Edited by Moderator - Please do not post discriminatory comments or flame/attack others.
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> > > > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > > > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> > >
> > > Entire point is very well said. That’s one of the things I really like about Halo multiplayer–getting into the heads of my opponents and understanding them. In shooters that are fast-paced and have JiP, you really don’t have time to study your opponents.
> >
> > Exactly. This is because in a game like Halo, you can tell who is playing just by watching their screen. There’s so much personal input which then translates to style in a game as deep as Halo.
> >
> > I play Titanfall, but I don’t consider it a great game. There is no personality to the way I play. It’s just not deep enough to allow personal style to be evidently visible to others.
>
> Wow!! These competitive players are a joke! You guys talk about the mentality of the game, and then you say the game needs to be balanced?! Without jip, the game is anything but balanced! The teams are uneven and all fairness is lost!
> Also, having a mentality or having an over-extreme amount determination to virtually kill someone or “beat them” is just ridiculous. It’s just a game and it shouldn’t be inputing a serious urge in your head to kill someone, virtually or non-virtually.
SMH.
It’s not about killing somebody, it’s about competition. Competition is the whole point of a game of this nature, and it just so happens that killing is a requirement to compete.
JiP isn’t a solution. Quitting should be punishable. How would you feel if somebody challenged you to a game of Chess, but partway through decided to leave (most-likely because you were presumably leading), only to have a Grand Master fill their place? Even if the person was replaced by somebody of equal skill, everything you had set-up to combat the previous player’s positioning and style has been thrown out the window.
Casuals are such a joke; they lack so much logic.
Casuals aren’t fun to play against. The whole point of, for example, a Slayer game to 50 is to get to 50 first. That is why this gamemode exists. It’s a competition.
I have zero fun in beating somebody who isn’t trying to win because that is the whole point.
Furthermore, Casuals lack the insight into what makes a game better balanced for competition, causing devs to release games like Halo 4 to cater to their ADD-like desires.
EDIT: And before I get called out for hating on people with ADD, understand that it’s not like that.
Halo 4 is the equivalent of having to wear glasses, despite having perfect vision, because others require them. Halo 4 is like having to walk up the wheel-chair ramps because others require them. Halo 4 is having to suffer through shallow gameplay (OMG, so many ways to equip ma Spartan!!!) because others with ADD or ADD-like symptoms (i.e. most Casuals) require it.
I’m not saying to abolish glasses, or to take-down all wheel-chair ramps. I’m saying keep Social playlists in Halo, but create legitimate Ranked playlists, and make said Ranked playlists the “normal” way of play, with Social being the variant.
What part of the word “Casual” instantly makes people come to the conclusiont that they’re “people who don’t care about the game and play it because it’s ‘hot’”?
Eventually, that over-generalization gets old after a while.
>
So apparently, you’re saying that anyone who doesn’t “play the game solely to win” doesn’t have any idea on how to properly balance it. I consider myself a casual, but I also have a large understanding of how balance is properly established…
Balance is achieved mostly by having a good understanding of math and cause-effect relationships… Not by having a 4.5 win/loss ratio.
>
So you’re pretty much going to apologize for calling out people with ADD by saying further discrimination to not only people with ADD, but also people with both physical and mental disabilities.
I have ADD. What you’ve just said there is pretty disgusting.
>
That’s just about the only part of your post that I can agree with and am not offended by.
I suggest you edit most of your original statement.
> Only if it is disabled in ranked playlists and quit penalties are reintroduced. Quitting wasn’t as big of a problem in Halo 3 as it was in Halo: Reach and Halo 4 because of the EXP penalty.
The Halo 3 you played and the Halo 3 I played are very different games.
> JIP is fine in social playlists.
> JIP shouldn’t be anywhere near a ranked playlist.
>
> Personally, I dislike JIP in all circumstances, but I realize some people may like it, so I’m cool with keeping it in social.
>
> The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> Players come in halfway through a game, not really understanding what’s going on. There’s no sense of accomplishment because by the end, you’re playing completely different people, etc.
> Partway through a match, you start to feel and understand your opponents (“watch out for CODSucksBro, he’s a sweet sniper”). Then new people come in and change everything you thought you knew about the opposing team. It’s bad gameplay. What if you’re in the middle of a decent match, then some kid rage-quits, and all of a sudden some pro comes in and just destroy what you had started. Simply not fun.
>
> I don’t really understand why people enjoy JIP because joining a match that has already started sucks. I’d rather wait 1 minute and start from scratch. Halo used to find matches in seconds.
>
> Quitting should be punishable to avoid uneven teams.
Because all of that means nothing when 3 of your teammates quit just because the opposing team is the max rank and you’re stuck between fighting a losing fight and quitting out just like the other people. Quitting penalties do absolutely nothing but force people to just go play another game. Join in progress goes straight to the root of the problem and solves it in a quick and painless way.
Sentimentality of the match should stay in ranked playlists, I just want to have a fair fight that can be won with a full team.
> > JIP is fine in social playlists.
> > JIP shouldn’t be anywhere near a ranked playlist.
> >
> > Personally, I dislike JIP in all circumstances, but I realize some people may like it, so I’m cool with keeping it in social.
> >
> > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> > Players come in halfway through a game, not really understanding what’s going on. There’s no sense of accomplishment because by the end, you’re playing completely different people, etc.
> > Partway through a match, you start to feel and understand your opponents (“watch out for CODSucksBro, he’s a sweet sniper”). Then new people come in and change everything you thought you knew about the opposing team. It’s bad gameplay. What if you’re in the middle of a decent match, then some kid rage-quits, and all of a sudden some pro comes in and just destroy what you had started. Simply not fun.
> >
> > I don’t really understand why people enjoy JIP because joining a match that has already started sucks. I’d rather wait 1 minute and start from scratch. Halo used to find matches in seconds.
> >
> > Quitting should be punishable to avoid uneven teams.
>
> Because all of that means nothing when 3 of your teammates quit just because the opposing team is the max rank and you’re stuck between fighting a losing fight and quitting out just like the other people. Quitting penalties do absolutely nothing but force people to just go play another game. Join in progress goes straight to the root of the problem and solves it in a quick and painless way.
>
> Sentimentality of the match should stay in ranked playlists, I just want to have a fair fight that can be won with a full team.
An imbalanced match should not happen in a Ranked playlist. JIP should be in Social only
Being how Microsoft stated that all main multiplayer titles will be server based, it would be highly unlikely the JiP will not be part of the next Halo game. That being said, I feel one of the biggest problems Halo 4 had with JiP is that there was no way for a player to control if they were going to be thrown into a lobby or into a game with no hope of winning. There should be a way for a player to decide what they are getting into. My idea for this would be to have two choices under each playlist, “Quick Play” and “Search for Lobby”. The “Quick Play” option is primarily the JiP option, searching for a game with space and dropping a player in. If an open game isn’t found, a player is just placed into a lobby. The “Search for Lobby” option omits a player from the JiP search, and just looks for a pre-game lobby, starting a new one if none are found.
Now as a bit of balance for JiP players that can be tossed into one-sided games, there could be some perks to make joining JiP games more appealing (not CoD-type perks so settle down). Say if a player joins a game that is already 50% over, either of time left or by score, the negative stats of the match aren’t recorded such as the loss and deaths if the player’s team loses, which would be good for players that cry “foul” that the JiP screwed up their stats. For players that join a losing game and win, they could even earn a medal like “Comeback Kid” or something along those lines.
Even with a JiP system in place, I feel that a punishment for quitters needs to be in place as well. As the opposite of the JiP player, I think a quitter should only keep the negative stats from the game, as well as a loss credited to the player for quitting. Beyond that, players that quit games every once in a long while shouldn’t need more of a punishment. However, habitual quitters should still receive various bans the more they do it. And if there is a “Ranked” or “Competitive” styled playlist, the number of quits needed to be banned should be significantly less, possibly even an extended ban from just the Ranked playlist unless the player stops quitting so much. Hopefully though, if a player “quits” because of network trouble, the server could detect that and give the player a short window to rejoin before a quit punishment is placed on the player.
> Being how Microsoft stated that all main multiplayer titles will be server based, it would be highly unlikely the JiP will not be part of the next Halo game. That being said, I feel one of the biggest problems Halo 4 had with JiP is that there was no way for a player to control if they were going to be thrown into a lobby or into a game with no hope of winning. There should be a way for a player to decide what they are getting into. My idea for this would be to have two choices under each playlist, “Quick Play” and “Search for Lobby”. The “Quick Play” option is primarily the JiP option, searching for a game with space and dropping a player in. If an open game isn’t found, a player is just placed into a lobby. The “Search for Lobby” option omits a player from the JiP search, and just looks for a pre-game lobby, starting a new one if none are found.
>
> Now as a bit of balance for JiP players that can be tossed into one-sided games, there could be some perks to make joining JiP games more appealing (not CoD-type perks so settle down). Say if a player joins a game that is already 50% over, either of time left or by score, the negative stats of the match aren’t recorded such as the loss and deaths if the player’s team loses, which would be good for players that cry “foul” that the JiP screwed up their stats. For players that join a losing game and win, they could even earn a medal like “Comeback Kid” or something along those lines.
>
> Even with a JiP system in place, I feel that a punishment for quitters needs to be in place as well. As the opposite of the JiP player, I think a quitter should only keep the negative stats from the game, as well as a loss credited to the player for quitting. Beyond that, players that quit games every once in a long while shouldn’t need more of a punishment. However, habitual quitters should still receive various bans the more they do it. And if there is a “Ranked” or “Competitive” styled playlist, the number of quits needed to be banned should be significantly less, possibly even an extended ban from just the Ranked playlist unless the player stops quitting so much. Hopefully though, if a player “quits” because of network trouble, the server could detect that and give the player a short window to rejoin before a quit punishment is placed on the player.
>
> Those are my thoughts on it.
This is actually a pretty fair system. I like it, though I’d ditch “Quickmatch”, and just have JiP as a toggle-able option in settings.
I do like JIP, but would like just one thing implemented in the way I join a game in progress: I want a preference (settings menu) that allows me to just join some type or types of game.
For instance, I’m more than willing to join an Infinity Slayer game every single time, no matter if the team I landed on is losing hopelessly I don’t mind.
But I don’t want to join a Big Team Battle or any objective game (CTF, KOTH), so I’d like a preference setting to adjust this to my liking.
If JIP returns it should only be for social playlists. Even then it needs some tweaks. I was playing CTF the other day, the matchmaking system locked me in a 4v4 match. I looked at the K/d ratios of the players and it looking like it was going to be a tough game, a close one. At the very beginning of the match the enemy team got an extra player and my team didn’t. I lost simply because I was outnumbered from the start thanks to JIP.
> First off let’s say in halo 3, 3 of the 4 guys on your team quit that makes you the last guy. So you were winning before, but the other team catches up and you lose.
First of all, when does that ever happen? The people that are losing quit and most of the time the people that JiP are voming into a game like 10 points down. How is it fair for them?
I played CTF games where we had a lead of 2 flags and just slaying the other team. One or two of them quit, new players come. And again, and again, and again and again. Instead of 5 people losing that CTF game with no chance of winnig, there were like 12 people losing that one game.
When a game starts 4v4 in CTF the enemy team always gets another person in their team making the game unbalanced. And we dont get another teammate, or do we? Its randomm/luck based.
5 blackscreens a game instead of one or two. Making me DNF and losing games I would have won.
Just played a CTF game 6 vs 3. Well done JiP
I cant watch my friendlist, some TV or go to the toillet while searching. I could always join into a lost game. Ridicilous.
I would not play if I couldnt avoid JiP with a glitch.
I play 3 vs. 4 in slayer with my good friend. even with one player down we manage to hold the lead always with like 5 kills ahead. BOOM a bad player joins our team going negative a ton and we lose the game. Also because of JiP.
I never ever wanna Join into a game in Halo. I dont take games with JiP any serious from a competitive view. JiP makes more problems than it solves. Even if its better implented.
I would not have played Halo 4 anymore after a month if I couldnt avoid JiP with a glitch.
Funny how beat to death topics keep coming up like they are new over the years. JIP should go. It is a casual idea for casual games and gamers and it is a joke. No need to further crap on Halo with so many casual games to choose from. Its time to purge Halo of the garbage that has infected Halo: Reach and Halo 4.
But regardless, rather than promoting people to quit via JIP, and rather than trying to implement ineffective quit penalties, it is smarter and more effective for the devs to be proactive and focus on giving incentives to stay in a match rather than quitting, which is their problem to figure out. And if a player is down 1v4, tough luck. It happens, get over it. Quit if you want to quit in that situation and find another game.
And if JIP does stay in future games it should be something we can turn off on an individual basis and it should only exist in casual game modes. For those of us that don’t want to put up with that joke of a system we should have the option to turn it off. If only more games allowed that option.
I’d love some research to be done on if quitting bans actually work in any fashion. Common sense would say that people would simply leave the game in frustration at having to choose between playing losing games or being locked from the game.
Join in progress solves this. The only reasons I’ve seen against it here are people who hate it because it ruins their oh so precious statistics. Why does it really matter if you get put into a game where you’re losing? Fight back. Or better yet quit! Find a better game.
I am glad that I do not have to endure the horrors of a 1 v 8 big team match. JIP has got to stay. It is the future: Gears of War, Call of Duty have it and just about every other big FPS.
Why don’t we solve the problem by improving/fixing the MM system?
JiP is such a problem because we are forced to play with people that might not have the same mentality. Some want to win, some want to goof around, but why, why dear god, does the “super-tryhard-no life-player” have to play with the “no hands-casual-noob-player”?
If 343i returns to Halo 3’s ranked/social split there wouldn’t even be a need for JiP since competitive players ans casuals are separated.
A punishment for quitters has to return!
A great addition could be a quitting-stat which shows how many games (in %) a player has quit and then gives you an option to set a maximum quit-% you want to play with/against. But you can’t set this to a number lower than your quit-%.
e.g. you have quit 5% of your games so you can’t be matched up with players who have quit <5% of their games but you can say “hey 10% is the max” and set it to 10%.
Additional to this you shouldn’t be punished if you quit when at least 50% of your team has quit (assuming we don’t have JiP).
> Funny how beat to death topics keep coming up like they are new over the years. JIP should go. It is a casual idea for casual games and gamers and it is a joke. No need to further crap on Halo with so many casual games to choose from. Its time to purge Halo of the garbage that has infected Halo: Reach and Halo 4.
>
> But regardless, rather than promoting people to quit via JIP, and rather than trying to implement ineffective quit penalties, it is smarter and more effective for the devs to be proactive and focus on giving incentives to stay in a match rather than quitting, which is their problem to figure out. And if a player is down 1v4, tough luck. It happens, get over it. Quit if you want to quit in that situation and find another game.
>
> And if JIP does stay in future games it should be something we can turn off on an individual basis and it should only exist in casual game modes. For those of us that don’t want to put up with that joke of a system we should have the option to turn it off. If only more games allowed that option.
Level1,
You make two great points, that I have highlighted in Yellow.
JIP should be available, but only in the social playlist. It is disabled in RANKED.
Now in Social Playlist, people should be able to quit without penalty. Its social, and if the JIP works much better than it does now, places from those who quit should be filled instantly. As long as H5 is great and have a high player count, much like H3, then this should be easy.
However Quitting in Ranked games should involve a heavier punishment. An instant banned for 3 mins. IF you purposely quit because of an emergency or because someone at the door, or toilet break etc. By the time you get back, your banned is already over. But it be great if they game could detect, that you are outnumbered or the connection is really bad, and you can be prompted to forfeit the game.
JIP is good, needs improvement, but should not be available for Social playlist.
> Ignore the touchy biased people please.
>
> I’d love some research to be done on if quitting bans actually work in any fashion. Common sense would say that people would simply leave the game in frustration at having to choose between playing losing games or being locked from the game.
>
> Join in progress solves this. The only reasons I’ve seen against it here are people who hate it because it ruins their oh so precious statistics. Why does it really matter if you get put into a game where you’re losing? Fight back. Or better yet quit! Find a better game.
I take it from this that winning and losing dosn’t really matter to you. That’s cool.
But I’m curious. What is it about the game that you enjoy? What about the game draws your interest, outside of winning and losing?
as a person who has nearly 20,000 h4 mm kills, (a flash in the pan in comparison to CE-H:R playtime) i have a qualitative analysis from my experiences and the 100+ people that i talk to and what their experience is like.
from these experiences it’s quite clear that JiP doesn’t solve the quitting problem but enhances it. it allows players to not have any reward for winning (lopsided games, join into losing game, statistics etc) and has next to no punishment for quitting (coz hey, someone will take my place).
in my experiences across all online multiplayer halo games, halo 4 by far has the worst quitting problem.
my suggestion, as it always has been, is have the league of legends system, in which players who quit can only join back to the game they came from, quitting is penalized with a quit penalty and it gives the losing team the chance to surrender after a certain time limit (and in halo’s case score as well)
trust me that system curbs the quitting problem, and the LoL community is a lot more toxic than the halo one.