Karen Traviss and 343i, Thank You!

Community Halo Universe
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After trying to plea my point against many a jaded-fan, I must start my own thread to THANK Karen Traviss and 343i for an excellent series. Fans are eager to forget that the character traits flushed out by Traviss were set in motion by Nylund in Ghosts of Onyx and that it is the natural evolution of Humanity’s actions with post-war Elite relations. The series has flushed out characters in an excellent light, albeit I am not the biggest fan of the interactions Halsey had with Adj and Mendez/The S-IIIs, for which I think these actions are a little out of character, considering that Halsey is beginning to own up to her humane side at the end of Onyx/start of Glasslands, but otherwise I find all the development natural and genius.

Fans forget to remember that at the end of Nylund’s Ghosts of Onyx, Halsey knowingly commits treason by stealing Kelly away. Yes, she did need medical attention, but the true intention was to take and hide any and all Spartan-IIs she could find in an attempt to appease her newly-found motherly humane side. She fully intended to keep Kelly away from any and all active warfare indefinitely. She states countless times that she has gotten away with just about everything and sites her wit and Civvie status as being her sword and shield against any action taken against her previously. This aside, she knows if ever brought back to the UEG she would likely spend life in prison or killed for her actions.

Other fan outrages include Big Maggie’s hypocritical actions and thoughts against Halsey. I will refer you here for my analysis on this, post number 4 or so. Essentially, Maggie admits her involvement in the program, but despises the fact that she okayed the program in the beginning. She was unaware of some of the dirtier aspects of the program when it was green-lighted, and thus wishes to fully expose the truth. Obviously Halsey will never face a court because she will continue to be presumed dead, but even so, Maggie states her intention to fully expose the program and account for her involvement. Again, I feel this is due to her being close to the end of her life and desiring to square herself with her actions, regardless of the consequences.

And my biggest thanks is to the development of 'Jul and the Elites. This was absolute genius taking an informed non-believing Elite and forcing him into cohorts with The Abiding Truth, and then using this knowledge to escape Trevelyan. Beyond that to have him take this knowledge and use it to sway the Elites on Hesduros to start a new holy war, absolutely genius. I was actively smiling throughout the last chapter as 'Jul appeases to Panom’s blind faith to become a new leader to an Elite threat.

Bravo. Thank you KT and thank you 343i for actively incorporating 2 very different 3-book series’ into the new Halo trilogy, and doing it so well. Fans are angry because they do not want Halsey to be portrayed in a bad light, just like the Spartan-IIs. If you are one of them, please consider the facts all the way back at the start of the Spartan-II Program when Keyes did not like what Halsey was doing and was thus taken out of the equation. Halsey has always had these traits from the get go. KT did not drastically change characteristics of Halsey, just flushed them out. I will admit she adapted Mendez into a different light, but this is simply the evolution of one’s thoughts, just like Keyes began to show.

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I’m curious though, what would happen to Earth if it weren’t for Halsey’s ideas?

I am thankful to KT though. For exploring Parangosky, and for Parangosky’s character. I quite like Parangosky’s character. :wink:

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I think my biggest issue with Glasslands is how Halsey suddenly goes from the calm assertive person that she was in previous installments to a bumbling twelve-year old girl who cries every time Mendez insults her, which is also a bit strange.

I also don’t really care for Kilo-Five, they just feel like a group of Mary Sues who probably would be more at home in a fanfic than an actual canonical entry. I really hate how everyone is quick to hate on Halsey, yet they don’t even think to blame ONI for it. If someone threw a baseball at your head, are you upset at the baseball or the person who threw it?

I was also under the impression that Halsey didn’t create the SPARTAN-II Program (some have said it was the Assembly, but I’m not too sure), she was just selected to oversee it.

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The S-II program is her lovechild. Though the absolute original idea was not hers, she completely developed and transformed it. I do put blame on ONI as well, however when the project was green-lighted many aspects of the program were not solidified yet.

Though I cannot confirm or dispute this claim with facts, I highly doubt the program was green-lighted with the intent to kidnap the children. We all know that the flash-cloning was not in the pitch at all and that Paragnosky was appalled about that. The complete details of the augmentation process was also not fully developed until the program was well underway.

Even if Big Maggie was simply trying to place blame, Halsey realistically still is ringmaster of the circus, even if ONI owns the circus.

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Traviss has made the biggest contribution to fleshing out Sangheili culture since Buckell’s Halo: The Cole Protocol. For that, I thank her.

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> I think my biggest issue with Glasslands is how Halsey suddenly goes from the calm assertive person that she was in previous installments to a bumbling twelve-year old girl who cries every time Mendez insults her, which is also a bit strange.

I “believe” Halsey remains herself - calm, assertive, defiant, etc - outside of the Kilo Five trilogy.

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> The S-II program is her lovechild. Though the absolute original idea was not hers, she completely developed and transformed it. I do put blame on ONI as well, however when the project was green-lighted many aspects of the program were not solidified yet.
>
> Though I cannot confirm or dispute this claim with facts, I highly doubt the program was green-lighted with the intent to kidnap the children. We all know that the flash-cloning was not in the pitch at all and that Paragnosky was appalled about that. The complete details of the augmentation process was also not fully developed until the program was well underway.
>
> Even if Big Maggie was simply trying to place blame, Halsey realistically still is ringmaster of the circus, even if ONI owns the circus.

I’m not so sure about that. ONI obviously has no problem with the Spartan-III Program, so I don’t see why they would be against kidnapping a handful of children. Besides, for the augmentations to be at their full potential, the subjects needed to be adolescent youths.

Besides, ONI wanted to completely indoctrinate the children, but Halsey refused and wanted them to have free will. It seems to me that the Spartan-II program would’ve been a whole lot worse if ONI put someone like Ackerson at the head of the project.

Also, Kurt oversaw the S-III project, yet I have yet to see a single person call Kurt a monster. We all blame ONI and Ackerson for that.

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> I’m not so sure about that. ONI obviously has no problem with the Spartan-III Program, so I don’t see why they would be against kidnapping a handful of children. Besides, for the augmentations to be at their full potential, the subjects needed to be adolescent youths.
>
> Besides, ONI wanted to completely indoctrinate the children, but Halsey refused and wanted them to have free will. It seems to me that the Spartan-II program would’ve been a whole lot worse if ONI put someone like Ackerson at the head of the project.
>
> Also, Kurt oversaw the S-III project, yet I have yet to see a single person call Kurt a monster. We all blame ONI and Ackerson for that.

Good point. And though Kurt is one of my favorites in the Haloverse, he did send kids on suicide missions to die by the hundreds. Once one batch of SIIIs were killed off, it was time to recruit another few hundred or so to send to their death. That NEVER happened nor was it ever the intention of the SII project.

Halsey on the other hand repeatedly pulls strings and bypasses regulations to make sure her Spartans have the best chance for survival. She’s frequently characterized as going to great lengths to protect them. She’s really not the psychopathic monster Traviss writes her out as.

9

> After trying to plea my point against many a jaded-fan, I must start my own thread to THANK Karen Traviss and 343i for an excellent series. Fans are eager to forget that the character traits flushed out by Traviss were set in motion by Nylund in Ghosts of Onyx and that it is the natural evolution of Humanity’s actions with post-war Elite relations. The series has flushed out characters in an excellent light, albeit I am not the biggest fan of the interactions Halsey had with Adj and Mendez/The S-IIIs, for which I think these actions are a little out of character, considering that Halsey is beginning to own up to her humane side at the end of Onyx/start of Glasslands, but otherwise I find all the development natural and genius.
>
> Fans forget to remember that at the end of Nylund’s Ghosts of Onyx, Halsey knowingly commits treason by stealing Kelly away. Yes, she did need medical attention, but the true intention was to take and hide any and all Spartan-IIs she could find in an attempt to appease her newly-found motherly humane side. She fully intended to keep Kelly away from any and all active warfare indefinitely. She states countless times that she has gotten away with just about everything and sites her wit and Civvie status as being her sword and shield against any action taken against her previously. This aside, she knows if ever brought back to the UEG she would likely spend life in prison or killed for her actions.
>
> Other fan outrages include Big Maggie’s hypocritical actions and thoughts against Halsey. I will refer you here for my analysis on this, post number 4 or so. Essentially, Maggie admits her involvement in the program, but despises the fact that she okayed the program in the beginning. She was unaware of some of the dirtier aspects of the program when it was green-lighted, and thus wishes to fully expose the truth. Obviously Halsey will never face a court because she will continue to be presumed dead, but even so, Maggie states her intention to fully expose the program and account for her involvement. Again, I feel this is due to her being close to the end of her life and desiring to square herself with her actions, regardless of the consequences.
>
> And my biggest thanks is to the development of 'Jul and the Elites. This was absolute genius taking an informed non-believing Elite and forcing him into cohorts with The Abiding Truth, and then using this knowledge to escape Trevelyan. Beyond that to have him take this knowledge and use it to sway the Elites on Hesduros to start a new holy war, absolutely genius. I was actively smiling throughout the last chapter as ‘Jul appeases to Panom’s blind faith to become a new leader to an Elite threat.
>
> Bravo. Thank you KT and thank you 343i for actively incorporating 2 very different 3-book series’ into the new Halo trilogy, and doing it so well. Fans are angry because they do not want Halsey to be portrayed in a bad light, just like the Spartan-IIs. If you are one of them, please consider the facts all the way back at the start of the Spartan-II Program when Keyes did not like what Halsey was doing and was thus taken out of the equation. Halsey has always had these traits from the get go. KT did not drastically change characteristics of Halsey, just flushed them out. I will admit she adapted Mendez into a different light, but this is simply the evolution of one’s thoughts, just like Keyes began to show.

There is a difference between the “evolution” of a character than a character doing a complete 180 and doing/saying things that contradicts there character.

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> > I’m not so sure about that. ONI obviously has no problem with the Spartan-III Program, so I don’t see why they would be against kidnapping a handful of children. Besides, for the augmentations to be at their full potential, the subjects needed to be adolescent youths.
> >
> > Besides, ONI wanted to completely indoctrinate the children, but Halsey refused and wanted them to have free will. It seems to me that the Spartan-II program would’ve been a whole lot worse if ONI put someone like Ackerson at the head of the project.
> >
> > Also, Kurt oversaw the S-III project, yet I have yet to see a single person call Kurt a monster. We all blame ONI and Ackerson for that.
>
> Good point. And though Kurt is one of my favorites in the Haloverse, he did send kids on suicide missions to die by the hundreds. Once one batch of SIIIs were killed off, it was time to recruit another few hundred or so to send to their death. That NEVER happened nor was it ever the intention of the SII project.
>
> Halsey on the other hand repeatedly pulls strings and bypasses regulations to make sure her Spartans have the best chance for survival. She’s frequently characterized as going to great lengths to protect them. She’s really not the psychopathic monster Traviss writes her out as.

I’m sure that while Kurt was training Alpha Company, he had no idea of the Program’s true intentions, or even during Beta’s, but he MUST’VE caught on after TORPEDO.

Kurt also went to great lengths to try and give his Spartans the best chance for survival. When he saw that Alpha Company had broke rank during PROMETHEUS, Kurt greatly stressed teamwork in Beta’s training, and when that wasn’t enough, he gave Gamma illegal augmentations that would make them more aggressive and more tolerant of pain.

Point is, like Kurt, Halsey obviously cared for her Spartans greatly, yet Karen Traviss would have you believe that Halsey thought of the Spartans as nothing but experiments (which they weren’t,).

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what I don’t like about her in Thursday War, she keeps mentioning that the Engineers the Humans have are better than the Covvy because they are more direct to the Forerunners…

The Covvy took Engineers out of Dyson Sphere’s just like we’re doing at the moment years and years ago… I don’t see the difference she’s trying to make. Seems like a poor read on the cannon before writing the book.

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> what I don’t like about her in Thursday War, she keeps mentioning that the Engineers the Humans have are better than the Covvy because they are more direct to the Forerunners…
>
> The Covvy took Engineers out of Dyson Sphere’s just like we’re doing at the moment years and years ago… I don’t see the difference she’s trying to make. <mark>Seems like a poor read on the cannon before writing the book</mark>.

She read some of the canon?! O_O

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> Traviss has made the biggest contribution to fleshing out Sangheili culture since Buckell’s Halo: The Cole Protocol. For that, I thank her.

If not anything else, this at least.

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KT is a great writer.I am so glad i didn’t listen to the haters her books always keep me on the edge of my seat.

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> KT is a great writer.I am so glad i didn’t listen to the haters her books always keep me on the edge of my seat.

That is good, you think for yourself. I didn’t care for her books, but never suggested that nobody read them for themselves. But really, referring to us as “haters” is a bit rude. I don’t demonize people who liked her books.

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I really liked the trilogy as well.

But I didn’t like how she degrades some of the characters like Halsey. From being a genius able to outsmart Cortona to someone who can’t even help BB with a broken fragment… Which considering Halsey’s rep… Would have BB done in about an hour.

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> Traviss has made the biggest contribution to fleshing out Sangheili culture since Buckell’s Halo: The Cole Protocol. For that, I thank her.

Really? Because I thought she squandered a great chance to do so.

What do their buildings look like? What does their music sound like? Do they have music? Their art, what about that? KT took us to several keeps and holy sites, these would have been prime chances to talk about such things. What about the childhood of an average Elite? Reflecting on Raia’s childhood might have been a great chance to explain why she’s so intent on bringing Jul back to the keep. It would have been welcome, because as is, it seems pretty contrived. What does Irukan look like? What else can she tell us about the long-coated Colo? Why, as a historically sea-faring race, does the Elite race rely on these two staples?

What was the rationale of the Elites keeping the Jiralnahae around? That seems less likely than ONI bringing in some Sangheili operatives. The entire Brute race has a long, deep-seated rivalry with the Elites. They displaced them from the Covenant and committed a brutal interplanetary genocide. No, she glosses over that, and then uses them as the ‘fall guys’ in a bombing. As if nobody would be keeping an eye on the Brutes.

She gave us a few sparse concepts. The Arum. Irukan. Colo. A puzzle, a crop, and livestock does not a culture make. But her fleshing out of their culture was overwhelmed by her general portrayal of them as stone-aged barbarians. Every single concept she had was used to destroy their existence as a powerful, prideful race.

I don’t know whether or not KT really researched previous sources (I suspect absence of Lekgolo is due to not being bothered to read up on them). It really doesn’t seem like she got a good grasp on what these races were before writing about them.

The Arum was used to show how much of a genius Evan Phillips was.
Irukan and colo were just plot devices to give ONI even more power over the Sangheili.

Just more bricks in the wall keeping me from enjoying this trilogy. You’re entitled to your opinion, OP, and I’m glad we got something, but it could have been done better.

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I agree with the appreciation to Traviss and 343. ALthough the Thursday War is still on my to read list, the direction they have taken with post-war politics and continued fighting is a testament to how seriously the Halo universe as a whole is taken. As an an American, this country has a tendency to put itself on a pedestal but we commonly have to admit to agregious errors in conduct, both on a battlefield and politically.

In regards to a previous statement on Kilo-5, I thought they may have been going (or setting up for) and ODST-style game installment somewhere down the line.

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> I’m curious though, what would happen to Earth if it weren’t for Halsey’s ideas?
>
> I am thankful to KT though. For exploring Parangosky, and for Parangosky’s character. I quite like Parangosky’s character. :wink:

Without the Spartan program it is entirely possible that humanity would have been eradicated and the Covenant may Have succeeded in firing a Halo.

While they led to our survival the Spartan program is unethical and can be classified as a war crime for using children.

I understand why it was neccesary but I also understand how horrendous the conditions were and the program was an act of desparation to subdue the Insurrection. And just because the existence of the program saved humanity doesn’t make anything they did toachieve it ok. The only non controversial things related to the program was Mjolnir, the preceding Orion project and the Spartan-IV project

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> > Traviss has made the biggest contribution to fleshing out Sangheili culture since Buckell’s Halo: The Cole Protocol. For that, I thank her.
>
> Really? Because I thought she squandered a great chance to do so.
>
> What do their buildings look like? What does their music sound like? Do they have music? Their art, what about that? KT took us to several keeps and holy sites, these would have been prime chances to talk about such things. What about the childhood of an average Elite? Reflecting on Raia’s childhood might have been a great chance to explain why she’s so intent on bringing Jul back to the keep. It would have been welcome, because as is, it seems pretty contrived. What does Irukan look like? What else can she tell us about the long-coated Colo? Why, as a historically sea-faring race, does the Elite race rely on these two staples?
>
> What was the rationale of the Elites keeping the Jiralnahae around? That seems less likely than ONI bringing in some Sangheili operatives. The entire Brute race has a long, deep-seated rivalry with the Elites. They displaced them from the Covenant and committed a brutal interplanetary genocide. No, she glosses over that, and then uses them as the ‘fall guys’ in a bombing. As if nobody would be keeping an eye on the Brutes.
>
> She gave us a few sparse concepts. The Arum. Irukan. Colo. A puzzle, a crop, and livestock does not a culture make. But her fleshing out of their culture was overwhelmed by her general portrayal of them as stone-aged barbarians. Every single concept she had was used to destroy their existence as a powerful, prideful race.
>
> I don’t know whether or not KT really researched previous sources (I suspect absence of Lekgolo is due to not being bothered to read up on them). It really doesn’t seem like she got a good grasp on what these races were before writing about them.
>
> The Arum was used to show how much of a genius Evan Phillips was.
> Irukan and colo were just plot devices to give ONI even more power over the Sangheili.
>
> Just more bricks in the wall keeping me from enjoying this trilogy. You’re entitled to your opinion, OP, and I’m glad we got something, but it could have been done better.

Agreed 100%. The only thing it elaborated on with respect to the Sangheili, that actually goes anywhere, is their faltering faith in the Forerunners, and how much they ALL just HATE Humans for such contrived reasons.

As far as I can tell these novels aren’t really telling a story and creating a world to flesh out the Halo Universe. They merely exist to get everything back to the status quo of Humans Versus the Covenant. There is nothing else to these novels of any otherwise notable worth because practically all exposition and expansion on the Sangheili is how they cannot coexist with Humans.

In other words, I need to use one of these in order to even see this “new” (And I use such a word extremely loosely) setting.