To me Halo has always distinguished itself from the crowd as an arcade-like shooter all about hunting for weapons and items within the playspace that give you an edge, rather than giving immediate power to your character. De-emphasizing this was my biggest gripe with 4 and 5 and I’m glad to see Halo gravitate more towards its roots, but a huge issue is still present. The overall increased damage and range of weapons suggests that 343i still wants to slightly nudge the game towards being a more past-paced twitchy shooter.
This is the worst way to modernize Halo and faster killtimes only cheapen the gratification of acquiring new toys on the map. On top of narrowing down avenues for skill expression, you lose that sense of gravity when spartans are treated a lot more disposably. The adrenaline rush of grabbing a rocket launcher or grapple hook just isnt as substantial when you can kill or be killed with starting weapons within the span of a second. High killtimes are an important part of Halo’s identity. I don’t think infinite’s ttk is game ruining, but tone it down a skip.
> 2533274953195665;1:
> To me Halo has always distinguished itself from the crowd as an arcade-like shooter all about hunting for weapons and items within the playspace that give you an edge, rather than giving immediate power to your character. De-emphasizing this was my biggest gripe with 4 and 5 and I’m glad to see Halo gravitate more towards its roots, but a huge issue is still present. The overall increased damage and range of weapons suggests that 343i still wants to slightly nudge the game towards being a more past-paced twitchy shooter.
>
> This is the worst way to modernize Halo and faster killtimes only cheapen the gratification of acquiring new toys on the map. On top of narrowing down avenues for skill expression, you lose that sense of gravity when spartans are treated as a lot more disposably. The adrenaline rush of grabbing a rocket launcher or grapple hook just isnt as substantial when you can kill or be killed with starting weapons within the span of a second. High killtimes are an important part of Halo’s identity. I don’t think infinite’s ttk is game ruining by any means, but maybe tone it down a skip.
While I see what you’re getting at let me just point one thing out here:
M6D
I agree that the ttk is far to short, but I love that the AR is actually viable again. I started out playing Halo 4 with only the AR, but every other entry to the series it was hardly even viable. It was always that weapon that you’d just immediately throw aside, because it was awful. I hope it remains viable, but the ttk needs to be extended a bit. As things stand now the ttk is like that of CoD where you die in a couple bullets. The shields are practically useless as they are now.
> 2533274975565198;4:
> I agree that the ttk is far to short, but I love that the AR is actually viable again. I started out playing Halo 4 with only the AR, but every other entry to the series it was hardly even viable. It was always that weapon that you’d just immediately throw aside, because it was awful. I hope it remains viable, but the ttk needs to be extended a bit. As things stand now the ttk is like that of CoD where you die in a couple bullets. The shields are practically useless as they are now.
Fully agreed, I love when the assault rifle can chew up enemies at its intended range. Halo 4’s AR was perfect.
the TTK is still pretty high man, I mean ppl are already complaining about “spongyness”… I think it feels really good and fits the grenade, shoot, melee combat style.
I think I’m missing something. The sidekick isn’t good long range. It’s outclassed by the br from what I’ve experienced. Sidekick is great close range and pretty good mid range still but yea long range it has nothing on the commando or br. Though it’s true you can fire it so fast.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, as the other weapons still seem useful to me.
I think the ttk is going to feel longer once people get used to the movement and play against real people. There are a lot of options to disengage from a fight with pickups, map layout and movement tech so I dont think youre going to feel as squishy. That being said, the ttk is still mahbe a little too fast. I think giving you .2 seconds more survivability would be fair. The weapons stay as the currently are (maybe neef the AR spread at long range. It literally kills faster than the BR in the BR’s niche) and players feel less fragile but not to the point of invincibility what with all the options for running away.
> 2533274953195665;1:
> To me Halo has always distinguished itself from the crowd as an arcade-like shooter all about hunting for weapons and items within the playspace that give you an edge, rather than giving immediate power to your character. De-emphasizing this was my biggest gripe with 4 and 5 and I’m glad to see Halo gravitate more towards its roots, but a huge issue is still present. The overall increased damage and range of weapons suggests that 343i still wants to slightly nudge the game towards being a more past-paced twitchy shooter.
>
> This is the worst way to modernize Halo and faster killtimes only cheapen the gratification of acquiring new toys on the map. On top of narrowing down avenues for skill expression, you lose that sense of gravity when spartans are treated a lot more disposably. The adrenaline rush of grabbing a rocket launcher or grapple hook just isnt as substantial when you can kill or be killed with starting weapons within the span of a second. High killtimes are an important part of Halo’s identity. I don’t think infinite’s ttk is game ruining by any means, but maybe tone it down a skip.
I agree with this 100%. It’s far better than 4 and 5, but it still isn’t close to 2. 2 felt perfect to me because it took persistent skill to get kills instead of whoever points first wins. It wasn’t just point, shoot, and dead in half a second.
Easy fix is to increase shield strength a few %
I definitely feel that the TTK is a bit too low, but I don’t think it is an issue with every gun. I think the sidekick, battle rifle, VK78 Commando all kill in pretty reasonable times. The Needler is wayy to quick to supercombine I think. The Pulse Carbine is pretty inaccurate and slow moving, but at the same time the shots that do land do a lot of damage. I guess that is fine.
> 2533275026323708;3:
> > 2533274953195665;1:
> > To me Halo has always distinguished itself from the crowd as an arcade-like shooter all about hunting for weapons and items within the playspace that give you an edge, rather than giving immediate power to your character. De-emphasizing this was my biggest gripe with 4 and 5 and I’m glad to see Halo gravitate more towards its roots, but a huge issue is still present. The overall increased damage and range of weapons suggests that 343i still wants to slightly nudge the game towards being a more past-paced twitchy shooter.
> >
> > This is the worst way to modernize Halo and faster killtimes only cheapen the gratification of acquiring new toys on the map. On top of narrowing down avenues for skill expression, you lose that sense of gravity when spartans are treated as a lot more disposably. The adrenaline rush of grabbing a rocket launcher or grapple hook just isnt as substantial when you can kill or be killed with starting weapons within the span of a second. High killtimes are an important part of Halo’s identity. I don’t think infinite’s ttk is game ruining by any means, but maybe tone it down a skip.
>
> While I see what you’re getting at let me just point one thing out here:
>
> M6D
Fair fair but the bloom on the pistol kept it in check. Regardless most people prefer H2/3 anyways and see those games as THE halo games.
> 2535469656046236;6:
> the TTK is still pretty high man, I mean ppl are already complaining about “spongyness”… I think it feels really good and fits the grenade, shoot, melee combat style.
Haven’t seen anyone complain about spongyness. Have seen a lot complain about low TTK though. So dk what you’re talking about. Unless these are players that are more used to COD.
> 2533275026323708;3:
> > 2533274953195665;1:
> > To me Halo has always distinguished itself from the crowd as an arcade-like shooter all about hunting for weapons and items within the playspace that give you an edge, rather than giving immediate power to your character. De-emphasizing this was my biggest gripe with 4 and 5 and I’m glad to see Halo gravitate more towards its roots, but a huge issue is still present. The overall increased damage and range of weapons suggests that 343i still wants to slightly nudge the game towards being a more past-paced twitchy shooter.
> >
> > This is the worst way to modernize Halo and faster killtimes only cheapen the gratification of acquiring new toys on the map. On top of narrowing down avenues for skill expression, you lose that sense of gravity when spartans are treated as a lot more disposably. The adrenaline rush of grabbing a rocket launcher or grapple hook just isnt as substantial when you can kill or be killed with starting weapons within the span of a second. High killtimes are an important part of Halo’s identity. I don’t think infinite’s ttk is game ruining by any means, but maybe tone it down a skip.
>
> While I see what you’re getting at let me just point one thing out here:
>
> M6D
This is -Yoinking!- facts. nothing like getting 3 shot. Or even stun locked by the OG plasma rifle.
> 2535469656046236;6:
> the TTK is still pretty high man, I mean ppl are already complaining about “spongyness”… I think it feels really good and fits the grenade, shoot, melee combat style.
That’s the first I’ve heard of spongyness. Whoever is saying that is crazy, because the reality is the complete opposite.
What is a viable solution here?
I believe the multiplayer is centered around the BR which takes four shots to kill. Once they have the fire rate chosen for it, then the other “loadout” weapons (AR, Commando, Pistol,) need to be similar. Pistol is 7 shots to kill and commando 6. All that to say those guns are all pretty much equal in ttk with each having a particular advantage.
Generally, rate of fire is faster to accommodate for quicker movement speed and gameplay. Add in much higher accuracy and range, and TTK goes down compared to older games. I think that’s all fine and will make movement and cover more important.
The question now is: why woud I use power weapons? Since raw power alone isn’t as big of a factor now, PW need to have other attributes to make them more useful. Explosions need a bigger radius, shotgun needs more range, bouncing projectiles, lasting burn effect, longer shield recharge delay on hit, etc. So far power weapons give you an edge and are worth using but don’t give the same dominant map lockdown oppression of old. Whether that’s good or bad IDK.
In conclusion, I don’t see a way to increase TTK without having to alter and rebalance the entire gameplay experience.
TTK feels about right to me personally, though that could be my poor aiming…takes around 75% of an AR clip to take out an AI.
I don’t honestly think you should worry about ttk until we can do actual TTK analysis against stationary targets.
Who cares if TTK against bots is really fast? You’re almost never going to hit those kill times against actual players outside of when you nail perfects and nade/melee/gun combos.
And a big thing that differentiates Halo to other shooters (imo) is how the perfect TTK is usually almost twice as fast as average TTK’s. So the best players can kill really quick, but it takes a lot of knowledge and practice to actually execute.
> 2533274930888284;16:
> What is a viable solution here?
> I believe the multiplayer is centered around the BR which takes four shots to kill. Once they have the fire rate chosen for it, then the other “loadout” weapons (AR, Commando, Pistol,) need to be similar. Pistol is 7 shots to kill and commando 6. All that to say those guns are all pretty much equal in ttk with each having a particular advantage.
>
> Generally, rate of fire is faster to accommodate for quicker movement speed and gameplay. Add in much higher accuracy and range, and TTK goes down compared to older games. I think that’s all fine and will make movement and cover more important.
>
> The question now is: why woud I use power weapons? Since raw power alone isn’t as big of a factor now, PW need to have other attributes to make them more useful. Explosions need a bigger radius, shotgun needs more range, bouncing projectiles, lasting burn effect, longer shield recharge delay on hit, etc. So far power weapons give you an edge and are worth using but don’t give the same dominant map lockdown oppression of old. Whether that’s good or bad IDK.
>
> In conclusion, I don’t see a way to increase TTK without having to alter and rebalance the entire gameplay experience.
I don’t actually think Halo actually needs a significantly lower ttk to accommodate faster movement speed. Halo isn’t a twitch shooter, it shares more of its dna with Unreal Tournament than it does Call of Duty. Assault rifles and pistols don’t need to be getting consistent cross-map kills. Power weapons are meant to give you that power trip, they reward you with quick kills if you play your cards right while being a difficult target to take down, rewarding the enemy equally if they can kill you. I don’t thinks its healthy for the flow of the game to diminish that power with everyone dying near-instantly at any moment, it dilutes what Halo is all about and it makes it blend more into the already oversaturated pool of generic military shooters.
> 2533274953195665;19:
> > 2533274930888284;16:
> > What is a viable solution here?
> > I believe the multiplayer is centered around the BR which takes four shots to kill. Once they have the fire rate chosen for it, then the other “loadout” weapons (AR, Commando, Pistol,) need to be similar. Pistol is 7 shots to kill and commando 6. All that to say those guns are all pretty much equal in ttk with each having a particular advantage.
> >
> > Generally, rate of fire is faster to accommodate for quicker movement speed and gameplay. Add in much higher accuracy and range, and TTK goes down compared to older games. I think that’s all fine and will make movement and cover more important.
> >
> > The question now is: why woud I use power weapons? Since raw power alone isn’t as big of a factor now, PW need to have other attributes to make them more useful. Explosions need a bigger radius, shotgun needs more range, bouncing projectiles, lasting burn effect, longer shield recharge delay on hit, etc. So far power weapons give you an edge and are worth using but don’t give the same dominant map lockdown oppression of old. Whether that’s good or bad IDK.
> >
> > In conclusion, I don’t see a way to increase TTK without having to alter and rebalance the entire gameplay experience.
>
> I don’t actually think Halo actually needs a significantly lower ttk to accommodate faster movement speed. Halo isn’t a twitch shooter, it shares more of its dna with Unreal Tournament than it does Call of Duty. Assault rifles and pistols don’t need to be getting consistent cross-map kills. Power weapons are meant to give you that power trip, they reward you with quick kills if you play your cards right while being a difficult target to take down, rewarding the enemy equally if they can kill you. I don’t thinks its healthy for the flow of the game to diminish that power with everyone dying near-instantly at any moment, it dilutes what Halo is all about and it makes it blend more into the already oversaturated pool of generic military shooters.
I agree with the most of this but what precisely is your purposed alteration to the current state of Hi?
larger reticles, slower rates of fire, higher number of shots to kill? Personally I think the H4 reticle size and rate of fire was the best on the AR and BR. Including descopes is meant to limit range but that’s irrelevant if you never have to zoom in because the reticle is small allowing for pinpoint accuracy. I believe the number of shots to kill is fine. Rate of fire could be lowered but going to far would allow people to get away to easily with sprint or close too much distance in the open.
Overall I would like to see the TTk increase a little. It is important not to mess up weapon balance in the process. TTk being too fast reduces the reward of getting a kill but if it is too slow, holding your own with a bad team becomes impossible.