team wins even when both teams are specifically playing the Objective. 1-Flag would be perfect here. Another reason I like playing it; it’s a good map all around anyways.

An even easier fix would be to just switch team sides in between after half the time mark or half of the needed captures.

It boggles my mind why they didn’t implement that.
They got so many asymetrical maps (which I really like too) but did remove 1-flag as it was already part of prior games?

Offtopic:
Hint for 343: BETA. Halo 5. Do it. No MLG. Random Invites with active Forum members.

No problem for the summary btw. :slight_smile:

Good post. I miss 1 sided flag/assault gametypes, and 343 apparently just does not get them. One of which isn’t even in the game anymore.

> An even easier fix would be to just switch team sides in between after half the time mark or half of the needed captures.
>
> It boggles my mind why they didn’t implement that.
> They got so many asymetrical maps (which I really like too) but did remove 1-flag as it was already part of prior games?
>
> Offtopic:
> Hint for 343: BETA. Halo 5. Do it. No MLG. Random Invites with active Forum members.
>
> No problem for the summary btw. :slight_smile:

The hilarious part is that if you go into Forge, Blue Team is “attacker” and Red Team is “defender”, despite asymmetry being done away with…

> > An even easier fix would be to just switch team sides in between after half the time mark or half of the needed captures.
> >
> > It boggles my mind why they didn’t implement that.
> > They got so many asymetrical maps (which I really like too) but did remove 1-flag as it was already part of prior games?
> >
> > Offtopic:
> > Hint for 343: BETA. Halo 5. Do it. No MLG. Random Invites with active Forum members.
> >
> > No problem for the summary btw. :slight_smile:
>
> The hilarious part is that if you go into Forge, Blue Team is “attacker” and Red Team is “defender”, despite asymmetry being done away with…

That’s what you’d think. At any point though, 343 is going to have to reintroduce it. It makes 0 sense not to.