Join in Progress is Unfair - Here's Why

Join in progress is unfair to one, potentially two, kinds of people.

There are three types of players in a Halo game in which one or more players is/are missing:

  1. Those who are on a full team
  2. Those who are on the team lacking players
  3. Those searching and eventually joining in progress

Originally, without join in progress, the players in group 2 would seemingly always be at a disadvantage. 343i attempted to fix this by implementing join in progress, but it didn’t/doesn’t work.

If join in progress starts a game before the adequate number of players has joined the lobby, then the group 2 players are at a disadvantage immediately (vs. later in the match, after somebody eventually quits or gets booted).

Therefore, join in progress is still unfair to those players, because it actually creates unbalanced games in its nature. Rather than waiting for 30 seconds, it starts the game with uneven teams. You don’t have to be a programming major to understand why this doesn’t make sense.

So if join in progress fails to work properly from the get-go, as it does very often, group 2 is at a disadvantage. But what if join in progress works as intended?

If someone quits, gets booted, or the game starts with uneven teams, join in progress tries to add players to the game. If this happens, group 3 are at a disadvantage. Unlike Call of Duty, where there are no weapons on the map, vehicles to control, or choke points that are actually helpful, Halo revolves around these things in its nature. Without these things, Halo isn’t Halo.

So when players join a game mid-way through, they are at a disadvantage because they cannot take those vehicles, choke points, or weapons. More likely, the enemy already has control of more than half of them, seeing as how group 3 would be joining a team lacking players, giving better chances to the other team to control items.

Where does this leave us? One team has most of the weapons, vehicles, and map control, while the other team has nothing but poor spawns. Unless the skill gap is significant, which 343i says it isn’t, the game will end with the team who started with more players winning.

Additionally, join in progress has the ability to put two groups at a disadvantage. If the players in group 3 are terrible, then group 2 is immediately hindered in their ability to win the game.

Ultimately, you cannot justify join in progress without first admitting that something else doesn’t work right (i.e. the skill-based searching system, the host migrations, etc.). If you don’t want to admit those don’t work, then admit join in progress doesn’t make logical sense.

Please leave comments below. I will respond to any logical arguments put forth. I’m eager to see anyone counter these claims, as the only argument for join in progress I’ve seen is “it helps the losing team”, which I countered above.

TL;DR: Join in progress is unfair to somebody in every game, whether it’s the players starting the game or joining. Please don’t respond below saying “I like it because now I never have uneven teams like I did all the time in Halo 3” because we all know that uneven teams were rare.

I’m still seeing arguments on the forums right now about this.

If join in progress only placed you in games that are fairly even in score and not more than half way through (score/time) and obviously didn’t start games prematurely (with uneven teams) then it would be a decent addition.

Clearly 343 wanted to just have the shortest possible matchmaking time without considering any of the negative side effects. This is one of the primary things that needs to be fixed before I will support their game and DLC with any more of my money.

Edit: I should also add, join in progress also needs to be a search option that can be turned off, and should not split up parties on different teams either. With these changes, only then would I welcome the addition of join in progress.

At first I was frustrated as well, but then I had a realization, and maybe it will help some other frustrated players.

I used to be very concerned with my stats, like Win/Loss, and so getting put into a game I was sure to loose with 45 seconds left was very aggrivating. But then I noticed:

Hey, I’m getting the XP like I just played a full game, but I only played for 1 minute. And since I am staying in the lobby after the game, my next game is starting very quickly.

So now I basically see it as free XP. Just a thought. We can’t change the game, but maybe we can change our mindset?

Join in progress is fine for this game the way it stands. With no ranking it doesn’t really matter. Stop taking a video game so seriously and just have fun. Run around and shoot other players, rinse, and repeat. It’s not that hard.

Well I dont mind it… even when I join a Regicide match and the king has 175 points.
I just try my best to keep K/D positive.

I prefer full teams as opposed to playing down 1 or 2 players for the rest of the match.

JIP has been working for over 15 years in PC gaming, its only the console kiddies that have a problem with it.

> Join in progress is fine for this game the way it stands. With no ranking it doesn’t really matter. Stop taking a video game so seriously and just have fun. Run around and shoot other players, rinse, and repeat. It’s not that hard.

I am unclear as to how your apathy renders the logical argument put in place by the OP incorrect. A running theme in many of your posts.

I hate getting stuck on a team where the players are so awful that other players already quit which is why I AM BEING STUCK ON THEIR TEAM!

It sucks landing in a game where every time you spawn you get murdered because the other team has 2 banshees, 2 mantis and snipers in every corner of the map.

I find it to be really really annoying.

I don’t care for it either, but quitting is too rampant.

I’ve played plenty of games where “in progress” players kept the game fun and balanced.

In the absence of an effective quit penalty or ban, a jip system is badly needed.

> So now I basically see it as free XP. Just a thought. We can’t change the game, but maybe we can change our mindset?

XP is irrelevant to me, I no longer have a use for it. Same goes for everyone at 130, which won’t take long for players to reach in the long run of the games life span.

> At first I was frustrated as well, but then I had a realization, and maybe it will help some other frustrated players.
>
> I used to be very concerned with my stats, like Win/Loss, and so getting put into a game I was sure to loose with 45 seconds left was very aggrivating. But then I noticed:
>
> Hey, I’m getting the XP like I just played a full game, but I only played for 1 minute. And since I am staying in the lobby after the game, my next game is starting very quickly.
>
> So now I basically see it as free XP. Just a thought. We can’t change the game, but maybe we can change our mindset?

You don’t always get the full XP you would’ve gotten in a full game.

It’s often quite a bit less if you joined close to the end.

I’ve joined games where as soon as I spawned it ended and I got hardly anything.

> I prefer full teams as opposed to playing down 1 or 2 players for the rest of the match.
>
> JIP has been working for over 15 years in PC gaming, its only the console kiddies that have a problem with it.

You posted this exact same thing in another thread, and no matter how many times you post it, you’re still wrong.

It’s not about PC vs. Console. It’s about Halo vs. Every Other Game.

CoD players have absolutely no problem with it on any console. It makes sense to have it, because, as I said in the OP (did you read it?), CoD isn’t affected by weapons or vehicles on the map. Rather, it’s basically a camp fest with whatever weapon you start with. That’s completely different from Halo. So please stop reposting things here if you can’t formulate a logical argument in favor of JiP.

> Join in progress is fine for this game the way it stands. With no ranking it doesn’t really matter. Stop taking a video game so seriously and just have <mark>fun</mark>. Run around and shoot other players, rinse, and repeat. It’s not that hard.

That word, fun, is so subjective. Don’t tell me how to have fun. Please. It’s annoying. I have fun by doing one or more of the following things:

  1. Winning
  2. Having a great K/D
  3. Pulling off sick snipes or grenade shots
  4. Winning by 1 kill only

You failed to address any of the concerns I outlined in the OP, and just told me to have fun a different way. I don’t enjoy running and gunning. It’s annoying and it gets old after the first ten deaths in the matter of 30 seconds. It’s not how Halo should be played.

> At first I was frustrated as well, but then I had a realization, and maybe it will help some other frustrated players.
>
> I used to be very concerned with my stats, like Win/Loss, and so getting put into a game I was sure to loose with 45 seconds left was very aggrivating. But then I noticed:
>
> Hey, I’m getting the XP like I just played a full game, but I only played for 1 minute. And since I am staying in the lobby after the game, my next game is starting very quickly.
>
> So now I basically see it as free XP. Just a thought. We can’t change the game, but maybe we can change our mindset?

I appreciate your tone, but as I stated just above, I don’t have fun by gaining EXP. I actually contemplated not using my double exp. from Mtn Dew because the ranking system in this game is so quick. I also don’t have fun losing that game because I got thrown into it with 1 minute left or when I’m down by 400 points.

I’ll add another thing that should have been in the OP:

Who quits games? People who are losing.
Which games are you most likely going to join because of JiP? Games in which you will be losing.

It’s not a hard concept, and I don’t understand why people enjoy getting placed into these games.

I also hate the constant black screens every time somebody joins.

> Join in progress is fine for this game the way it stands. With no ranking it doesn’t really matter. Stop taking a video game so seriously and just have <mark>fun</mark>. Run around and shoot other players, rinse, and repeat. It’s not that hard.

I remember once someone telling me that Fun is subjective.

Lol, you didn’t need to write an essay to explain why JIP is unfair. All you had to say was that JIP puts players in games where their team is losing by a lot, and the other team has power weapons due to personal ordinance.

OP is selfish. Stop being so self centred please.

The way I see it, this should be simple to fix.

  1. Start games with a full lobby.

  2. Increase the punishment of quit bans, or lose XP if you quit

  3. Don’t have JIP for a game that’s with a score differential of say 2:3

  4. This avoid people starting with a disadvantage. Not sure why this happened.

  5. Obviously if you need to leave for something important, it won’t affect you. The point of this is to make JIP much less frequent, rather than people leaving when they feel like it. Halo 3 rarely had anyone leave a game, and it wasn’t in the droves.

  6. This is also obvious. If people are losing by more than 33% of the other teams score, I’d say it’s a good chance they’ll lose regardless.

This way JIP isn’t a system for people to just ‘leave when they feel like it,’ it still gives us a chance to join our friend’s games, it decreases the one-sided games, and if someone leaves and it’s close it won’t cripple a team for more than a minute.

I don’t do JIP. If I see the game putting me in a JIP I do the xbox network trick until it puts me in a new game.

> OP is selfish. Stop being so self centred please.

You’re either extremely incompetent or you’re rude. I can’t tell which.

I present an opinion shared by many others, and you bash me. Nice.

All I’m saying is that your putting your own desires above at least 7 other people for what reason exactly?
No-one likes having uneven teams. To rectify this some people need to join game in progress. You play this game with other people, you have to cater for other people at some point.
EDIT
Just to clarify I’m talking about JIP as players coming in to replace players that have left during the game. NOT adding in players because 343 drank when she was was pregnant and now the game is too limited to allow players to check stats and leave before locking the lobby as “full” and starting the game.