just how different is Reach to ce/h2/h3?

Games Other Halo
1

Ok so CE/H2/H3 were different from each other but they all stayed in the same Halo universe and successful formula while still playing very competitive. BUT Reach was completely different from past Halos that its not recognizable at first glance but once you hear the “DOUBLE KILL” or “KILLING SPREE!” then you get that “holy crap this is a Halo game?? WTF?”

This is how different Reach is to Halo, and I’ll use Gears of War as an example:
ok just picture this here, and Gears Fans dont get me wrong I’m just using this as an EXAMPLE of how EPIC would completely betray and destroy a successful franchise…

GAME TITLE:
Gears of War -SERA E-DAY INVASION-

ABILITIES ADDED: ABILITIES ARE SEPARATED FROM EACH OTHER, ONLY USE ONE AT A TIME.
Roddie Run ability- NO Evade-Jump-Cover-Tank available, only Run
Evade ability- NO Roddie Run-Jump-Cover-Tank available, only Evade
Jumping ability- NO Run-Evade-Cover-Tank available, only Jump
Cover ability- NO Run-Evade-Jump-Tank available, only Cover
Tank Armor (moving speeds down 40%) ability- NO Run-Evade-Jump-Cover available only Strong Armor

WEAPONS AVAILABLE:
NO MORE Lancer!
Retro Lancer- The new Gears standard Automatic, NO Bayonet melee. Bloom increased 30%, strength increased 30%.
Hammer Burst- shoots just like DOOM 3 PlasmaGun , Same Power and Speed with 100% Bloom
Snub Pistol- has 100% Bloom, must slowly time shots, no more fast shooting
Gas Chain Saw- for melee range only, Just like the Lancer Saw, no bullets
Torque Bow- now only uses normal arrows and dont explode, require 2 head shots to kill
Sniper- Same as before
Boom Shot- Carries only 2 shots that’s it! and Shoots straight like Rockets.
Bayonet Knife- Same as Gears3 bayonet Retro Lancer, but No bullets, melee range only.
Gorgon Pistol- shoots spikes (Like Halo3 Brute Spiker).
Gnasher- Same as before only Spread is now random (Gears 1)
2nd Sniper- shoots a laser and must hold on target for 4 sec for 1 kill. (Focus Rifle)
Boltock- Bullet Clip 2x bigger, Weaker hit%, Shoots way faster, cant zoom in.
Sawed Off- Shoots 2 shots, half as weak from original, twice the range.
Digger- Only stuns enemy, need 3 shots to down one enemy, range greatly improved.
Flamethrower- Shoots Fire Balls that bounce off walls, long range weapon, super strong.

can only carry one of these weapons as a 1st and a Pistol weapon (Snub, Gorgon, Boltock) has to be the 2nd, (No Rifles and Gnasher, Boomer, Sniper etc combo.) Pistols cant be carried as the 3rd or Top section of Load Out.

NEW LOAD OUTS: MUST PICK ONE AT START
Roddie Run- Retro Lancer, Snub, 4 Nades, 4th option
Evade- Retro Lancer, Gorgon 2 Nades, 4th option
Jump- Retro Lancer, Boltock 3 Nades, 4th option
Cover- Retro Lancer, Snub 2 Nades, 4th option
Armor- Retro Lancer, Snub 1 Nade, 4th option

GRENADES: GRENADES CAN’T BE PLANTED ON WALLS OR GROUND.
Frags- same, explosive burst
Ink Nades- are no longer a gas but a liquid puddle, if walked on will hurt enemy.
Stun- will temporarily immobilize you, 5 seconds to allow movement of your character.
Smoke- will slowly deplete enemy’s health, (now Ink nade)

EQUIPMENT: THIS IS THE ONLY 4TH OPTION AVAILABLE, MUST CHOOSE ONE!
Noise Decoy- will alert enemy where ever placed.
Land Mine- Place on ground and explodes when near.
Bear Trap- stops enemy movement until ally frees or enemy kills him.
Poison Bate- Looks identical as a Health Pick up but kills enemy if used.
Black Tarp- when explodes will slow down enemy 80% speed, plant on wall or ground.
NET- a Trap that immobilizes up to 3 enemies at once, for 10 seconds.
Jammer- Disables enemy Radar.

GAME GENERALIZATION:
Radar added.
Jumping now available on Load Outs.
Speed reduced from last 3 Gears.
Characters are now smaller, slimmer, less bulky (more like COD).
Game feels almost identical to FALLOUT 3.
Game looks just like DOOM 3 but in remastered HD
Developers are from DOOM, Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, and 20% of original EPIC team.
All Characters are new, No original Delta Members.
Characters only 2nd rate recruits not full COG members.
Squad name is Grub Destroyer Team!
Aim assist is improved dramatically.
Health Bar is now added, very similar to COD but with health pack like on CE.
Evade distance is dramatically improved.
Each ability needs 4 seconds to reload for another use, except for Armor.
No Rank available only credits to buy armor, No numbers or symbols for identification.
Not very competitive.
Campaign story is before Gears 1. Easiest of all the Gears game.
Boss is a Grenadier Elite on last level.

…

Can you imagine the complaints from the Gears community? It would be just like it is on here. And the sad thing is that there would be noobs who would LOVE this new Gears, and say that the new one requires more skill! “Dude, on the old Gears you could Run, Evade and Cover at the same time, now you have to wisely choose the right ability and use it intelligently to out play the other abilities!” And the new Hammer burst takes more skill to use! “I dont care if the NSANZES hate it, I LOVE SERA E DAY! its NOT for noobs like Gears1/2/3!”. Sounds just like on Reach forums eh fellas!

The only thing this Fake Gears would have in common with the first 3 is their all 3rd Person Shooters THAT’S IT!

Even though Gears had changes from 1-3 they never strayed from the successful formula and still remained a True Gears of War game through out the years, yeah many complained about the changes from one to the other but it still kept people online and playing. Lucky for Gears Fans that this nightmare never became a reality, But unfortunately for us Halo Fans this Abomination has become a reality! :frowning:

God I just hope this doesn’t happen in the Gears of War future like it did with Halo!

2

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.

3

im hoping the gaming world is learning from CODs success. Many videogame franchises are turnign into something like classic board games. They are so classic and well loved you just keep making more of the same, cuz really thats what the people want. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. COD is living proof of this.

give me some well thought out new weapons
atleast 12 new maps
improved UI, forge, FF
more customization

etc but leave the fundamentals ALONE! CE got it right hence why it was a hit, build on your past success dont eternally start from scratch for sake of it

4

> im hoping the gaming world is learning from CODs success. Many videogame franchises are turnign into something like classic board games. They are so classic and well loved you just keep making more of the same, cuz really thats what the people want. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. COD is living proof of this.
>
> give me some well thought out new weapons
> atleast 12 new maps
> improved UI, forge, FF
> more customization
>
> etc but leave the fundamentals ALONE! CE got it right hence why it was a hit, build on your past success dont eternally start from scratch for sake of it

So much this.

Give me a rifle, good strafing, some new pretty maps, some new weapons, and I am set for another few years til you poop out the next one. Maybe add 1 or 2 “cool” things (like dual wielding or H3 equipment) but don’t go skewing the entire formula. Halo was a good game for a raisin.

People love Halo for Halo, so little of the gaming population is asking for amazing innovation every game. Take a look at CoD, it’s changed it formula less in 8 games than Halo did from CE to 3, and it gets multiplicatively bigger every release.

edit: Also, OP I love you and I appreciate the effort, but your wall-o-text isn’t going to convince anyone of anything at this point. It’s been over a year and anyone who thinks negatively of Reach, already agree with you, and anyone who doesn’t has fought the idea from day 1, so it’s not like they’re going to change now. Just saying.

5

I would normally start by saying that they kept the Assault Rifle (as the Lancer is the trademark weapon of Gears), but I’m not here to nitpick your scenario. All that scenario boils down to is a dissatisfaction for what they changed and how much they changed from Halo 3 to Reach. A legitimate article of debate, yes, but nobody’s saying anything new here. We know how the games are different an that they are radically different. What needs to be done here is to find common issues with the game, be them large or small, and debate how they can be addressed in future patches or the next Halo game. By drawing out your scenario, it serves only to illustrate an already-established point without looking at any of the main issues.

6

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not use offensive language or bypass the word filter.

7

> im hoping the gaming world is learning from CODs success. Many videogame franchises are turnign into something like classic board games. They are so classic and well loved you just keep making more of the same, cuz really thats what the people want. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. COD is living proof of this.
>
> give me some well thought out new weapons
> atleast 12 new maps
> improved UI, forge, FF
> more customization
>
> etc but leave the fundamentals ALONE! CE got it right hence why it was a hit, build on your past success dont eternally start from scratch for sake of it

I agree. While companies shouldn’t take the CoD approach by reselling the same exact game every year, they should make small changes. Not changes to the core gameplay, but changes to other things, like new weapons and features.

8

> I would normally start by saying that they kept the Assault Rifle (as the Lancer is the trademark weapon of Gears), but I’m not here to nitpick your scenario. All that scenario boils down to is a dissatisfaction for what they changed and how much they changed from Halo 3 to Reach. A legitimate article of debate, yes, but nobody’s saying anything new here. We know how the games are different an that they are radically different. What needs to be done here is to find common issues with the game, be them large or small, and debate how they can be addressed in future patches or the next Halo game. By drawing out your scenario, it serves only to illustrate an already-established point without looking at any of the main issues.

Well technically the Pistol is more of a trade mark weapon despite the AR being on the Halo covers. The Pistol has been in every single FPS Halo that has ever released (CE,H2/H3/REACH/ODST) remember the AR was removed from H2 and ODST!

Plus the BR quickly became the primary weapon used for competitive Halo gaming after H2.

9

I agree with the OP. Halo 4 should go back to their roots. I find GOW 3 is a lot of fun. Sometimes, I would play GOW3 more than Halo Reach. I don’t think Reach was a failure but it could’ve had a lot of things to improve upon.

10

I disagree…

From people I talk with and have played with most people are getting sick of Call of Duty due to the fact that it is basically more of the same.

Personally I was getting burnt out w/ Halo after a year or so of Halo 3. I’m glad they did a different story than Master Chief because that was getting old. To me… games w/ out sprint seem archaic. So I’m glad they added armor abilities.

So while I respect your opinion you don’t speak for everyone. I think something needed to be done to evolve the series. (And I’m VERY pleased w/ the results)

Otherwise Mario would still be in 2D…

11

> I disagree…
>
> From people I talk with and have played with most people are getting <mark>sick of Call of Duty due to the fact that it is basically more of the same.</mark>
>
> Personally I was getting burnt out w/ Halo after a year or so of Halo 3. I’m glad they did a different story than Master Chief because that was getting old. <mark>To me… games w/ out sprint seem archaic. So I’m glad they added armor abilities.</mark>
>
> So while I respect your opinion you don’t speak for everyone. I think something needed to be done to evolve the series. (And I’m VERY pleased w/ the results)
>
> Otherwise Mario would still be in 2D…

  • Exactly. And you pay $60 every year for a new Call of Duty which only comes with new weapons, perks, and maps. And a whole new Campaign. There’s nothing new in Call of Duty after MW2 came out. Why can’t this game be at least $40?

  • They should have sprint has default in the next Halo, rather than a Armor Ability. I don’t know If 343 should keep these armor abilities, but I sometimes find them annoying, like Armor lock.

12

What is this?
First you claim that Reach isn’t in the same “universe” as the Halo Trilogy.
And then you go on to discuss changing the GoW game as means to create an analogy to how you view Halo has been changed.
And you did this while being completely ignorant to the GoW2 scream that occurred because the roll had been nerfed by allowing the Lancer and Hammerburst to now stop a rolling player literally dead in their tracks. And because of that, GoW gameplay had changed completely “at the higher levels” as it no longer revolved around the Roll’n’Gnash tactic so easily.
You also seem to completely unaware of the loadout system in GoW and that many of the weapons added in GoW3 are considered “fluff” by the more experienced GoW players.

That is completely unfair and disrespectful to Halo and GoW players.

Pull your head out of what ever dark and stanky hole it’s in.

Also, to those that equate the past 4 years to being equal in time as the previous 7 years before hand, while forgetting the events that happened back then, for shame.

13

Hmm… how is Reach different to other games in the series? I’ll tell you:

Skill Gap:

(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H:CE
(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2
(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2 (TU)
(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H3
(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR
(Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR (TU)

Goes something like that. Notice a general trend?

14

> Hmm… how is Reach different to other games in the series? I’ll tell you:
>
> Skill Gap:
>
> (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H:CE
> (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2
> (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2 (TU)
> (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H3
> (Noob)IIIIII(Pro) - HR
> (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR (TU)
>
> Goes something like that. Notice a general trend?

Fix’d xD

15

> > Hmm… how is Reach different to other games in the series? I’ll tell you:
> >
> > Skill Gap:
> >
> > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H:CE
> > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2
> > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2 (TU)
> > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H3
> > (Noob)IIIIII(Pro) - HR
> > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR (TU)
> >
> > Goes something like that. Notice a general trend?
>
> Fix’d xD

So true :slight_smile:

16

> > > Hmm… how is Reach different to other games in the series? I’ll tell you:
> > >
> > > Skill Gap:
> > >
> > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H:CE
> > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2
> > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2 (TU)
> > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H3
> > > (Noob)IIIIII(Pro) - HR
> > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR (TU)
> > >
> > > Goes something like that. Notice a general trend?
> >
> > Fix’d xD
>
> So true :slight_smile:

I kind of disagree with the huge skill gap in Halo CE.

Halo CE was the easiest game a noob can pick up and get multiple kills in. But Halo CE took the largest amount of skill to get good at. So…

HALO CE
Noob:--------------------:Pro
HALO 2 (UPDATE)
Noob:-------------:Pro
HALO 3
Noob:-----------:Pro
REACH (TU)
Noob:-------:Pro

17

> > > > Hmm… how is Reach different to other games in the series? I’ll tell you:
> > > >
> > > > Skill Gap:
> > > >
> > > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H:CE
> > > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2
> > > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H2 (TU)
> > > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - H3
> > > > (Noob)IIIIII(Pro) - HR
> > > > (Noob)IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII(Pro) - HR (TU)
> > > >
> > > > Goes something like that. Notice a general trend?
> > >
> > > Fix’d xD
> >
> > So true :slight_smile:
>
> I kind of disagree with the huge skill gap in Halo CE.
>
> Halo CE was the easiest game a noob can pick up and get multiple kills in. But Halo CE took the largest amount of skill to get good at. So…
>
> HALO CE
> Noob:--------------------:Pro
> HALO 2 (UPDATE)
> Noob:-------------:Pro
> HALO 3
> Noob:-----------:Pro
> REACH (TU)
> Noob:-------:Pro

The skill cap in CE was limitless…

Trust me, no “noob” can get multiple kills on his(or her) first day on the game, if he or she was playing with skill players, be lucky to even get a kill.

18

> I kind of disagree with the huge skill gap in Halo CE.
>
> Halo CE was the easiest game a noob can pick up and get multiple kills in. But Halo CE took the largest amount of skill to get good at. So…
>
> HALO CE
> Noob:--------------------:Pro
> HALO 2 (UPDATE)
> Noob:-------------:Pro
> HALO 3
> Noob:-----------:Pro
> REACH (TU)
> Noob:-------:Pro

Nope, the CE skill gap was quite large seeing how it was hard to 3 shot with the pistol or get sick sniper kills. Not everyone could do it by simply picking up the controller the first day. No really, you had to practice at it or your 3 shots would be inconsistent. Not to mention if you went up against better players you won’t be getting those multi kills, rather be on the receiving end of them.

Halo 2 was second to CE because of the button combos (actually i think it might be equal or higher than CE’s come to think of it) because though they were unintended by Bungie, they created another layer of skill and something that had to be mastered at high level play. Plus the timing was insane but the benefits of quad shooting and other tricks ensured that you were a cut above from average Joe schmoe.

As for Halo 3, the skill gap didn’t shrink all that much because good players could still -Yoink- on you any day of the week while playing with their toes…blind folded. Unlike Reach, if you were bad, you didn’t get a chance to kill the other player due to game mechanics. At all. As a plus, there was a true skill system in place to ensure you didn’t get matched up with players outside your skill (can’t stop second accouters though). Equipment was of course was met with lukewarm reception (it was hated on just like AA but it grew on players after awhile) but it didn’t really mess up map flow or control since your skill would carry you through.

Halo Reach’s skill gap…lol Okay it has one but it has decreased further from Halo 3. While i am not the best player out there, i can certainly hold my own and then some. The thing is, this game really just pairs you up randomly (at first you’ll be paired up with low ranks but after awhile, it’s random). If the true skill system exists, shouldn’t a player say like a Hero ever be paired up with a Colonel or WO on either team? Since this game is based on not how good/bad you are but rather play time, it’s…rather inconsistent. It’s not fun trying to carry your team of thumbless kids, bringing down a group of two or three good players, or even dominating many teams on a consistent basis. Trueskill my black shiny Charizard.

Then you have things like bloom and AA into the mix, which IMO are detrimental to the game. To compensate for them, the game was made slower(Armor Lock, Evade/Sprint) and you jump pretty low compared to past Halo’s (Sprint/Evade, Jet packs). Sprinting/Evading allows you to run away from fights that you would have died from. Now this would be cool in games without shields but in Halo this slows things down since your shields have to be dropped again in order to die (which then you can run away once more if you choose to do so).

Jet packs allow Forge World abuse with the soft kill barriers and as for map control…look below. You just need to play a high level match of Reflection on the blue team to get an idea of what i mean. Can someone scream broken? lol Oh and if you are going to bring up “you can just shoot them out of the sky!” counter. You are killing bad players because good players know when to use the jetpack, how to abuse it, and avoid becoming a target (they are well aware that they can die easily in the air, thus they avoid positioning themselves in such a way).

Armor Lock slows the game down to since you have to wait for them to come out. It also gives players a crutch, a get out of free jail card for making mistakes they should have died from. Not only that, they can call team mates over to rescue them. Calling out isn’t the problem, it’s providing invincibility and crutches to players (both good and bad). It hurts even the bad players since they will rely on this tool and keep putting themselves in bad positions and thus, they will never learn how to put themselves in places where they have the advantage.

Active Camo is rubish (the AA). Like the above, you should never be spawning with Camo. Not only is it nerfed compared to a real man’s pick up camo, it allows the entire team to potentially pick Camo and perform camo sniping with DMR/SR. Radar jammer is annoying but doable.

Hologram is nothing to cry about since it’s fair and it’s always fun to trick players with it. No problems with that. Drop Shield is effective and it’s actually more balanced than it’s Halo 3 counter part. You don’t see it very often though.

However, despite the pros and cons of AA’s, map control is also twisted up and chewed because you spawn with these advantages, rather having to fight for them (Halo 3’s equipment). While the casual praise such a change (because before many of them were simply bad/beaten to them by better players), it doesn’t bode well in even a light competitive environment. Hell I’ll goes as far to say that Bungie really didn’t test these AA’s fully and how it would not only affect the standard playerbase (casuals/middlemen)but the hardcore as well as the maps they created for Reach.

Bloom on the other hand (at least how it was implemented in Reach which was quite poorly when you compare it to Shadowrun), just introduces randomness to the game. A way to enforce cadence on the player as a way to nerf utility weapons such as the BR style precision weapons. This was done in order to allow the other weapons to have more use…except that the utility weapons are still much more effective than Automatics (san’s Needler, that one is the exception since it kills really fast even if you have DMR). The randomness (I.E that one lucky shot you spammed in Reach that shouldn’t have hit) is what allows even bad players to get kills. Of course a pro level player will kill you every time, i am talking about near skilled players. Usually it was the better aim that won, now you can play the lottery and get lucky. The reason why the pros and good players will kill you every time is not because the game’s mechanics, but in spite of them because of the raw skill.

All in all, Halo is a fast paced Arena shooter. Bloom is something that works more for slower paced tactical shooters. Reach tries to be a mix of both and comes up short. I simply don’t like it, others do but they usually don’t have good counter arguments beyond “your a sheep!” or “adapt you suck!”.

Conclusion: Reach has the smallest skill gap. It can be a competitive game on the right settings (not the standard settings, those are complete rubish). But in my opinion, it is dragged down by game mechanics and poor implementation of rather good ideas. Seems to me Reach was trying to change just for the sake of changing for good or for ill (depending on who you ask).

19

Granted I’m going to have to follow my own advice and just stop visiting these forums but everyone seriously needs to stop crying about Reach. The game has been out for nearly 1.5 years… the game basically is the way it is @ this point. (Sure they might change the % on bloom back to the way it was but I highly doubt they take it out considering the ZB playlist usually don’t have more than 300 people in it) What are you accomplishing by continually complaining about this game people?

Kids… I know you need, “SOMETHING” to complain about sometimes but as you move into adulthood you need to understand that complaining is not something a, “Man” does very often… certainly not over and over about the same thing that won’t change. No offense women because we love you and want you to play Halo if you are reading but you (The ones continually complaining using the EXACT same argument OVER AND OVER AND OVER) sound like a bunch of desperate housewives complaining about your life.

Here is some advice… accept it and move on. You can put another game in and not think about Halo Reach can’t you? Wouldn’t that make not only your life but everyone else lives much better because you stop (A bad word) all the time? Some of us like Reach. I like it better than any other Halo (And I’ve played them all… plenty). Why I don’t care to become overly analytical is because most on the other side of the argument are so close minded (And condescending) its useless. I also would like to just play the game and enjoy it rather than constantly analyzing it.

And just for the record the way I see it bloom does work for the most part. Bloom really isn’t even much of a factor except for long range shots and mid - range head-shots. If you are close then spamming would hit despite bloom and is mostly true for mid-range as well. Long range spamming bloom would often cause the shooter to miss the target entirely (That is if they have the center reticule on target) especially on headshots and in some of the tests I’ve done w/ the DMR spamming bloom does not often go to the top of the reticule hence the chances of random luck headshots are quite rare. (As is over estimated by nearly everyone who argues against bloom) Yes it does slow down gameplay but I don’t see this as a bad thing? I think it makes the game MORE fun. Bottom line I don’t think bloom is really THAT big of a deal… (*Awaits wanna be MLG teens… “You have no LOGIC!!!”)

20

> If the true skill system exists, shouldn’t a player say like a Hero ever be paired up with a Colonel or WO on either team?

Yes of course they can.
Rank and TS are completely separate.
A seasoned Halo player on a brand new account can pick and play almost any Reach list and before they’re even close to WO in rank, be playing against those that have been playing for a long while and have at least stabilised their TS levels at an above average TS values.

I won’t deny that the ability to allow guests in every list messes up the TS values of teams and helps keep them low and random in combination with the already near random TS values of teams that switch players often, in combination with a system that apparently doesn’t discriminate TS value spreads to speed up match times, all do indeed make MM a different experience than before.
However, the system is working and not very well understood. And you always fear what you don’t understand :wink: