Join in progress needs to return

So some people like join in progress (jip) but others don’t so I’m gonna explain why it’s a good idea. First off let’s say in halo 3, 3 of the 4 guys on your team quit that makes you the last guy. So you were winning before, but the other team catches up and you lose. This was mostly becuse that there was no jip. So let’s say in halo 4, 3 out of 5 of your teammates quit. Now it’s just you and that other guy. So the enemy team is catching up. Than suddenly you look on the left side of you HUD and see (insert name) joined the game and your team, than 5 sec later more guys joined your team . Your team than wins .

Now see why it’s good, but now let’s talk about joining a match. I know people hate jip becuse you sometimes join a match that’s gonna end in 1 min. But it’s still better than losing a game becuse your teammates quit. Post your thoughts below.

Only if it is disabled in ranked playlists and quit penalties are reintroduced. Quitting wasn’t as big of a problem in Halo 3 as it was in Halo: Reach and Halo 4 because of the EXP penalty.

JIP is fine in social playlists.
JIP shouldn’t be anywhere near a ranked playlist.

Personally, I dislike JIP in all circumstances, but I realize some people may like it, so I’m cool with keeping it in social.

The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
Players come in halfway through a game, not really understanding what’s going on. There’s no sense of accomplishment because by the end, you’re playing completely different people, etc.
Partway through a match, you start to feel and understand your opponents (“watch out for CODSucksBro, he’s a sweet sniper”). Then new people come in and change everything you thought you knew about the opposing team. It’s bad gameplay. What if you’re in the middle of a decent match, then some kid rage-quits, and all of a sudden some pro comes in and just destroy what you had started. Simply not fun.

I don’t really understand why people enjoy JIP because joining a match that has already started sucks. I’d rather wait 1 minute and start from scratch. Halo used to find matches in seconds.

Quitting should be punishable to avoid uneven teams.

> The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.

Entire point is very well said. That’s one of the things I really like about Halo multiplayer–getting into the heads of my opponents and understanding them. In shooters that are fast-paced and have JiP, you really don’t have time to study your opponents.

In social playlists it would be ok, but it shouldn’t be in Ranked playlists.

> > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
>
> Entire point is very well said. That’s one of the things I really like about Halo multiplayer–getting into the heads of my opponents and understanding them. In shooters that are fast-paced and have JiP, you really don’t have time to study your opponents.

Exactly. This is because in a game like Halo, you can tell who is playing just by watching their screen. There’s so much personal input which then translates to style in a game as deep as Halo.

I play Titanfall, but I don’t consider it a great game. There is no personality to the way I play. It’s just not deep enough to allow personal style to be evidently visible to others.

If join-in-progress is to return, then I agree with the other posts here, it should only be in social playlists. Furthermore, even within these social playlists, join-in-progress should be optional. I get it, losing teammates isn’t fun, and it’s nice to have them be replaced when they leave. However, I personally prefer to play a game from the beginning rather than just be thrown into the middle of a game where my team is losing badly.

For those who don’t mind joining mid-game, they have the choice to do so. For those of us who don’t, we can choose to “suffer” longer wait times in order to start a new game.

> > > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> >
> > Entire point is very well said. That’s one of the things I really like about Halo multiplayer–getting into the heads of my opponents and understanding them. In shooters that are fast-paced and have JiP, you really don’t have time to study your opponents.
>
> Exactly. This is because in a game like Halo, you can tell who is playing just by watching their screen. There’s so much personal input which then translates to style in a game as deep as Halo.
>
> I play Titanfall, but I don’t consider it a great game. There is no personality to the way I play. It’s just not deep enough to allow personal style to be evidently visible to others.

Wow!! These competitive players are a joke! You guys talk about the mentality of the game, and then you say the game needs to be balanced?! Without jip, the game is anything but balanced! The teams are uneven and all fairness is lost!
Also, having a mentality or having an over-extreme amount determination to virtually kill someone or “beat them” is just ridiculous. It’s just a game and it shouldn’t be inputing a serious urge in your head to kill someone, virtually or non-virtually.

JiP was a good idea, but it was implemented in the most -Yoink–backwards way possible. Like so many of the bad decisions 343i has made with this game, JiP was a one-size-fits-all change that players could not avoid without manipulating their network settings. It the long term, it caused more problems than it solved.

I think JiP would have worked had it been limited with these kinds of parameters:

-A matchmaking search option allowing people to disable or enable JiP in their searches.

-Restricting the JiP window to end when the first player spawns on a map. Because adding a player to a game takes some time, it would ensure that players spawn into matches only within the first few minuets of the game.

-Increasing the time between post-game breakdown and the creation of a new lobby, to allow players to check their stats, and back out of the game before being locked into a team in the new lobby. This would also ensure that the game takes time to search for new players.

-Provide real disincentives for quitting, such as a penalty to a player’s skill rank (Yes, it would have to be an in-game skill rank).

-Allow a party up feature such as what Halo 3 had, thus lowering the time needed for new player searches.

> Wow!! These competitive players are a joke! You guys talk about the mentality of the game, and then you say the game needs to be balanced?! Without jip, the game is anything but balanced! The teams are uneven and all fairness is lost!

How does JiP (in its current state) rectify imbalance? When a player starts out a match in 4 vs 1 it is unfair to that 1 player, but adding 3 more to his team when he is already losing 48 - 10 is unfair to the 3 JiPed players. You don;t achieve equality by spreading misery.

> Also, having a mentality or having an over-extreme amount determination to virtually kill someone or “beat them” is just ridiculous. It’s just a game and it shouldn’t be inputing a serious urge in your head to kill someone, virtually or non-virtually.

I honestly don’t know where you are coming from with this. Trying to excel and dominate other players (Competitiveness) in a video game doesn’t turn people into murdering psychopaths.

I’m fine with a join in JiP as long as there is a system in place to punish quitting. H4 didn’t have one and it made a clear difference.

Also not in ranked.

> How does JiP (in its current state) rectify imbalance? When a player starts out a match in 4 vs 1 it is unfair to that 1 player, but adding 3 more to his team when he is already losing 48 - 10 is unfair to the 3 JiPed players. You don;t achieve equality by spreading misery.
>
> I honestly don’t know where you are coming from with this. Trying to excel and dominate other players (Competitiveness) in a video game doesn’t turn people into murdering psychopaths.

  1. how? a score is just a score, and at least than they have a chance to turn it around. and as of right now without a true-skill rank the score doesn’t matter. If true skill was to return make it that the score doesn’t affect JIP players to a degree based on how long the match was already going on(and amount of players per team)

  2. I’m fine with competitiveness, but i have to agree with that guy, the extreme mentality of “I want to specifically kill YOU” is just plain weird and way too try hard.

> 1) how? a score is just a score, and at least than they have a chance to turn it around. and as of right now without a true-skill rank the score doesn’t matter. If true skill was to return make it that the score doesn’t affect JIP players to a degree based on how long the match was already going on(and amount of players per team)

You’re telling me that in a 48 - 10 match (60 to win), the 3 JiP players have a chance to turn things around? One of the biggest complaints about JiP has been being joined into matches that are effectively over.

> 2) I’m fine with competitiveness, but i have to agree with that guy, the extreme mentality of <mark>“I want to specifically kill YOU”</mark> is just plain weird and way too try hard.

When did Vector0 or Erik L or anyone else say anything like that? This is a gross misrepresentation of what they actually said.

Edited by Moderator - Please do not post discriminatory comments or flame/attack others.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> > > > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > > > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> > >
> > > Entire point is very well said. That’s one of the things I really like about Halo multiplayer–getting into the heads of my opponents and understanding them. In shooters that are fast-paced and have JiP, you really don’t have time to study your opponents.
> >
> > Exactly. This is because in a game like Halo, you can tell who is playing just by watching their screen. There’s so much personal input which then translates to style in a game as deep as Halo.
> >
> > I play Titanfall, but I don’t consider it a great game. There is no personality to the way I play. It’s just not deep enough to allow personal style to be evidently visible to others.
>
> Wow!! These competitive players are a joke! You guys talk about the mentality of the game, and then you say the game needs to be balanced?! Without jip, the game is anything but balanced! The teams are uneven and all fairness is lost!
> Also, having a mentality or having an over-extreme amount determination to virtually kill someone or “beat them” is just ridiculous. It’s just a game and it shouldn’t be inputing a serious urge in your head to kill someone, virtually or non-virtually.

SMH.
It’s not about killing somebody, it’s about competition. Competition is the whole point of a game of this nature, and it just so happens that killing is a requirement to compete.

JiP isn’t a solution. Quitting should be punishable. How would you feel if somebody challenged you to a game of Chess, but partway through decided to leave (most-likely because you were presumably leading), only to have a Grand Master fill their place? Even if the person was replaced by somebody of equal skill, everything you had set-up to combat the previous player’s positioning and style has been thrown out the window.

Casuals are such a joke; they lack so much logic.
Casuals aren’t fun to play against. The whole point of, for example, a Slayer game to 50 is to get to 50 first. That is why this gamemode exists. It’s a competition.
I have zero fun in beating somebody who isn’t trying to win because that is the whole point.
Furthermore, Casuals lack the insight into what makes a game better balanced for competition, causing devs to release games like Halo 4 to cater to their ADD-like desires.

EDIT: And before I get called out for hating on people with ADD, understand that it’s not like that.
Halo 4 is the equivalent of having to wear glasses, despite having perfect vision, because others require them. Halo 4 is like having to walk up the wheel-chair ramps because others require them. Halo 4 is having to suffer through shallow gameplay (OMG, so many ways to equip ma Spartan!!!) because others with ADD or ADD-like symptoms (i.e. most Casuals) require it.
I’m not saying to abolish glasses, or to take-down all wheel-chair ramps. I’m saying keep Social playlists in Halo, but create legitimate Ranked playlists, and make said Ranked playlists the “normal” way of play, with Social being the variant.

>

What part of the word “Casual” instantly makes people come to the conclusiont that they’re “people who don’t care about the game and play it because it’s ‘hot’”?

Eventually, that over-generalization gets old after a while.

>

So apparently, you’re saying that anyone who doesn’t “play the game solely to win” doesn’t have any idea on how to properly balance it. I consider myself a casual, but I also have a large understanding of how balance is properly established…

Balance is achieved mostly by having a good understanding of math and cause-effect relationships… Not by having a 4.5 win/loss ratio.

>

So you’re pretty much going to apologize for calling out people with ADD by saying further discrimination to not only people with ADD, but also people with both physical and mental disabilities.

I have ADD. What you’ve just said there is pretty disgusting.

>

That’s just about the only part of your post that I can agree with and am not offended by.

I suggest you edit most of your original statement.

> Only if it is disabled in ranked playlists and quit penalties are reintroduced. Quitting wasn’t as big of a problem in Halo 3 as it was in Halo: Reach and Halo 4 because of the EXP penalty.

The Halo 3 you played and the Halo 3 I played are very different games.

> JIP is fine in social playlists.
> JIP shouldn’t be anywhere near a ranked playlist.
>
> Personally, I dislike JIP in all circumstances, but I realize some people may like it, so I’m cool with keeping it in social.
>
> The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> Players come in halfway through a game, not really understanding what’s going on. There’s no sense of accomplishment because by the end, you’re playing completely different people, etc.
> Partway through a match, you start to feel and understand your opponents (“watch out for CODSucksBro, he’s a sweet sniper”). Then new people come in and change everything you thought you knew about the opposing team. It’s bad gameplay. What if you’re in the middle of a decent match, then some kid rage-quits, and all of a sudden some pro comes in and just destroy what you had started. Simply not fun.
>
> I don’t really understand why people enjoy JIP because joining a match that has already started sucks. I’d rather wait 1 minute and start from scratch. Halo used to find matches in seconds.
>
> Quitting should be punishable to avoid uneven teams.

Because all of that means nothing when 3 of your teammates quit just because the opposing team is the max rank and you’re stuck between fighting a losing fight and quitting out just like the other people. Quitting penalties do absolutely nothing but force people to just go play another game. Join in progress goes straight to the root of the problem and solves it in a quick and painless way.

Sentimentality of the match should stay in ranked playlists, I just want to have a fair fight that can be won with a full team.

> > JIP is fine in social playlists.
> > JIP shouldn’t be anywhere near a ranked playlist.
> >
> > Personally, I dislike JIP in all circumstances, but I realize some people may like it, so I’m cool with keeping it in social.
> >
> > The reason why I hate JIP is because you never feel connected to what’s going on.
> > In the lobby, you see your opponents, and you’re dedicated to fighting them, but players are switched out without you even realizing it, and it just ruins that “I’m going to beat you” mentality.
> > Players come in halfway through a game, not really understanding what’s going on. There’s no sense of accomplishment because by the end, you’re playing completely different people, etc.
> > Partway through a match, you start to feel and understand your opponents (“watch out for CODSucksBro, he’s a sweet sniper”). Then new people come in and change everything you thought you knew about the opposing team. It’s bad gameplay. What if you’re in the middle of a decent match, then some kid rage-quits, and all of a sudden some pro comes in and just destroy what you had started. Simply not fun.
> >
> > I don’t really understand why people enjoy JIP because joining a match that has already started sucks. I’d rather wait 1 minute and start from scratch. Halo used to find matches in seconds.
> >
> > Quitting should be punishable to avoid uneven teams.
>
> Because all of that means nothing when 3 of your teammates quit just because the opposing team is the max rank and you’re stuck between fighting a losing fight and quitting out just like the other people. Quitting penalties do absolutely nothing but force people to just go play another game. Join in progress goes straight to the root of the problem and solves it in a quick and painless way.
>
> Sentimentality of the match should stay in ranked playlists, I just want to have a fair fight that can be won with a full team.

An imbalanced match should not happen in a Ranked playlist. JIP should be in Social only

Being how Microsoft stated that all main multiplayer titles will be server based, it would be highly unlikely the JiP will not be part of the next Halo game. That being said, I feel one of the biggest problems Halo 4 had with JiP is that there was no way for a player to control if they were going to be thrown into a lobby or into a game with no hope of winning. There should be a way for a player to decide what they are getting into. My idea for this would be to have two choices under each playlist, “Quick Play” and “Search for Lobby”. The “Quick Play” option is primarily the JiP option, searching for a game with space and dropping a player in. If an open game isn’t found, a player is just placed into a lobby. The “Search for Lobby” option omits a player from the JiP search, and just looks for a pre-game lobby, starting a new one if none are found.

Now as a bit of balance for JiP players that can be tossed into one-sided games, there could be some perks to make joining JiP games more appealing (not CoD-type perks so settle down). Say if a player joins a game that is already 50% over, either of time left or by score, the negative stats of the match aren’t recorded such as the loss and deaths if the player’s team loses, which would be good for players that cry “foul” that the JiP screwed up their stats. For players that join a losing game and win, they could even earn a medal like “Comeback Kid” or something along those lines.

Even with a JiP system in place, I feel that a punishment for quitters needs to be in place as well. As the opposite of the JiP player, I think a quitter should only keep the negative stats from the game, as well as a loss credited to the player for quitting. Beyond that, players that quit games every once in a long while shouldn’t need more of a punishment. However, habitual quitters should still receive various bans the more they do it. And if there is a “Ranked” or “Competitive” styled playlist, the number of quits needed to be banned should be significantly less, possibly even an extended ban from just the Ranked playlist unless the player stops quitting so much. Hopefully though, if a player “quits” because of network trouble, the server could detect that and give the player a short window to rejoin before a quit punishment is placed on the player.

Those are my thoughts on it.

> Being how Microsoft stated that all main multiplayer titles will be server based, it would be highly unlikely the JiP will not be part of the next Halo game. That being said, I feel one of the biggest problems Halo 4 had with JiP is that there was no way for a player to control if they were going to be thrown into a lobby or into a game with no hope of winning. There should be a way for a player to decide what they are getting into. My idea for this would be to have two choices under each playlist, “Quick Play” and “Search for Lobby”. The “Quick Play” option is primarily the JiP option, searching for a game with space and dropping a player in. If an open game isn’t found, a player is just placed into a lobby. The “Search for Lobby” option omits a player from the JiP search, and just looks for a pre-game lobby, starting a new one if none are found.
>
> Now as a bit of balance for JiP players that can be tossed into one-sided games, there could be some perks to make joining JiP games more appealing (not CoD-type perks so settle down). Say if a player joins a game that is already 50% over, either of time left or by score, the negative stats of the match aren’t recorded such as the loss and deaths if the player’s team loses, which would be good for players that cry “foul” that the JiP screwed up their stats. For players that join a losing game and win, they could even earn a medal like “Comeback Kid” or something along those lines.
>
> Even with a JiP system in place, I feel that a punishment for quitters needs to be in place as well. As the opposite of the JiP player, I think a quitter should only keep the negative stats from the game, as well as a loss credited to the player for quitting. Beyond that, players that quit games every once in a long while shouldn’t need more of a punishment. However, habitual quitters should still receive various bans the more they do it. And if there is a “Ranked” or “Competitive” styled playlist, the number of quits needed to be banned should be significantly less, possibly even an extended ban from just the Ranked playlist unless the player stops quitting so much. Hopefully though, if a player “quits” because of network trouble, the server could detect that and give the player a short window to rejoin before a quit punishment is placed on the player.
>
> Those are my thoughts on it.

This is actually a pretty fair system. I like it, though I’d ditch “Quickmatch”, and just have JiP as a toggle-able option in settings.