My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
What do you all think?
> My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
>
> What do you all think?
The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
> > My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
> >
> > What do you all think?
>
> The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
>
> This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
ummm are you getting what im saying sir. Im was talking about loadout weapons, sorry if i didnt make that clear but if the killtimes are on par with each other for the weapons then they have clearly been balanced and the sniper is a power weapon.
In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
> In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
> > > My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
> > >
> > > What do you all think?
> >
> > The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
> >
> > This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
>
> ummm are you getting what im saying sir. Im was talking about loadout weapons, sorry if i didnt make that clear but if the killtimes are on par with each other for the weapons then they have clearly been balanced and the sniper is a power weapon.
Yes I understand you but you clearly don’t understand what I am saying. Killtime is not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another.
For example the sniper rifle, starting weapon or not, has a kill time of virtually zero. If killtime was the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another then the sniper would win hands down everytime, but it doesn’t becuase there are other factors to consider.
> > In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
>
> No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
You need to get rid of this notion that killtime is the only factor when determining whether a weapon is better than another because it simply isn’t.
> > > > My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
> > > >
> > > > What do you all think?
> > >
> > > The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
> > >
> > > This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
> >
> > ummm are you getting what im saying sir. Im was talking about loadout weapons, sorry if i didnt make that clear but if the killtimes are on par with each other for the weapons then they have clearly been balanced and the sniper is a power weapon.
>
> Yes I understand you but you clearly don’t understand what I am saying. Killtime is not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another.
>
> For example the sniper rifle, starting weapon or not, has a kill time of virtually zero. If killtime was the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another then the sniper would win hands down everytime, but it doesn’t becuase there are other factors to consider.
Bro…I get where your coming from but i’m NOT talking about power weapons like the sniper who have instant kill, im talking about drawn out battles from utility weapons like BR, DMR, Carbine and the Light Rifle. Weapons that you start out with and if one of the those utility weapons are best than that weapon will be the most picked resulting in it being unbalanced. Do you understand NOW.
> > > In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
> >
> > No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
>
> You need to get rid of this notion that killtime is the only factor when determining whether a weapon is better than another because it simply isn’t.
You obviously don’t know what im trying to say.
Oh fun. So we just swap the visual look and sound of the weapons and everything else is the same.
You clearly don’t have a clue how to create a game with a variety of ACTUAL weapon choices. Of course guns will have slightly different minimal kill times. Which means nothing because it is the average kill time in a given situation that is going to differentiate these guns. Of course all the 4sk proponents fail to think this way and re only concerned about that minimum kill time. I already made the argument in the 35 plus page BR thread, but here I go again. Even the devs said the ease of use and upward recoil makes the br beat the dmr close and on par mid range. Then the recoil and spread from distance separates the br from the dmr at range.
343 are making different guns that are effective in different ways. They arent making the same gun with 4 different weapon looks and sound.
> > > > > My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you all think?
> > > >
> > > > The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
> > > >
> > > > This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
> > >
> > > ummm are you getting what im saying sir. Im was talking about loadout weapons, sorry if i didnt make that clear but if the killtimes are on par with each other for the weapons then they have clearly been balanced and the sniper is a power weapon.
> >
> > Yes I understand you but you clearly don’t understand what I am saying. Killtime is not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another.
> >
> > For example the sniper rifle, starting weapon or not, has a kill time of virtually zero. If killtime was the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another then the sniper would win hands down everytime, but it doesn’t becuase there are other factors to consider.
>
> Bro…I get where your coming from but i’m NOT talking about power weapons like the sniper who have instant kill, im talking about drawn out battles from utility weapons like BR, DMR, Carbine and the Light Rifle. Weapons that you start out with and if one of the those utility weapons are best than that weapon will be the most picked resulting in it being unbalanced. Do you understand NOW.
Exactly which part of killtime is not the only factor in regards to balance do you not understand?
I am using the sniper rifle as an example to highlight this point. In a battle between someone using a DMR and a sniper the sniper doesn’t win all the time despite it having a considerably better kill time than the DMR, why do you suppose this is?
> > > > > > My only main concern over the game is that there will be one weapon(DMR) that will be the hardest to use and the hardest to master and have the fastest killtime. And that there will be one weapon(BR) that will be the easiest to use and the easiest to master and will have an ineffective killtime. IMO, ease of use should not be used when balancing a weapon as anybody with enough practice can master this weapon and use in any situation. Killtimes should be exact for the starting weapons making one not more powerful than the other which will soon mean everyone will use the same weapon because it is better. In the weapons trailer, we only saw 4 seconds of BR footage and 12 seconds of DMR and the DMR shoots fairly fast while we could hardly see any thing about the DMR. Just addressing my only concern.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What do you all think?
> > > > >
> > > > > The killtime of a weapon is not the only factor when deciding if a weapon is balanced. If it was then a sniper rifle would win every time as it has a kill time of virtually zero, but as I said killtime isn’t the only factor to consider.
> > > > >
> > > > > This whole DMR is going to own everything argument is simply silly as we haven’t played the finish game yet, and besides from every gameplay video I have seen the DMR certainly isn’t owning everything. The BR and Carbine seem to be holding their own just fine.
> > > >
> > > > ummm are you getting what im saying sir. Im was talking about loadout weapons, sorry if i didnt make that clear but if the killtimes are on par with each other for the weapons then they have clearly been balanced and the sniper is a power weapon.
> > >
> > > Ok imagine this… DMR has a Faster killtime than the BR.
> > > Guy with a DMR lands all 5shots on a guy using a BR at mid-range. The BR only lands all 4 shots because the killtime is slower but still landed all 4 shots that came out of the gun. Thats what i mean. Your taking ease of use into the situation when not everybody has a problem using weapons at close range even the sniper. Thats what you still dont understand yet.
> > > Yes I understand you but you clearly don’t understand what I am saying. Killtime is not the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another.
> > >
> > > For example the sniper rifle, starting weapon or not, has a kill time of virtually zero. If killtime was the only factor when it comes to whether a weapon is balanced against another then the sniper would win hands down everytime, but it doesn’t becuase there are other factors to consider.
> >
> > Bro…I get where your coming from but i’m NOT talking about power weapons like the sniper who have instant kill, im talking about drawn out battles from utility weapons like BR, DMR, Carbine and the Light Rifle. Weapons that you start out with and if one of the those utility weapons are best than that weapon will be the most picked resulting in it being unbalanced. Do you understand NOW.
>
> Exactly which part of killtime is not the only factor in regards to balance do you not understand?
>
> I am using the sniper rifle as an example to highlight this point. In a battle between someone using a DMR and a sniper the sniper doesn’t win all the time despite it having a considerably better kill time than the DMR, why do you suppose this is?
Sorry ran outta space… but imagine this. The DMR has a faster kill time than the BR. The DMR shoots 5 bullets and the lands all 5 bullets and the guy with the BR shoots 4 shots and lands those 4 shots. The guy with the BR is dead because the BR has a slower killtime and couldnt get the shots out fast enough. Ease of use does not matter, weapons can take time to master to use at all ranges.
> > In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
>
> No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
No, you don’t understand. The increased difficulty of a weapon’s usage should be rewarded. Otherwise said weapon will just go unused in favor of an easier weapon to use. The learning curve of the DRM would be comparable to a college degree, while the BR would be that of a high school diploma. While both allow you to land a job, it’s those extra years of schooling in college that tend to get you that larger payoff. And like college, while everyone is more than welcome to give it a go, not everyone is cut out for it and sometimes it just takes some people longer to complete their courses.
What I’m trying to say here is that a sufficient enough difficulty in use would keep “everyone” from using it or at least using it well and needing to resort to other weapons to compensate for their lack of kill with the DMR. The same thing could be applied to the BR, which would encourage yet more “unskilled” players to step down to the AR or perhaps even the SAW. I’m proposing the ideas of tiers to balance out the skill vs weapon usage.
I should also state that kill times shouldn’t be significantly different, but enough to reward someone for their time to get to know how the weapon works. I’ll go as far to say that the AR and SAW should have comparable kill times to the DMR and BR if used right and not at full-bore-spay-and-prey-while-running-at-someone-like-a-maniac-to-finish-with-the-melee.
Ramble, ramble. I need to get to work.
There’s more to gaming then killtimes.
> > > In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
> >
> > No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
>
> No, you don’t understand. The increased difficulty of a weapon’s usage should be rewarded. Otherwise said weapon will just go unused in favor of an easier weapon to use. The learning curve of the DRM would be comparable to a college degree, while the BR would be that of a high school diploma. While both allow you to land a job, it’s those extra years of schooling in college that tend to get you that larger payoff. And like college, while everyone is more than welcome to give it a go, not everyone is cut out for it and sometimes it just takes some people longer to complete their courses.
>
> What I’m trying to say here is that a sufficient enough difficulty in use would keep “everyone” from using it or at least using it well and needing to resort to other weapons to compensate for their lack of kill with the DMR. The same thing could be applied to the BR, which would encourage yet more “unskilled” players to step down to the AR or perhaps even the SAW. I’m proposing the ideas of tiers to balance out the skill vs weapon usage.
>
> I should also state that kill times shouldn’t be significantly different, but enough to reward someone for their time to get to know how the weapon works. I’ll go as far to say that the AR and SAW should have comparable kill times to the DMR and BR if used right and not at full-bore-spay-and-prey-while-running-at-someone-like-a-maniac-to-finish-with-the-melee.
>
> Ramble, ramble. I need to get to work.
Dude what is with you and this reward junk, your so called reward is getting a kill not having a better gun.
> Sorry ran outta space… but imagine this. The DMR has a faster kill time than the BR. The DMR shoots 5 bullets and the lands all 5 bullets and the guy with the BR shoots 4 shots and lands those 4 shots. The guy with the BR is dead because the BR has a slower killtime and couldnt get the shots out fast enough. Ease of use does not matter, weapons can take time to master to use at all ranges.
Wow… Answer the question I put to you. Why doesn’t the sniper win all the time? And if you don’t like me using the sniper then swap it for any other weapon that happens to have a faster kill time than the DMR. The AR for example looks like it will have a faster kill time than the DMR, so does that mean it will beat the DMR everytime?
> > In my opinion ALL precision weapons should be difficult to use until you’ve had sufficient practice with them. There should be a learning curve to prevent just anyone from picking up a BR, DMR, or even the pistol and just being able headshot to glory. This also awards people who take the time to learn to use their weapon system efficiently and effectively. However, I don’t believe all precision weapons should have the same kill time. Reward should be scaled with difficulty. If it takes longer to master, the pay off should be bigger. So say, the DMR is harder to use and accurately place those single shots than the BR’s three shot burst, then it should have a slightly reduced kill time.
>
> No, you dont understand either. Even if the DMR is harder to use it should still have the same kill time as the BR and if it indeed has a faster kill time it will be the number one pick and will outplace all other weapons due to fastest kill time, works at all ranges, and use. Starting weapons should have the same kill-times or it will be unbalanced and the one with the fastest kill time will obviously be the most picked.
If DMR is harder to use than BR but has an identical kill time, then everyone will pick BR.
> > Sorry ran outta space… but imagine this. The DMR has a faster kill time than the BR. The DMR shoots 5 bullets and the lands all 5 bullets and the guy with the BR shoots 4 shots and lands those 4 shots. The guy with the BR is dead because the BR has a slower killtime and couldnt get the shots out fast enough. Ease of use does not matter, weapons can take time to master to use at all ranges.
>
> Wow… Answer the question I put to you. Why doesn’t the sniper win all the time? And if you don’t like me using the sniper then swap it for any other weapon that happens to have a faster kill time than the DMR. The AR for example looks like it will have a faster kill time than the DMR, so does that mean it will beat the DMR everytime?
To answer the sniper question: The guy didn’t shoot him in the head because it was hard to use which shouldn’t be a factor but im not talking about that.
As for the question about the AR: The AR isn’t even a precision weapon. You still don’t get it