Josh Holmes talks immersion and sprint

As I know a lot of people here don’t go over to Teambeyond, I thought it’s a good idea to put this here.

**"**Thanks for being patient guys, it was a late night.

I’m going to try my best to explain some of the thinking behind the inclusion of sprint and other abilities so that you can better understand where we are coming from. Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light. I should also mention that while I am going to try and summarize a bunch of shared thoughts and experiential goals from our team, it’s impossible for me to represent each individual team member’s perspective. We spend countless hours discussing and debating everything that goes into the game as a natural part of development and it’s tough to do justice to that ongoing discourse here.

Now, to take a quick step back and talk more generally about goals for H5G and Spartan Abilities…

One of the fundamental goals that we start with for the game is “immersion,” which I’ll just use as shorthand for creating and maintaining an active sense of belief on the part of the player in everything that they are experiencing. This unpacks to a lot more complexity than I am going to dive into, but at the most basic level we are trying to simulate the act of a bipedal hero moving through an environment from first person perspective. We want to convince the player that this illusion is true. We start with questions like: what would it feel like to move? To shoot? Upon that foundation we consider the actions and capabilities that should be available to a Spartan on the battlefield. What are the unique capabilities available to a Spartan? How should those feel? This is based on established lore and our individual perceptions. To achieve an immersive experience, we first ground our portrayal of actions in what it feels like to be a human being in our world (that’s the common lens that we all use as reference) and then we adapt those actions to reflect what it would be like to be a kick–Yoink- Spartan wrapped in Mjolnir assault armor.

The desire to maximize immersion goes beyond just the portrayal of actions themselves and extends to the possibility space that should exist for players within the moment-to-moment of combat. What options or choices would I as a Spartan expect to have within combat? Gunplay is obviously paramount, and we focus a crazy amount of time on nailing the feel of firing the weapons in our game to make sure that they have weight and impact. In addition to rock-solid gunplay, with H5G we are striving to provide a focused suite of mobility-based actions that reinforce the experience of fighting as a Spartan. We specifically chose to focus on mobility because it was the part of the Spartan experience that we felt was the most under-developed and had the most promise to deliver a fresh and exciting new play experience for Halo. It’s something that we started talking about midway through Halo 4 and it became a foundational part of the design intention for Halo 5.

We want each of the new abilities to expand the possibility space for competitive combat in meaningful ways. They should provide players with new tools to create on the battlefield and present interesting choices on both sides of an encounter. At the same time we don’t want these tools to result in imbalance or chaos. When Halo is working well there is structure and flow to the combat, with a unique back-and-forth, move / counter-move experience that provides depth and opportunities to enhance the skill gap between players. That’s what we’ve been focusing on for Halo 5 MP.

Some of the Spartan Abilities are core mobility options like Clamber, Sprint and Thruster that allow for more fluid and natural movement through the environment. They should augment combat in interesting ways, when used effectively. Other abilities are offensive in nature and more oriented toward “crowd-pleaser” moves (like Charge or Ground Pound) that provide a big punctuation point in a match. At a competitive level you are not going to see many GPs attempted in close games because the risk is too high. But when someone does go for it and manages to land it, they deliver a big wow moment that pays off both for them and the viewers of the match.

Going back to sprint… why have it in Halo?

  • As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.- It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.- Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.- Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.**"**The rest follows in the post below.

**"**Anyway, sorry for rambling a bit. I started writing and this got long. Hopefully there are some nuggets of sense in there. TLDR; sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat, it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of, it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well, it is being carefully balanced, it’s something that most Halo players expect, and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role.

I will let you all be the judges as you play the beta but I believe that we are doing a much better job of designing the maps around the core mechanics with Halo 5. A big reason for that is the fact that we nailed down the core focus for gameplay early. When we start releasing some of the behind-the-scenes footage from the development of Halo 5 next week, you will see that we’ve been playing with this core set of abilities for the better part of two years. This has allowed us enough time to refine and iterate on map design with the abilities in mind. The other big change has been the addition of our internal pro team. They have been invaluable in helping us to identify issues with mechanics and map design that become obvious at the highest level of skilled play, and we’ve had the time and focus to react to that feedback.

Finally I want you to know that we do listen to you guys. As mentioned, I lurk here often to read through the forums. So do a lot of people at 343, particularly our MP and Sandbox teams. Keep in mind that there are many different inputs that we consider when we make decisions about core aspects of the game. Literally none of those are corporate hacks up the chain. Not all decisions will be ones that you agree with. Nevertheless, I appreciate the passion that we all share as Halo fans, even when we may disagree. I will be in here reading your feedback throughout the beta and I hope that you guys will share your thoughts when you play. Who knows, I may even keep posting… depending on how this goes. :wink:

/Josh**"**

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Fell free to express your opinion regarding Holmes’ statement, as long as you don’t reply to others and start infinite debates about sprint.

Clap. Clap. Clap.

I defy anyone to read this from top to bottom and spit in the man’s face. Sir, you have my utmost respect. Well said.

The flaw is right there. Immersion is good for campaign, or a game like battlefield. Halo has never been about that, You’re going to tell me that a game where players head can catch fire is meant to be immersive? Maybe for specific gametypes, but don’t base the game off that.

> 2533274898131165;4:
> The flaw is right there. Immersion is good for campaign, or a game like battlefield. Halo has never been about that, You’re going to tell me that a game where players head can catch fire is meant to be immersive? Maybe for specific gametypes, but don’t base the game off that.

To be that guy: what’s immersive doesn’t have to be typically realistic. Anything immersive, however, can be something that gets a player to be drawn into the game (like screenbob, character presence and interaction, etc).

To me, however, it just sounds like he’s trying to justify sprint by avoiding its negatives by saying that it “feels” right.

Sprint isn’t in because immersion or lore… he said it himself - it is in because the average gamer expects to sprint. He made it seem like a subtle reason, but in actuality, it is the main reason why sprint is staying.

> 2533274881015020;5:
> > 2533274898131165;4:
> > The flaw is right there. Immersion is good for campaign, or a game like battlefield. Halo has never been about that, You’re going to tell me that a game where players head can catch fire is meant to be immersive? Maybe for specific gametypes, but don’t base the game off that.
>
>
>
> To me, however, it just sounds like he’s trying to justify sprint by avoiding its negatives by saying that it “feels” right.

I think he avoided talking from a gameplay-wise/mechanically point of view, as many people won’t understand. Heck, a lot of people on these forum have provided better pro-sprint arguments.

I’m disappointed he did that, as I was hoping for a deeper and more logical explanation.

> 2533274973373704;1:
> Some of the Spartan Abilities are core mobility options like Clamber, Sprint and Thruster th

so, sprint and thrusters are optional?

> 2533274973373704;7:
> I think he avoided talking from a gameplay-wise/mechanically point of view, as many people won’t understand. Heck, a lot of people on these forum have provided better pro-sprint arguments.
>
> I’m disappointed he did that, as I was hoping for a deeper and more logical explanation.

Considering it was a post addressing Beyond and not Waypoint, I’m sure most people would have understood his arguments, even if not agreeing with them.

Can everyone please stop making threads about sprint. You know its going to stay whether you like it or not.

So long story short sprint is in because “why the yoink not?” Acourding to 343. I find it halarious he said the majority of halo players expect sprint when the majority of halo players were here before sprint was implemented. The problems of halo began because of sprint. Im getting an image of a wheelchair and a spartan in the back of my mind. If every halo forum is saying no sprint and you claim your listening then listen. Wait listening is not the problem, doing is. 343 listen and do.

Ok can we have an option to turn it off? Immersion isnt a thing in MM (haunted come to mind?) If emersion is so important then weapons should behave as they do canonicaly. But that hurts gameplay. Gameplay>canon

> 2533274949606723;10:
> Can everyone please stop making threads about sprint. You know its going to stay whether you like it or not.

I don’t remember asking you to read it. However, I’m not discussing sprint, rather giving people on this site an important update provided by on of the game’s dev regarding some important points.

> 2533274870591903;11:
> So long story short sprint is in because “why the yoink not?” Acourding to 343. I find it halarious he said the majority of halo players expect sprint when the majority of halo players were here before sprint was implemented. The problems of halo began because of sprint. Im getting an image of a wheelchair and a spartan in the back of my mind. If every halo forum is saying no sprint and you claim your listening then listen. Wait listening is not the problem, doing is. 343 listen and do.

Whether you like it or not, the casuals are the majority of the people who buy the game. A high budget AAA game like Halo needs as much sales as possible to get more funding from the publisher and maintain the same level of quality.

I never hated Sprint (or rather, I hated it in Reach because it wasn’t a base ability and as such caused a major difference between players and amplified the random factor- but never hated the mechanic itself or its implementation in Halo 4).

I think, no- I’m sure- that people are completely exaggerating the negative impact it has on gameplay and map design. Do people use it for an easy escape? A bit, yes, but that can be balanced- with the new shield block during Sprint or, if that fails in the Beta, with a desprint/significant slow down whenever you get shot. Do the maps get bigger? A bit, yes… AND? The whole game is designed around slightly bigger maps, so it makes sense. What’s the problem with slightly bigger maps? They still function the same as the small maps we know and love, just expand them by say x1.2. What’s the harm in that?

I also think it has a small and almost neglect able positive impact on the game, that being immersion and feeding impatient players who just want to get there faster. But one thing people don’t understand about Sprint is, like it or not, it has become an INDUSTRY STANDARD. Every shooter has it these days, and almost every player expects to see it in almost every shooter. A shooter without Sprint will be like something from the Stone Age gaming wise. Halo can’t stay stuck in the same 10 year old formula if it wants to attract new players, which is why they needed to keep Sprint. Sales are more important than long term popularity, and 343i aren’t building the game just for the ~200,000 classic fans that stick around. They are building it for millions that will buy it at launch, and most of them want Sprint in the game and it would be really really jarring for them to play a shooter without it.

I think Josh made some good points, and I thumb up his post.

> 2533274819302824;9:
> > 2533274973373704;7:
> > I think he avoided talking from a gameplay-wise/mechanically point of view, as many people won’t understand. Heck, a lot of people on these forum have provided better pro-sprint arguments.
> >
> > I’m disappointed he did that, as I was hoping for a deeper and more logical explanation.
>
>
> Considering it was a post addressing Beyond and not Waypoint, I’m sure most people would have understood his arguments, even if not agreeing with them.

This makes really sad. Are people on Beyond are more important or intelligence than us? I for one don’t go there as much as I go to waypoint, as it’s a violent, non civilized place with zero respect to others’ opinion that barely has any community management.

> 2533274846978810;14:
> I never hated Sprint (or rather, I hated it in Reach because it wasn’t a base ability and as such caused a major difference between players and amplified the random factor- but never hated the mechanic itself or its implementation in Halo 4).
>
> I think, no- I’m sure- that people are completely exaggerating the negative impact it has on gameplay and map design. Do people use it for an easy escape? A bit, yes, but that can be balanced- with the new shield block during Sprint or, if that fails in the Beta, with a desprint/significant slow down whenever you get shot. Do the maps get bigger? A bit, yes… AND? The whole game is designed around slightly bigger maps, so it makes sense. What’s the problem with slightly bigger maps? They still function the same as the small maps we know and love, just expand them by say x1.2. What’s the harm in that?
>
> I also think it has a small and almost neglect able positive impact on the game, that being immersion and feeding impatient players who just want to get there faster. But one thing people don’t understand about Sprint is, like it or not, it has become an INDUSTRY STANDARD. Every shooter has it these days, and almost every player expects to see it in almost every shooter. A shooter without Sprint will be like something from the Stone Age gaming wise. Halo can’t stay stuck in the same 10 year old formula if it wants to attract new players, which is why they needed to keep Sprint. Sales are more important than long term popularity, and 343i aren’t building the game just for the ~200,000 classic fans that stick around. They are building it for millions that will buy it at launch, and most of them want Sprint in the game and it would be really really jarring for them to play a shooter without it.
>
> I think Josh made some good points, and I thumb up his post.

Please don’t turn this into a sprint war. If you have something to say, there’s a lot of threads discussing sprint pros/cons.

I’d like everyone to express their own opinion without replying to others’.

> 2533274846978810;14:
> I never hated Sprint (or rather, I hated it in Reach because it wasn’t a base ability and as such caused a major difference between players and amplified the random factor- but never hated the mechanic itself or its implementation in Halo 4).
>
> I think, no- I’m sure- that people are completely exaggerating the negative impact it has on gameplay and map design. Do people use it for an easy escape? A bit, yes, but that can be balanced- with the new shield block during Sprint or, if that fails in the Beta, with a desprint/significant slow down whenever you get shot. Do the maps get bigger? A bit, yes… AND? The whole game is designed around slightly bigger maps, so it makes sense. What’s the problem with slightly bigger maps? They still function the same as the small maps we know and love, just expand them by say x1.2. What’s the harm in that?

The problem that bigger maps with sprint forces is that the game turns from what was previously run and gun to run and gun OR sprint. Previous Halo titles allowed you to move and shoot almost all the time, however, to cover ground now you must first lower your weapon and enter sprint before you can hope to get from point A to point B as quickly as you could in maps that were scaled relative to sprint were scaled prior to sprint. Halo 2’s Midship and Halo 3’s Heretic are great examples when compared to Halo 5’s Truth.

> 2533274846978810;14:
> I also think it has a small and almost neglect able positive impact on the game, that being immersion and feeding impatient players who just want to get there faster. But one thing people don’t understand about Sprint is, like it or not, it has become an INDUSTRY STANDARD. Every shooter has it these days, and almost every player expects to see it in almost every shooter. A shooter without Sprint will be like something from the Stone Age gaming wise. Halo can’t stay stuck in the same 10 year old formula if it wants to attract new players, which is why they needed to keep Sprint. Sales are more important than long term popularity, and 343i aren’t building the game just for the ~200,000 classic fans that stick around. They are building it for millions that will buy it at launch, and most of them want Sprint in the game and it would be really really jarring for them to play a shooter without it.
>
> I think Josh made some good points, and I thumb up his post.

Just because something is an “INDUSTRY STANDARD” (seriously, calm down with your allcaps son) does not make it a good enough reason. A game can not have sprint (in particular an FPS) and still play just fine. Stone Age gaming? Hah, In your opinion.

You know what I find jarring? Playing Halo that has a comparably slow killtime and then playing Call of Duty. The completely different weapon mechanics will throw off anyone that doesn’t adapt, which is why I like playing both Halo and CoD - because I have variety. Seeing games pander to what’s “popular” is killing that variety. Halo isn’t trying to modernize how it plays (so as to not become a “Stone Age” game), but to appeal to a demographic that is bigger than Halo’s fanbase. The flipside is that it alienates its previous fanbase. The players who get drawn to Halo because of the new mechanic then return to whatever game they came from, and we’re left with a game that has a dying population because the “new players” got bored and left.

We get a Halo game every 3+ or something years. Call of Duty players get a game yearly. Trying to attract that crowd will only ruin the population in the long run because Halo just cannot keep up. Hence why it shouldn’t try to pander to new audiences because it fails to do it even half decently.

I’m confused, who wrote or partly wrote some of this? Is this what Josh Holmes said or you, because there are instances where it sounds like he or you are speaking on behalf of 343.

Unlike in Reach and Halo 4, sprint is given to everybody and comes with a trade off. I’m willing to tolerate it, though it will be interesting to try out in the Halo 5 beta just to be sure.

> 2533274881015020;17:
> > 2533274846978810;14:
> > I never hated Sprint (or rather, I hated it in Reach because it wasn’t a base ability and as such caused a major difference between players and amplified the random factor- but never hated the mechanic itself or its implementation in Halo 4).
> >
> > I think, no- I’m sure- that people are completely exaggerating the negative impact it has on gameplay and map design. Do people use it for an easy escape? A bit, yes, but that can be balanced- with the new shield block during Sprint or, if that fails in the Beta, with a desprint/significant slow down whenever you get shot. Do the maps get bigger? A bit, yes… AND? The whole game is designed around slightly bigger maps, so it makes sense. What’s the problem with slightly bigger maps? They still function the same as the small maps we know and love, just expand them by say x1.2. What’s the harm in that?
>
>
>
>
> The problem that bigger maps with sprint forces is that the game turns from what was previously run and gun to run and gun OR sprint. Previous Halo titles allowed you to move and shoot almost all the time, however, to cover ground now you must first lower your weapon and enter sprint before you can hope to get from point A to point B as quickly as you could in maps that were scaled relative to sprint were scaled prior to sprint. Halo 2’s Midship and Halo 3’s Heretic are great examples when compared to Halo 5’s Truth.
>
>
> > 2533274846978810;14:
> > I also think it has a small and almost neglect able positive impact on the game, that being immersion and feeding impatient players who just want to get there faster. But one thing people don’t understand about Sprint is, like it or not, it has become an INDUSTRY STANDARD. Every shooter has it these days, and almost every player expects to see it in almost every shooter. A shooter without Sprint will be like something from the Stone Age gaming wise. Halo can’t stay stuck in the same 10 year old formula if it wants to attract new players, which is why they needed to keep Sprint. Sales are more important than long term popularity, and 343i aren’t building the game just for the ~200,000 classic fans that stick around. They are building it for millions that will buy it at launch, and most of them want Sprint in the game and it would be really really jarring for them to play a shooter without it.
> >
> > I think Josh made some good points, and I thumb up his post.
>
>
> Just because something is an “INDUSTRY STANDARD” (seriously, calm down with your allcaps son) does not make it a good enough reason. A game can not have sprint (in particular an FPS) and still play just fine. Stone Age gaming? Hah, In your opinion.
>
> You know what I find jarring? Playing Halo that has a comparably slow killtime and then playing Call of Duty. The completely different weapon mechanics will throw off anyone that doesn’t adapt, which is why I like playing both Halo and CoD - because I have variety. Seeing games pander to what’s “popular” is killing that variety. Halo isn’t trying to modernize how it plays (so as to not become a “Stone Age” game), but to appeal to a demographic that is bigger than Halo’s fanbase. The flipside is that it alienates its previous fanbase. The players who get drawn to Halo because of the new mechanic then return to whatever game they came from, and we’re left with a game that has a dying population because the “new players” got bored and left.
>
> We get a Halo game every 3+ or something years. Call of Duty players get a game yearly. Trying to attract that crowd will only ruin the population in the long run because Halo just cannot keep up. Hence why it shouldn’t try to pander to new audiences because it fails to do it even half decently.

No fighting over sprint, please. Express your own opinion without replying to others.