Valhalla is my favourite Halo 3 map, so the fact they’re bringing it back is awesome.
From what I played, the only problem is the Overpoweredness of the mech, but that gets balanced out by the fact that both teams have one, AND that the splazer is there.
> The entire cross map sight lines are terrible for big maps especially with a 3 shot pistol/sniper.
> Clearly mike you also haven’t tried blood gulch with DMR spawns it was a mess.
> Even if he didn’t lan the game he can still make a valid argument man.
Hemm is NOTHING like blood gulch. A good map is like a great house of cards construction. misplace something, even small, and it falls apart.
The sight lines and hill coverage provided in Hemm is NOTHING like the original Blood gulch. I played Blood gulch extensively on xbox connect and in many lan parties. Hell I played one 2 months ago. The map was perfect. Hemm is simply too stretched out and had too much cover making the classic BG cross field foot charges all but impossible. Heck bungie even flipped the wall geometry entirely just for lols.
> > The entire cross map sight lines are terrible for big maps especially with a 3 shot pistol/sniper.
> > Clearly mike you also haven’t tried blood gulch with DMR spawns it was a mess.
> > Even if he didn’t lan the game he can still make a valid argument man.
>
> Hemm is NOTHING like blood gulch. A good map is like a great house of cards construction. misplace something, even small, and it falls apart.
>
> The sight lines and hill coverage provided in Hemm is NOTHING like the original Blood gulch. I played Blood gulch extensively on xbox connect and in many lan parties. Hell I played one 2 months ago. The map was perfect. Hemm is simply too stretched out and had too much cover making the classic BG cross field foot charges all but impossible. Heck bungie even flipped the wall geometry entirely just for lols.
That’s because Hemorrhage’s geometry is actually Coagulation’s.
> The map [Blood Gulch] was perfect.
Again: No.
The map design just does not work with a precision weapon that can cross map with near 100% accuracy and 100% effectiveness.
> > > there were no problems with Blood gulch
> >
> > This I agree with
>
> 
>
> Completely open map that’s little more than <mark>a flat featureless plain</mark> + hitscan pin point accurate precision weapons = Bad.
>
> At least Valhalla is spurning more foot traffic with the giant LoS blocking hill in the middle and gives some clutter on the Pelican side to hide/recharge shields in.
shows you never really played the map. There was plenty of cover on BG via the rolling hills which blocked many sight lines. Stop spouting the inexperienced nonsense.
Valhalla was nothing more than a game of “capture the hill and get laser then run vehicles” It was the same thing every time. Blood gulch had NO main capture points, with the closest thing being its hill but that was countered by its proximity to blue base with its front entrance hill for cover, and its rear being covered by keyhole which spawned 4 stickies, and its front by blue teleporter which had plenty of cover to grab camo or ovi.
Like I said bro. You dont know anything about the map. So stop all the blind hate.
> shows you never really played the map. There was plenty of cover on BG via the rolling hills which blocked many sight lines. Stop spouting the inexperienced nonsense.
Provided if the person was on the same elevation as you? Sure.
Once they got a height advantage you have no where to go to get away from their bullets.
> Valhalla was nothing more than a game of “capture the hill and get laser then run vehicles” It was the same thing every time.
Which is my problem with the map.
> Like I said bro. You dont know anything about the map.
I’m not your bro, pal.
And I’m inclined to think that a map designed for a game without pin point precise weapons wouldn’t fare will in a game with pin point precise weapons.
Lans are usually with friends. And playing with a bunch of friends negates mostly all the problems, because when playing with friends, you’re playing for fun, you’re having a blast, not caring about all the balance of the game.
When you play with strangers (not in the same room) you’re more likely to notice the flaws of the game/map, especially when you can play the map X amount of times everyday. Where as lans are rare. You do it on a weekend, you play a couple games on that map, then play a different map, perhaps just -Yoink- around with friends (again, having fun).
Halo CE is not comparable in Matchmaking to any other Halo game, because there was no match making. The reason Halo CE is praised so high is because nostalgia. I gaurantee if Halo CE had matchmaking it would be a crappy experience.
> Like I said bro. You dont know anything about the map. So stop all the blind hate.
Methew isn’t blindly hating the map. He is backing up his points with evidence. Now you can disagree with him, but you are not allowed to try and make him stop posting.
One of the many reasons why (in my opinion) the laser should not exist -it just ruins people’s fun. Just bring back lock on from Halo2 then at least vehicles like the tank, ghost and warthog have a chance to strafe death. Besides the Halo sandbox is looking a bit cluttered anyway.
the laser wont be as effective anymore now that there are 2 Mantis…es on the map.
the mantis takes 2 splaser shots to kill. so if the pilot of it is any good he can kick the splaser carriers butt to the moon pretty fast
Valhalla was one of my favourite maps so I’m glad it’s coming back.
Although would just like to point out, I’ve called EVERY forge map I’ve done since Halo 3 Ragnorok, glad it’s getting some official use now.
> the laser wont be as effective anymore now that there are 2 Mantis…es on the map.
It’s Mantises.
> the mantis takes 2 splaser shots to kill. so if the pilot of it is any good he can kick the splaser carriers butt to the moon pretty fast
Provided that the SpLaser stays out in the open like a dum-dum.
First shot is pretty much free provided you aren’t standing right where he’s looking since the targeting laser appears to still be woefully inadequate. Now that Mantis is in a weakened state and can be put down with the second Mantis or distracted by teamates for the follow up kill shot.
> > Valhalla as a spiritual sucessor to Blood Gulch fixed one of the biggest glaring problems with Blood Gulch.
> >
> > The problem is that Valhalla wasn’t without it’s own set of problems and it seems 343 is just repeating the mistakes Valhalla made.
> >
> > The biggest one being SpLaser control. If the SpLaser ends up being like how it was in H3, it’s going to lead to the same problems where the team that get’s the opening push pretty much seals the game and forces the other team to play out their loss.
> >
> > The other is that the side opposite of the Pelican is a complete no man’s land due to a lack of cover.
>
> there were no problems with Blood gulch
>
>
> all valhalla was, was a game of get the laser. Blood gulch was balance incarnate. If you didnt lan CE then you dont have any idea what you are talking about and halo PC doesnt count
>
> Also I played plenty of 40 high squad battle games on valhalla. Any team worth anything kept a guy or 2 near turret to prevent the neemy team from firing on their hold on the lase hill. It was far from a no mans land
Halo Mac counts though 
Death Island, fuel rod, rocket hogs…ah loved those times 
I don’t really think securing the Splazer wins you the match. Just stay out of vehicles until you get it back? If one team is better/smarter than the other, they’re still going to win whether they have the splazer or not.
> > the laser wont be as effective anymore now that there are 2 Mantis…es on the map.
>
> It’s Mantises.
>
>
>
> > the mantis takes 2 splaser shots to kill. so if the pilot of it is any good he can kick the splaser carriers butt to the moon pretty fast
>
> Provided that the SpLaser stays out in the open like a dum-dum.
>
> First shot is pretty much free provided you aren’t standing right where he’s looking since the targeting laser appears to still be woefully inadequate. Now that Mantis is in a weakened state and can be put down with the second Mantis or distracted by teamates for the follow up kill shot.
ya but dont forget about the warthog, banshee an 2 mongooses on each side… and of course the sniper rifles.
so it isnt without its risks to run straight to the laser.
> Just stay out of vehicles until you get it back?
That won’t be a problem. If you lose SpLaser control, you won’t have any vehicles to stay out of.
They’ll be destroyed or stolen.
> If one team is better/smarter than the other, they’re still going to win whether they have the SpLazer or not.
The problem is that they win just because they won the initial firefight and created a spiraling situation where the respawners can’t overcome the Power Weapon advantage being pointed at them.
It disallows comeback victories and makes players play out their loss.
The Laser being in the middle didn’t really have any problems with the map though. Seeing how Valhalla was the most map played in Halo 3. I think there should be at least 2 lasers on the map though or at least Rockets. The Mantis is looking to be pretty damn powerful.
> > shows you never really played the map. There was plenty of cover on BG via the rolling hills which blocked many sight lines. Stop spouting the inexperienced nonsense.
>
> Provided if the person was on the same elevation as you? Sure.
>
> Once they got a height advantage you have no where to go to get away from their bullets.
>
>
>
> > Valhalla was nothing more than a game of “capture the hill and get laser then run vehicles” It was the same thing every time.
>
> Which is my problem with the map.
>
>
>
> > Like I said bro. You dont know anything about the map.
>
> I’m not your bro, pal.
>
> And I’m inclined to think that a map designed for a game without pin point precise weapons wouldn’t fare will in a game with pin point precise weapons.
There wasnt really a height advantage on BG. Enemies couldnt hide in corners and such since they could be seen a mile away and in between that space were all kinds of elevation that could be manipulated for cover. If someone got above you then you had to shoot it out with them and the best man walked away. There was no running away when you were losing a mid range 1v1 which was why BG was the best.
I’m not your pal, buddy.
The pistol was VERY accurate with its spread now being essentially the same as the mini bloom on the H4s DMR. Go compare reticules, pretty much the same.
> Lans are usually with friends. And playing with a bunch of friends negates mostly all the problems, because when playing with friends, you’re playing for fun, you’re having a blast, not caring about all the balance of the game.
>
> When you play with strangers (not in the same room) you’re more likely to notice the flaws of the game/map, especially when you can play the map X amount of times everyday. Where as lans are rare. You do it on a weekend, you play a couple games on that map, then play a different map, perhaps just -Yoink!- around with friends (again, having fun).
>
> Halo CE is not comparable in Matchmaking to any other Halo game, because there was no match making. The reason Halo CE is praised so high is because nostalgia. I gaurantee if Halo CE had matchmaking it would be a crappy experience.
sorry bro I played console Halo CE on xbox connect with strangers hundreds of miles away and it was fine.
Your whole argument is thus invalidated.
> > Valhalla as a spiritual sucessor to Blood Gulch fixed one of the biggest glaring problems with Blood Gulch.
> >
> > The problem is that Valhalla wasn’t without it’s own set of problems and it seems 343 is just repeating the mistakes Valhalla made.
> >
> > The biggest one being SpLaser control. If the SpLaser ends up being like how it was in H3, it’s going to lead to the same problems where the team that get’s the opening push pretty much seals the game and forces the other team to play out their loss.
> >
> > The other is that the side opposite of the Pelican is a complete no man’s land due to a lack of cover.
>
> there were no problems with Blood gulch
>
>
> all valhalla was, was a game of get the laser. Blood gulch was balance incarnate. If you didnt lan CE then you dont have any idea what you are talking about and halo PC doesnt count
>
> Also I played plenty of 40 high squad battle games on valhalla. Any team worth anything kept a guy or 2 near turret to prevent the neemy team from firing on their hold on the lase hill. It was far from a no mans land
i think a better way to describe it is that there was a lot of unused space
> I don’t really think securing the Splazer wins you the match. Just stay out of vehicles until you get it back? If one team is better/smarter than the other, they’re still going to win whether they have the splazer or not.
In lvl 40 high squad slayer the opposing team who won hill on the opening rush then moved half the team by turret, hill, and pelican. Now that laser was up the entire enemys vehicles were wiped out. The remaining 3 players then ran the hog and banshee virtually unmolested.
So yeh not going into vehicles is fine but then you have no counters to the enemies vehicles. If the Hill owning team was smart they brought up their sniper to top hill and then killed missle pod and the enemy sniper.
Dont get me wrong, valhalla is a blast, but its very formulaic. Though now we can spawn with PPs and stickies that may change since is suspect vehicles will be more of a death trap than ever.