For some reason this isn’t a topic I’ve seen around that much but I feel it’s a thing that should be addressed. Even if we’re this late into production of Infinite.
Context: I play a lot of H5 since this whole corona lock down situation. One thing that bothers me the most about the entire multiplayer is that almost every map is filled with little nooks and crannies. In a game that (traditionally) relies on strafing during combat you don’t want to get stuck behind a ledge that’s there just for esthetics. H5 is filled with them.
I really, REALLY, hope 343i goes for clean, simple maps where movement is rated higher than the need to include a tree for…reasons.
> 2674012278771805;1:
> For some reason this isn’t a topic I’ve seen around that much but I feel it’s a thing that should be addressed. Even if we’re this late into production of Infinite.
>
> Context: I play a lot of H5 since this whole corona lock down situation. One thing that bothers me the most about the entire multiplayer is that almost every map is filled with little nooks and crannies. In a game that (traditionally) relies on strafing during combat you don’t want to get stuck behind a ledge that’s there just for esthetics. H5 is filled with them.
> I really, REALLY, hope 343i goes for clean, simple maps where movement is rated higher than the need to include a tree for…reasons.
>
> I can’t imagine being the only one!
I hate those little railings on plaza. I’m a super soldier who apparently can’t just walk over this tiny railing (more like an aesthetic trim) that isn’t even as high as my ankle. I have to jump instead. WTF
I’ve been saying this since Halo 5 came out. The maps look nice but it feels like 343 put more emphasis on making the maps look pretty rather than play as well as possible. They added a lot of details to the maps that serve as nothing more than ways to make the maps more aesthetically pleasing but they negatively affect the way the maps play. For example, the bridge in the middle of Fathom has these small rails along the sides that you can’t just walk over so if you need to drop off the bridge to survive a fight, you have to jump first which could cost you your life. Another is on Coliseum on the ramps heading up to the Sniper spawn from both team spawns. There’s these weird geometric rock formations along the sides of the ramps and if you needed to walk off the ramps or hide in the corners beside the ramps, you have to jump over the rocks first which puts you in the same situation as the first example. There’s also many walls in the maps that have details that aren’t just purely visual but also have geometry as well, meaning if you wanted to bank a grenade off that wall, the grenade might get stuck or bounce in some other direction because it hit the non-flat geometry of the wall. The easy fix there would be to always make the wall flat with either an invisible wall right on top of the wall that covers up the geometry of the details on the wall or make the details in walls like pipes and stuff be purely visual and have no geometry but without looking flat, if that’s possible (I don’t know anything about game design so I’m not sure if that can be done)
Instances like these just get frustrating when they happen game after game on most or all maps so I really hope 343 puts more emphasis on the playability of the Halo Infinite maps rather than the visual quality, but of course still try to make them as visually pleasing as possible without sacrificing playability
> 2535451336993939;3:
> All the maps should be like Halo 2 and Halo 3, fun to play and nice to look at with soul. Halo 4 and Halo 5 simply lack these things.
Halo 4 has a couple gems, my favorites being the Valhalla remake and The Pit (or whatever it is called in 4). Otherwise they did feel very cluttered and too much to take in. Another thing 343 should do is bring back some classic names, or make some memorable ones because I don’t remember the names of most of 4’s maps.
> 2533274908070201;6:
> I’ve been saying this since Halo 5 came out. The maps look nice but it feels like 343 put more emphasis on making the maps look pretty rather than play as well as possible. They added a lot of details to the maps that serve as nothing more than ways to make the maps more aesthetically pleasing but they negatively affect the way the maps play. For example, the bridge in the middle of Fathom has these small rails along the sides that you can’t just walk over so if you need to drop off the bridge to survive a fight, you have to jump first which could cost you your life. Another is on Coliseum on the ramps heading up to the Sniper spawn from both team spawns. There’s these weird geometric rock formations along the sides of the ramps and if you needed to walk off the ramps or hide in the corners beside the ramps, you have to jump over the rocks first which puts you in the same situation as the first example. There’s also many walls in the maps that have details that aren’t just purely visual but also have geometry as well, meaning if you wanted to bank a grenade off that wall, the grenade might get stuck or bounce in some other direction because it hit the non-flat geometry of the wall. The easy fix there would be to always make the wall flat with either an invisible wall right on top of the wall that covers up the geometry of the details on the wall or make the details in walls like pipes and stuff be purely visual and have no geometry but without looking flat, if that’s possible (I don’t know anything about game design so I’m not sure if that can be done)
>
> Instances like these just get frustrating when they happen game after game on most or all maps so I really hope 343 puts more emphasis on the playability of the Halo Infinite maps rather than the visual quality, but of course still try to make them as visually pleasing as possible without sacrificing playability
In a Vi-doc, Joe said that before a map is pretty, it has to be fun. They do very little decorating before they play it. If it is fun, then they made it look pretty. H5 has a few good ones, but some should have been changed to be fun first. The sad thing is most maps are forged and player made, and some of those turn out to be better than developer maps. Infinite needs to have more fun developer maps!!
> 2535433024916972;8:
> > 2533274908070201;6:
> > I’ve been saying this since Halo 5 came out. The maps look nice but it feels like 343 put more emphasis on making the maps look pretty rather than play as well as possible. They added a lot of details to the maps that serve as nothing more than ways to make the maps more aesthetically pleasing but they negatively affect the way the maps play. For example, the bridge in the middle of Fathom has these small rails along the sides that you can’t just walk over so if you need to drop off the bridge to survive a fight, you have to jump first which could cost you your life. Another is on Coliseum on the ramps heading up to the Sniper spawn from both team spawns. There’s these weird geometric rock formations along the sides of the ramps and if you needed to walk off the ramps or hide in the corners beside the ramps, you have to jump over the rocks first which puts you in the same situation as the first example. There’s also many walls in the maps that have details that aren’t just purely visual but also have geometry as well, meaning if you wanted to bank a grenade off that wall, the grenade might get stuck or bounce in some other direction because it hit the non-flat geometry of the wall. The easy fix there would be to always make the wall flat with either an invisible wall right on top of the wall that covers up the geometry of the details on the wall or make the details in walls like pipes and stuff be purely visual and have no geometry but without looking flat, if that’s possible (I don’t know anything about game design so I’m not sure if that can be done)
> >
> > Instances like these just get frustrating when they happen game after game on most or all maps so I really hope 343 puts more emphasis on the playability of the Halo Infinite maps rather than the visual quality, but of course still try to make them as visually pleasing as possible without sacrificing playability
>
> In a Vi-doc, Joe said that before a map is pretty, it has to be fun. They do very little decorating before they play it. If it is fun, then they made it look pretty. H5 has a few good ones, but some should have been changed to be fun first. The sad thing is most maps are forged and player made, and some of those turn out to be better than developer maps. Infinite needs to have more fun developer maps!!
Agreed, after all, Halo is just a game, the fun is everything.
> 2535433024916972;7:
> > 2535451336993939;3:
> > All the maps should be like Halo 2 and Halo 3, fun to play and nice to look at with soul. Halo 4 and Halo 5 simply lack these things.
>
> Halo 4 has a couple gems, my favorites being the Valhalla remake and The Pit (or whatever it is called in 4). Otherwise they did feel very cluttered and too much to take in. Another thing 343 should do is bring back some classic names, or make some memorable ones because I don’t remember the names of most of 4’s maps.
I don’t mean to sound rude, but I do find it interesting that your two favorite maps in Halo 4 are remakes of maps from 3. Do you like those versions specifically? If so, why?
> 2535433024916972;7:
> > 2535451336993939;3:
> > All the maps should be like Halo 2 and Halo 3, fun to play and nice to look at with soul. Halo 4 and Halo 5 simply lack these things.
>
> Halo 4 has a couple gems, my favorites being the Valhalla remake and The Pit (or whatever it is called in 4). Otherwise they did feel very cluttered and too much to take in. Another thing 343 should do is bring back some classic names, or make some memorable ones because I don’t remember the names of most of 4’s maps.
> 2533274995694882;10:
> > 2535433024916972;7:
> > > 2535451336993939;3:
> > > All the maps should be like Halo 2 and Halo 3, fun to play and nice to look at with soul. Halo 4 and Halo 5 simply lack these things.
> >
> > Halo 4 has a couple gems, my favorites being the Valhalla remake and The Pit (or whatever it is called in 4). Otherwise they did feel very cluttered and too much to take in. Another thing 343 should do is bring back some classic names, or make some memorable ones because I don’t remember the names of most of 4’s maps.
>
> I don’t mean to sound rude, but I do find it interesting that your two favorite maps in Halo 4 are remakes of maps from 3. Do you like those versions specifically? If so, why?
Those maps are the best effort I saw 343 put into some of the maps. And bungie focused on making those maps fun. If I had to choose one specifically made by 343, I’d say Harvest. It seems like 343 mainly focused on making cool looking maps rather than making them fun first. Then again, I haven’t played 4 in a while so I don’t remember all of their maps, and most maps in 5 are player made.
> 2535451336993939;12:
> > 2535433024916972;7:
> > > 2535451336993939;3:
> > > All the maps should be like Halo 2 and Halo 3, fun to play and nice to look at with soul. Halo 4 and Halo 5 simply lack these things.
> >
> > Halo 4 has a couple gems, my favorites being the Valhalla remake and The Pit (or whatever it is called in 4). Otherwise they did feel very cluttered and too much to take in. Another thing 343 should do is bring back some classic names, or make some memorable ones because I don’t remember the names of most of 4’s maps.
>
> Sooo Halo 3 maps?
Yep. Other than those the only OG 4 one I can think of that was mostly fun in Harvest.
Strongly agree. H5 maps are optimized for 4-person fire teams with pro comms. Having a standard shootout feels impossible because there are 50 different directions for someone to run away (or fall, get stuck, etc.), and I’m not even factoring in Spartan Abilities. And yes, a horrible side effect of games getting better looking is they become so visually busy.
But then you play H5 Mythic Arena and it instantly transports you back to the H2 and H3 days. The maps are clean, simple and still manage to nail the Halo feel and style while mostly consisting of flat surfaces.
I really hope Mythic Arena was a kind of test run for Infinite MP.
I strongly agree with the H2/H3 comments. Those maps had a personality (some interactivity for instance) and were visually interesting but they didn’t interfere with gameplay as much as we have now in H5. I feel that is the way to go for Infinite. The odd thing is that so many Forge maps actually do play better than the ‘official’ maps. Most of them just don’t look that good. And this is a bit of a thing if you ask me: Forge has been a blessing and a curse for Halo. It really gives us more power as a community (H5’s Forge maps being better than the majority of the real maps is proof). But it also makes map design lazy for a dev. Like, why bother with expensive production of new maps if people will just do it for us? with the obvious downside being that many Forge maps look…like Forge maps. Its a specific esthetic that doesn’t really sell the game’s graphical powers.
Ideally maps should have interesting layouts and themes…with clean paths, walls and no pieces to get stuck in.
> 2674012278771805;17:
> Glad to see some agreement on this!
>
> I strongly agree with the H2/H3 comments. Those maps had a personality (some interactivity for instance) and were visually interesting but they didn’t interfere with gameplay as much as we have now in H5. I feel that is the way to go for Infinite. The odd thing is that so many Forge maps actually do play better than the ‘official’ maps. Most of them just don’t look that good. And this is a bit of a thing if you ask me: Forge has been a blessing and a curse for Halo. It really gives us more power as a community (H5’s Forge maps being better than the majority of the real maps is proof). But it also makes map design lazy for a dev. Like, why bother with expensive production of new maps if people will just do it for us? with the obvious downside being that many Forge maps look…like Forge maps. Its a specific esthetic that doesn’t really sell the game’s graphical powers.
>
> Ideally maps should have interesting layouts and themes…with clean paths, walls and no pieces to get stuck in.
I actually really dig the look of the forge maps in Mythic Arena, but it’s definitely fueled by nostalgia. I like how the grays and browns make it easy to see your red or blue opponents.
I’ve had this idea for years now that I know will never happen, but I think would be awesome. Basically, all ranked maps would be made with the Breakout template, and include tiered seating on the perimeter, which is filled with spectators (Infinity crew?). The Breakout ranked maps can have all the same geometry and layout of the “real” maps (which would still have the “real” look for unranked play), but it would really sell the “Arena” aspect. Crowd sounds would be included (and can be turned off by the player), and red or blue would always be the default home team, so the crowd might boo/jeer the away team at first, but special plays (multikills, snapshots, assassinations, etc.) could sway them as the match progresses. 343 used to talk about immersion a lot, and I think that would heighten the immersive aspect of battling it out in an actual arena.
But, again, I doubt anything like that will ever happen. It would be a ton of work for the MP team on top of what they already do.
I’d rather they find a mix. Simple maps are ok but I miss maps like Turf from Halo 2 or Exile from Halo 4. Though based on how bad H5 was…I suspect some of the issues won’t be a problem if Infinite get’s rid of certain annoying abilities since abilities can mess up the way a map flows.
> 2533274829873463;19:
> I’d rather they find a mix. Simple maps are ok but I miss maps like Turf from Halo 2 or Exile from Halo 4. Though based on how bad H5 was…I suspect some of the issues won’t be a problem if Infinite get’s rid of certain annoying abilities since abilities can mess up the way a map flows.
Turf is an example of what I actually would want to have. Its layout it simple, it is interesting to look at (because if feels like something actually happened there) and while there are some places to get stuck (store fronts on street level and perhaps the big swinging doors to the garage) you normally won’t accidentally walk into a ‘trap’ so to speak.
Simple maps don’t need to exclude good looking maps. Just no more odd angles like H5’s Coliseum or Fathom with just too many things going on.