KBM input is being shafted for seemingly, no reason?

Games Halo Infinite
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So you both have identified that a casual player who plays halo infinite once in a blue moon on Xbox struggle with skill and aiming.

Kinda proves the validity of why controller has aim assist since people like me make up a vast majority of the player base.

I mean skill bashing and stat bashing once again proves to me that KBM players are elititist. I can deal with the fact I suck and accept it it’s fine I don’t care I’m not e-sports lol

But alienating a vast majority of the player base just to please a small minority of the player base is just foolish……

What I can agree with is I’m glad this game is dying, hands down the worst halo title given to us.

This game is so broken I can’t stand to play it more than like 4-5 rounds? So yeah I’m going to lack skill and game sense on a game I rarely play

I’ll stick to mcc

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Why should 343 cater to you and people like you when you’ll always struggle regardless of how much aim assist the game gives players?

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look up my highest csr. I was onyx at one point on the crossplay playlist. So u cant really attempt to lecture me about it especially when i was a console player too. If u think bringing in past experiences with controller and just stating the facts about controller players lacking game sense is making u think most mnk are elitists is incorrect. Next thing u say that we are trying to alienate the majority of the playerbase when only the opposite is true. Controller players just cancel the information and experiences that mnk experience. The only people that are alienating r the controller players. Dont be accusing people when u dont know much about them, especially at a whole community. If u wanna see my aim i suggest u watch a vid. https://streamable.com/az3nzk

That link is my raw unassisted aim and yet i cannot keep up against players of the same skill level. This says a lot about the game. Too much aim assist and too casual. U can sugar coat it all u want but that is one of the reasons why the mnk community left the game. Most of us at the higher level have trained our aim for years only to get outgunned by an algorithm that does its job too well. Dont go around saying most mnk players lack the aiming skill when u havent even tried the input and grinded, and this is coming from someone who has had more experience on controller.

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if that is the case why just not separate the inputs? I have suggested this in previous replies. But why should they cater to pc mnk? The sole reason is that its the largest player base on any platform. Everyone has a pc running windows 11. If halo caters to this group then it would place itself in the largest community ever. Xbox is nothing compared to the pc population. That is why halo falls behind in modern times. Nothing against halo tho but there is a reason why valorant and csgo have more than 750000 players daily. Whereas halo barely has 50-100k. If that isnt obvious to the community then idk what u r thinking because targeting the pc market is the best way to make the game more popular than it ever was or is right now.

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363

I agree with this. I hate it when they combine both inputs in pvp games. It’s never a good idea and should always be separated to avoid needless cost of balancing fixes and changes. Unless it’s pve, then it would be alright, but for something to be fair, everyone should have the exact same input devices. This should go across not only ranked but casual matches as well for pure enjoyment and fairness. I’ve only played kb/m. I plugged in a controller for a few games and did as well if not better than my usual fighting. For someone who just plugged in a controller is did as well, this is a big problem…

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The way I’ve always seen it, and I see it in MCC as well, where mouse aim isn’t nearly as janky as Infinite (mind you neither is controller aim) is that Halo is both a game where the first shot doesn’t win a gunfight, AND where movement isn’t so crazy you need to keep up.

KBM accels at games where shooting first is the primary contributor to victory. Think very short killtime games, Battlefield, CoD, CS etc. That’s because the amount of time it takes to snap your aim onto an enemy is much shorter, especially for enemies that you aren’t already facing.

KBM also has a very clear advantage in extremely mobile shooters, classics like Unreal and Quake, or modern games like Destiny come to mind here. Because even with aim assist in place it’s extremely easy to lose track of players in these games if your reticle speed isn’t essentially uncapped.

Halo is different from these games. It’s a game with both slower, more predictable movement AND where the first shot in a gunfight is generally less valuable than what happens after. This gives a controller with a comfortable aim assist mechanic plenty of room to both compete with and surpass M&K. Infinite in particular went to great lengths to nerf controller compared to the rest of the franchise, by making the aim assist significantly less comfortable, but it is still something players could get used to with practice. And adding some bullet magnetism to M&K could result in the input becoming so easy to use that it practically removes the game’s skill gap.

It’s kind of a -Yoink!- of they do, -Yoink!- if they don’t situation. Removing aim assist entirely, or further making it uncomfortable on controller is plain not an option. I think most controller players would advocate for it to be restored to the standards of the franchise. I.E. making it feel like MCC. And at the very least, certain weapon mechanics should be tweaked so they feel rewarding for M&K players. BR should have it’s spread completely removed, and Sniper should have both it’s unscoped negative AA and spread removed for example. The Sidekick could also stand to have it’s rate of fire slowed to match the current “paced shot” RoF (the RoF it has when you wait for the reticle to unbloom between shots) it could then stand to lose a shot from it’s ttk, becoming a 6 shot kill instead of a 7, just to keep it’s optimal TTK as close to what it is now as possible. The bloom effect can stay, but it would act like a rate of fire timer instead of an actual accuracy mechanic. They should do this to the Sniper as well, like it was in 4 and 5.

Changes like this would go a long way towards making weapons feel equally viable on both inputs, making controller play feel more natural and M&K play feel more rewarding WITHOUT damaging the skill gap of the game.

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this is just straight up wrong lmao. If you say this was the case then why is apex so well tuned for controller and mnk? Modern halo is definitely not slow and the only thing that is keeping halo at the bottom on twitch viewership and play is because its aim assist is out of this world high. I have tried controller on apex and it is nowhere near this bad on halo infinite. This game was made for people who lack raw mechanical skill and it shows.

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366

aiming of KBM and Controller its a WHOLE ENTIRE ARM on a mouse vs a THUMB on a joystick

I don’t really understand why people seem to bring this up. People don’t use their entire arm to aim, majority of the players use their wrists and wrists only. The arms are too slow and troublesome to move for aiming purposes in a game like halo. Sure, there are arm aimers but it doesn’t give them any advantage. It is a matter of preference. The argument is a moot one since most people stick to wrist aiming. Manual aiming doesn’t work the way you think it works, having more limbs doesn’t necessarily equate to better control.

KBM has wrist aimers, controllers have thumb + aim assist and lots of it. I don’t really see why people cry about being able to aim with the “arm”. You should try it before screeching all over the post. It is not as easy as people make it out to be. You have to control and fine-tune your movements and overshooting and undershooting is a major problem that people who get into mouse aiming have to deal with and correct via practice. It’s not as if you have to just aim in the general direction of the enemy like consoles and simply have your aim stick to the target and not have to worry about micro-corrections like controller users.

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KBM is there if you want to use it. I do not think MS or 343i ever stated that KBM would be the defacto experience or that KBM=Controller in fairness testing. Destiny 2 went through this, Diablo 3 Reaper Of Souls went through this, heck Halo MCC went through this. KBM players are unlikely to create change in this space. Some games are made for controller.

Estimate KBM players are <20% of Steam ~5k players i.e. ~1000 KBM players . The rest of us are on PC using a controller with great PC benefits in the cross platform experience. We are still a minority to the Xbox S/X player volume who all enjoy controller.

I’m pretty good at Quake3Arena, Doom 2016 / Eternal, and BF3 with MKB. I don’t go on their boards demanding change because I’d like controllers to be better. Neither would Valve entertain the idea of CS:GO having AA on controller. CS:GO is KBM or GTFO.

I strongly recommend joining the controller club. It is not so bad! Otherwise your only option is to grit your teeth as KBM or find another game to enjoy that is KBM-centric.

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No one says that they want it to be the “de-facto experience,” whatever that means.

They had systems in place in testing that would make controllers and KBM on an equal playing field, or at least level them. They removed them before launch.

This is mostly true of fighting games, and Souls-likes due to the design of the controller being the design choice in mind relative to mouse and keyboard. This does not mean that they’re unusable, just difficult to use.

FPS games don’t have that. It requires more effort, but FPS games can and do play well on PC. What matters, is if intentional effort is taken to make it fun to play on PC. If Infinite was just put on PC so they could get more microtransactions, I’d rather they never release it at all.

All of the games you listed (assuming Battlefield 3 is BF3) are games that are on console bar Quake 3, and with massive success on that platform. I know for a fact that players rebound their button inputs on controller to make Eternal more fun to play.

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Courtesy of the “missed the point” badge I went to re-read the OP and I’m not seeing what I’m missing.

I have tried to express that there is no known perfect balance between KBM and controller. OP expressed ideas including adjustments to the way BR ballistics work, acknowledging it would apply to the controller as well as KBM; I quote:

The above solution is not logical to the argument raised. Increasing the accuracy by reducing the random spread of BR’s 3x bullets per trigger also improves the overall accuracy of controller players. **Implement this and you’ve just raised the skill of all the controller players you were trying balance. This is like remastering Halo 2: Classic and turning it into Halo 2: Anniversary - First Shooter Wins.

I had to read above a few times to understand it , but I think you mean the change to BR should only occur for KBM inputs? If so, this would be a first in FPS culture to my knowledge; providing weapon mechanic changes explicitly to certain peripherals. If this is what OP meant, it is interesting but would also disrupt player expectations from known game mechanics; if it is strong enough to create a KBM improvement, it is strong enough to feel on the receiving end.

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Just making my voice heard and commenting this is why we all stopped playing. It’s obnoxious getting beamed by the game and not the player. It turns the game into something beyond sweaty even for talented PC players.

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