Lack of initiative to get better in Reach

I think what the most Halo fans that dislike Reach keep from having fun in Reach is the thing that you don´t have to be good to win a match. I remember the days when I played a ffa slayer with my mates from school that really are bad at Halo and console shooters. They would never get more than 3 or 4 kills in a match but in Reach every stupid damn noob can get a overkill or killing spree. See this video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDtXwIWvzM (I don´t want to be offened but this player really lacks skill but still he get´s many kills.)
I and I think many other Halo fans that think the same won´t come back to Halo until it´s turned in a skilled Shooter again like H1,2,3. We can only hope that a TU from 343i can save Reach and so we can continue having fun at Halo.

> I think what the most Halo fans that dislike Reach keep from having fun in Reach is the thing that you don´t have to be good to win a match. I remember the days when I played a ffa slayer with my mates from school that really are bad at Halo and console shooters. They would never get more than 3 or 4 kills in a match but in Reach every stupid damn noob can get a overkill or killing spree. See this video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDtXwIWvzM (I don´t want to be offened but this player really lacks skill but still he get´s many kills.)
> I and I think many other Halo fans that think the same won´t come back to Halo until it´s turned in a skilled Shooter again like H1,2,3. We can only hope that a TU from 343i can save Reach and so we can continue having fun at Halo.

Fixed.
I see where you are coming from and Bungie’s excuse was they wanted people that never played Halo before to stand a chance and i think this is selfish because they have forgot about the more die hard fans who hae supported them since Halo CE

@Br0ken Tears
Yeah exactly. I feel somewhat betrayed by Bungie. I really didn´t understand first why I disliked Reach. Now I really hate this game so much from my heart. Every friend I played Halo with me on xbox live doesn´t play Halo anymore and I see no reason to buy xbox gold for playing an unbalanced and frustrating multiplayer. Please 343i make Halo 4 a game for Halo fans and not newcomers and if you can change Reach in a better way than DO IT. And the thing is that Halo is the game I feel in love and I don´t want to leave it only because of the stupidness from Bungie.

> @Br0ken Tears
> Yeah exactly. I feel somewhat betrayed by Bungie. I really didn´t understand first why I disliked Reach. Now I really hate this game so much from my heart. Every friend I played Halo with me on xbox live doesn´t play Halo anymore and I see no reason to buy xbox gold for playing an unbalanced and frustrating multiplayer. Please 343i make Halo 4 a game for Halo fans and not newcomers and if you can change Reach in a better way than DO IT. And the thing is that Halo is the game I feel in love and I don´t want to leave it only because of the stupidness from Bungie.

this.

previously halo games were made with skill gap in mind, or at least thats how they panned out. with reach, it is all but apparent they tried to suck out as much skill gap as they could in a lot of different areas such as melees, grenades, and especially AA’s (armor lock).

halo reach has been the biggest disappointment of a game i have ever bought. ive played and bought worse games, dont get me wrong, but i expected more from a halo game.

halos 1, 2, AND 3 i could play for hours on end and never get bored. they were all adrenaline-inducing, amazingly fun games. with halo reach i basically have to be playing with a friend in order to not get bored after 2 games, and even then i still dont especially like the game or have fun playing it.

i really hope skill gap is re-included in halo 4. hopefully they dont take any of the core game mechanics from halo reach (save maybe tweaked versions of AAs for CUSTOM GAMES ONLY), leaving no-bleed melees, mini nuke grenades, and the random outcome DMR out of the picture.

> > @Br0ken Tears
> > Yeah exactly. I feel somewhat betrayed by Bungie. I really didn´t understand first why I disliked Reach. Now I really hate this game so much from my heart. Every friend I played Halo with me on xbox live doesn´t play Halo anymore and I see no reason to buy xbox gold for playing an unbalanced and frustrating multiplayer. Please 343i make Halo 4 a game for Halo fans and not newcomers and if you can change Reach in a better way than DO IT. And the thing is that Halo is the game I feel in love and I don´t want to leave it only because of the stupidness from Bungie.
>
> this.
>
> previously halo games were made with skill gap in mind, or at least thats how they panned out. with reach, it is all but apparent they tried to suck out as much skill gap as they could in a lot of different areas such as melees, grenades, and especially AA’s (armor lock).
>
> halo reach has been the biggest disappointment of a game i have ever bought. ive played and bought worse games, dont get me wrong, but i expected more from a halo game.
>
> halos 1, 2, AND 3 i could play for hours on end and never get bored. they were all adrenaline-inducing, amazingly fun games. with halo reach i basically have to be playing with a friend in order to not get bored after 2 games, and even then i still dont especially like the game or have fun playing it.
>
> i really hope skill gap is re-included in halo 4. hopefully they dont take any of the core game mechanics from halo reach (save maybe tweaked versions of AAs for CUSTOM GAMES ONLY), leaving no-bleed melees, mini nuke grenades, and the random outcome DMR out of the picture.

I really 100% agree with that. I have somewhat the hope that 343i can bring back the fun back in Halo maybe even in Reach but then they have to rebuild the whole game. I read somewhere that 343i wants to make H4 more like Halo CE. I hope it´s true so we can enjoy Halo again :smiley:

Anyone remember the days in Halo 2 and 3 when you played like 5 hours successively only to get better with the sniper and BR or the good times in a party when everyone trashtalked and laughed and cursed when they got killed. The time when maps looked good and new and were it was skill to get a overkill in love wolves. The days when peoples meet and played for days custom games on really good community maps and mods. When getting a 50 in MLG was really something worth and people played to win a game and have a good time. I really miss these days.
RIP Halo.

That video showcases very well what’s wrong with Reach: Kiling an opponent merely by spraying with the AR and maybe finishing up with a melee attack is way too easy.

I’ve said it time and time again that the AR in Reach is overpowered. A weapon’s power not only stems from how quickly it kills, but also from how easy it is to use, and how much ammo is available for it. And the AR kills very quickly, is ridiculously easy to use, and has a virtually unlimited supply of ammo since everyone starts with it. Thus it’s overpowered.

In my opinion, the whole problem comes from the fact that Bungie aren’t FPS players. They’re just people who happened to make a few FPS games without really knowing how such a game ought to work from the perspective of a player who has played his fair share of FPS and thus has experience and knowledge about what works and what doesn’t.

Quick and precise aiming should always beat mindless spraying, unless that easy-to-use spray weapon happens to be a designated power weapon like the rocket launcher; it’s rare, has low ammo supply, and it’s easy to get a kill with. In such a case a powerful spray weapon is fine. But it’s not fine if such a powerful weapon is the de facto default weapon.

I really hope 343i learn from this mistake and design H4’s multiplayer how it’s supposed to be: Reward aiming and not spraying.

Hopefully the TU will just increase the skill gap with Bloom on the main precision weapons so it won’t matter how others pull off their kills with the weaker weapons. In Reach’s current state, the skill gap is based off of who can spam there weapon the best and get lucky enough to land the last headshot. With a tweaked bloom, the skill gap can go beyond what the previous Halo’s were and create an amazing learning curve that has an endless limit. The Beta was a small sample of how addicting Bloom can be when it is working properly. The TU will bring the greatness out of Reach.

> I really hope 343i learn from this mistake and design H4’s multiplayer how it’s supposed to be: Reward aiming and not spraying.

Yes, i think Halo 3 nail’d that idea.
in Halo 3 when it came to new players they would use the Assault rifle because it was automatic.
Now if they were to stay on the game long enough they would of found out the BR, although a burst fire gun, was way more consistent and to be good at Halo 3 you had to be good with this weapon.

@Gangster
I agree with that too but Bungie were when they made H1,2,3 no FPS gamers too but they still made a great game.

@AngeLexus
Yeah. The Beta was for me much more enjoyable than the current reach. I think one reason were the maps. We didn´t know that Bungie was too lazy to make maps that aren´t from campaign so we had fun and Invasion and Generator defense were a blast.

It is sad that the guy in the video walked over a needle rifle but never picked it up. That video proves that Reach is the worst Halo game to ever be released. What makes me mad is that when I have a dmr, people still kill me at any distance with an ar when I am shooting them in the head with the dmr and not missing a shot.

This is why I play Halo 3 over Reach. Bad game mechanics in Reach allow guests and lower skilled players the ability to beat players who should rightfully own in the game a loss. Take BTB in Reach compared to Halo 3 BTB. In Reach BTB sure the vehicles are not damage proof from the DMR but trying to DMR a vehicle to death all by yourself b/c your teammates are a pile of herp derps doesn’t work. There aren’t enough laser spawns or even lasers on some of the maps so the end result is getting killed by a player who was a 1st lieutenant in halo 3 a killing frenzy b/c oh “yay the splash damage of the banshee bomb requires you only to close your eyes and fire a random shot and boom you got a free kill”.

Halo 3 BTB this story is very different. No banshee will kill me, no player who doesn’t have the skill will take me down, and if you think I need a laser to take a banshee down think again.

BTB with some players my same level this is how a game in Reach should look: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1840438879&player=Mystical%20Gaming

BTB with players below my level this how Reach should be: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1854984834&player=Mystical%20Gaming

Too Bad reach wasn’t a real game like Halo 3. In Halo 3 don’t even bother trying to kill me with that basnhee, I don’t need a laser either, I’ll just stick you and still live: [http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1873738475&player=Mystical%20Gaming

](http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1873738475&player=Mystical%20Gaming)

I see some trends in here, and I’ve come to the conclusion that 343 should, in terms of multiplayer, forget Reach ever happened when designing Halo 4. Acknowledge that for competitive players, it’s a pile of poop, and focus on drawing inspiration from Halo CE/2.

I hope that 343i is pursuing a similar strategy like Bioware. Maybe than some fans would come back.

I’ll play reach again when the TU hits, but if it doesn’t change the gameplay enough to make it more like Halo CE/2, i’ll just stop playing this noobish game.

I agree with you guys. Even though Reach is a great game it’s aimed more for casual gamers and that’s the mistake bungie made. I repeat this even though I am competitive gamer, Reach is by the far most enjoyable Halo game I’ve played because of variation.

In Reach I can use every weapon and actually get a kill. Unlike in Halo 3, BR was must to get and AR was useless (and almost every other weapon in the game). Even though I enjoyed kicking noobs -Yoink- it felt boring when I was actually using only one weapon.

In Halo 4 I expect that all the guns are powerfull (even full-automatic guns) but still the most skilled player should win.

Reach was designed to be a casual game. Like it or not, the evidence stands. This is a huge mistake. Why? In a competitive game (Halo 3, for example), casual players could manage to have fun in competitive games. But it doesn’t work in vice-versa; competitive players can’t have fun in a casual environment.

Hopefully 343i can fix some issues forcing Reach to be a casual game.

> I see some trends in here, and I’ve come to the conclusion that 343 should, in terms of multiplayer, forget Reach ever happened when designing Halo 4. Acknowledge that for competitive players, it’s a pile of poop, and focus on drawing inspiration from Halo CE/2.

Drawing inspiration from H2 isn’t such a good idea, I think. While BR-start games with either magnum secondary or no secondary weapon at all were probably the best multiplayer experience in Halo so far, the default settings where SMG starts. And that instantly devolved into dual-spray -Yoink!- that were even worse than what we now have in Reach with the idiotic AR starts.

Cool story, bros.

I’ve got an even cooler theory to propose, though. What if, because Halo 2 was the first Halo that you could play over XBL, and the fact that it had a poor MM system, people thought it was ‘hard’. The system was matching noobs up with ‘pros’ and people were getting smashed all the time thanks to the fact that the system had a hard time matching you up with similar skilled players. Because it was the first to be played over XBL, and even though you were the best kid on the block, you found out you sucked major wang compared to the rest of the world; you thought Halo 2 was hard. Everyone thought Halo 2 was hard because, for most, it was their first experience of online Halo.

Then comes Halo 3. Thanks to a few years of playing Halo 2, Halo 3 all of a sudden seems easier. Perhaps the improved MM system made it even easier as it was far more efficient at matching similar skilled players than Halo 2 was. Now, getting that 50 didn’t seem so hard.

Then Reach rolls around. You’ve been playing Halo for years. The code’s been optimized. You’re constantly playing with people with similar skill. Noobs play with noobs. ‘Pros’ play with ‘pros’. People think it’s ‘easy’ because the system’s doing what it’s meant to be doing; matching people up with similar skill.

What I’m saying is that Reach isn’t ‘easier’. Players have more “Halo experience” now than they did when Halo 2 launched. The code that matches people up with similar skill is the best it’s been, and it’s trying its best to not match you up with ‘pros’ so you don’t get smashed.

Lastly, I don’t know why people keep throwing that video around. He’s obviously a noob and as such the players that are most likely to match up with him are noobs too. Noob vs noob. The noob gets kills using noob tactics, derp. If someone was AR rushing me they’d definitely die. Hell, he wouldn’t stand a chance if he was playing against half decent players.

> Then Reach rolls around. You’ve been playing Halo for years. The code’s been optimized. You’re constantly playing with people with similar skill. Noobs play with noobs. ‘Pros’ play with ‘pros’. People think it’s ‘easy’ because the system’s doing what it’s meant to be doing; matching people up with similar skill.

You’re joking, right? It’s widely accepted that the TrueSkill constraints in Reach are so liberal as to be almost non-existent. Hell, let me grab a few of my recent games:

http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=696654330&player=Sentox6
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=696639288&player=Sentox6
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=696616239&player=Sentox6
http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=696611605&player=Sentox6