A Jiralhanae War Chieftain with a Gravity Hammer and a Brute Shot vs a Sangheili Zealot with an Energy Sword and Plasma Rifle.
Battle led takes place in a forest.
Who Wins?
> 2533274926227685;1:
> A Jiralhanae War Chieftain with a Gravity Hammer and a Brute Shot vs a Sangheili Zealot with an Energy Sword and Plasma Rifle.
>
> Battle led takes place in a forest.
>
> Who Wins?
I say chieftain because of pure strength and also the brute shot is much better than a plasma rifle. Especially if the battle takes place in a forest because the brute shot rounds would make trees splinter and maybe turn into tree grenades with large splinters shooting everywhere
Really can’t say. Depends on the individuals and luck.
> 2533274904397463;2:
> > 2533274926227685;1:
> > A Jiralhanae War Chieftain with a Gravity Hammer and a Brute Shot vs a Sangheili Zealot with an Energy Sword and Plasma Rifle.
> >
> > Battle led takes place in a forest.
> >
> > Who Wins?
>
>
> I say chieftain because of pure strength and also the brute shot is much better than a plasma rifle. Especially if the battle takes place in a forest because the brute shot rounds would make trees splinter and maybe turn into tree grenades with large splinters shooting everywhere
I think it’s also important to note that the Jiralhanae War Chieftain has incredibly powerful energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, a Brute War Chieftain managed to withstand to concentrated firepower from 24 Marines with MA5Bs and BR55s and later on in the novel managed to withstand a great deal of fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (which is then replicated in Halo: Initiation 1). In comparison, we have numerous showings of Sangheili Zealot shielding falling to a handful of pistol rounds (Halo: Nightfall), SMG fire (Halo 5: Guardians), a short burst from an MA37 Assault Rifle (Halo: Reach) and a shotgun blast or two (Halo 5: Guardians).
So the Brute Chieftain certainly possesses the durability advantage here by a large margin, just on ener shields alone, never mind the Brute’s natural durability.
A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> 2533274972631064;5:
> A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> 2533274926227685;6:
> > 2533274972631064;5:
> > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
>
>
> Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
>
> And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
>
> Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> 2535409049025678;7:
> > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> >
> >
> > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> >
> > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> >
> > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
>
>
> In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
> 2533274926227685;8:
> > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > >
> > >
> > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > >
> > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > >
> > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> >
> >
> > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
>
>
> Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
>
> I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
>
> Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
> 2533274978302173;9:
> > 2533274926227685;8:
> > > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > > >
> > > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > > >
> > > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> > >
> > >
> > > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> >
> >
> > Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
> >
> > I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
> >
> > Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
>
>
> I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
Please provide a source stating that cutscenes are “sped up” and the novels take precedence over cutscenes and cinematics. In fact, please provide a reason why a single writer with a pen takes precedence over a team of writers, program,era, directors and artists spending a tremendous amount of money, time and effort into these cutscenes/cinematics.
Brute War Chieftains are the highest rank? Yes, let’s ignore the Jiralhanae Army Commanders (implied to be higher ranked, much more rare) and the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae why don’t we. A let’s also ignore that all the higher Elite ranks are either naval related, political or titles (Supreme Commander, which still falls under the Zealot classification, shipmaster, which could be either general, chieftain or zealot, Field Marshall which is again, zealot, Arbiter, which is more of a title than a rank, and Imperial Admiral which is a naval rank and a title).
> 2533274926227685;10:
> > 2533274978302173;9:
> > > 2533274926227685;8:
> > > > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > > > >
> > > > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> > >
> > >
> > > Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
> > >
> > > I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
> > >
> > > Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
> >
> >
> > I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
>
>
> Please provide a source stating that cutscenes are “sped up” and the novels take precedence over cutscenes and cinematics. In fact, please provide a reason why a single writer with a pen takes precedence over a team of writers, program,era, directors and artists spending a tremendous amount of money, time and effort into these cutscenes/cinematics.
>
> Brute War Chieftains are the highest rank? Yes, let’s ignore the Jiralhanae Army Commanders (implied to be higher ranked, much more rare) and the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae why don’t we. A let’s also ignore that all the higher Elite ranks are either naval related, political or titles (Supreme Commander, which still falls under the Zealot classification, shipmaster, which could be either general, chieftain or zealot, Field Marshall which is again, zealot, Arbiter, which is more of a title than a rank, and Imperial Admiral which is a naval rank and a title).
You really like brutes, don’t you?
I have explained about the cutscene vs novels on your other post, I will not rewrite here.
I forgot about the army commanders, and got war chieftan and chieftan of the Jiralhanae mixed up, though the chieftan of the Jiralhanae would still be a war chieftan. Also, as you have mentioned, the rank Zealot encompasses so many sub ranks that until you specify which one you are talking about, it will be nearly impossible to decide which would win.
You asked a question, but you seem to not be pleased with the answers you have got.
Elites beat Brutes, therefore Zealots beat Chieftains.
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> > > > 2533274926227685;8:
> > > > > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
> >
> >
> > Please provide a source stating that cutscenes are “sped up” and the novels take precedence over cutscenes and cinematics. In fact, please provide a reason why a single writer with a pen takes precedence over a team of writers, program,era, directors and artists spending a tremendous amount of money, time and effort into these cutscenes/cinematics.
> >
> > Brute War Chieftains are the highest rank? Yes, let’s ignore the Jiralhanae Army Commanders (implied to be higher ranked, much more rare) and the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae why don’t we. A let’s also ignore that all the higher Elite ranks are either naval related, political or titles (Supreme Commander, which still falls under the Zealot classification, shipmaster, which could be either general, chieftain or zealot, Field Marshall which is again, zealot, Arbiter, which is more of a title than a rank, and Imperial Admiral which is a naval rank and a title).
>
>
> You really like brutes, don’t you?
>
> I have explained about the cutscene vs novels on your other post, I will not rewrite here.
>
> I forgot about the army commanders, and got war chieftan and chieftan of the Jiralhanae mixed up, though the chieftan of the Jiralhanae would still be a war chieftan. Also, as you have mentioned, the rank Zealot encompasses so many sub ranks that until you specify which one you are talking about, it will be nearly impossible to decide which would win.
>
> You asked a question, but you seem to not be pleased with the answers you have got.
This is really interesting.
If the Zealot was the Arbiter, I got for him but I would go Brute since they have a hammer.
> 2533274926227685;6:
> > 2533274972631064;5:
> > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
>
>
> Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
>
> And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
>
> Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
Blame 343i for everything you said, lol. Elites were incredibly intelligent under Bungie’s domain.
> 2533274829733449;15:
> > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> >
> >
> > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> >
> > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> >
> > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
>
>
> Blame 343i for everything you said, lol. Elites were incredibly intelligent under Bungie’s domain.
I remember Halo Reach Zealots in the cinematics. They are so smart and cool.
> 2533274829733449;15:
> > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > .
>
>
> Blame 343i for everything you said, lol. Elites were incredibly intelligent under Bungie’s domain.
There is an in-universe explanation. Jul 'Mdama promoted many sangheili in his command to the rank of zealot who would never have been worthy before.
> 2533274978302173;11:
> > 2533274926227685;10:
> > > 2533274978302173;9:
> > > > 2533274926227685;8:
> > > > > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
> >
> >
> > Please provide a source stating that cutscenes are “sped up” and the novels take precedence over cutscenes and cinematics. In fact, please provide a reason why a single writer with a pen takes precedence over a team of writers, program,era, directors and artists spending a tremendous amount of money, time and effort into these cutscenes/cinematics.
> >
> > Brute War Chieftains are the highest rank? Yes, let’s ignore the Jiralhanae Army Commanders (implied to be higher ranked, much more rare) and the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae why don’t we. A let’s also ignore that all the higher Elite ranks are either naval related, political or titles (Supreme Commander, which still falls under the Zealot classification, shipmaster, which could be either general, chieftain or zealot, Field Marshall which is again, zealot, Arbiter, which is more of a title than a rank, and Imperial Admiral which is a naval rank and a title).
>
>
> You really like brutes, don’t you?
>
> I have explained about the cutscene vs novels on your other post, I will not rewrite here.
>
> I forgot about the army commanders, and got war chieftan and chieftan of the Jiralhanae mixed up, though the chieftan of the Jiralhanae would still be a war chieftan. Also, as you have mentioned, the rank Zealot encompasses so many sub ranks that until you specify which one you are talking about, it will be nearly impossible to decide which would win.
>
> You asked a question, but you seem to not be pleased with the answers you have got.
I don’t know how exactly you got that from my post, but admittedly, yes, i like Brutes. However my judgement on the outcome of this debate has more to do with a logical basis rather than a particular bias.
How is the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae equivalent to a War Chieftain? War Chieftains are in charge of entire packs, while the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae is a title for the Chieftain in charge of all the Jiralhanae. Zealots on the other hand are a military order encompassing high ranking Sangheili, and should honestly not be difficult to judge upon the Zealot’s skill. Unless you are somehow assuming that I’m placing a Naval Commander against a Warrior experienced with ground combat (which I’m not).
First off, I made a debate thread, not simple question thread. Second, the responses so far were mostly what I expected.
> 2535445800682170;12:
> Elites beat Brutes, therefore Zealots beat Chieftains.
Is there anything supporting that particular statement? Actually, now that I think about it I recall that in Halo: Broken Circle a Sangheili Field Commander fought against a naked Jiralhanae Captain and lost, despite wielding two energy swords and wounding the Brute numerous times (even partially exposing his ribs).
> 2533274926227685;18:
> > 2533274978302173;11:
> > > 2533274926227685;10:
> > > > 2533274978302173;9:
> > > > > 2533274926227685;8:
> > > > > > > 2533274926227685;6:
> > > > > > > > 2533274972631064;5:
> > > > > > > > A Jiralhanae is only brute force, a Zealot is a talented warrior. I say that the Sangheili could defeat the Jiralhanae
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zealot’s are talented warriors? Tell me, how successful were they when Fireteam Osiris battled them in halo 5, hospices full were a number of these Zealots with the protection of Jul 'Mdama? May I remind you that one of these Zealot charged at Vale (brute force) and later fell off the edge, instead of doing the intelligent thing and using his superior weapon (The Carbine) against the Spartan. How about that time when Sangheili honour guards charged at three Spartans with nothing but spears, despite having active camouflage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And of course, there’s also the fact that there are many Jiralhanae Chieftains that do employ cunning and prove to be intelligent such as Cethegus and Castor.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Besides which, skill and intelligence aren’t the only factors here. There’s also the equipment to consider. The Brute himself both have superior weapons (Brute shot is a grenade launcher and the Gravity Hammer can easily send the Elite flying) and equipment, including energy shielding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In 'Mdama’s Covenant however, Zealots are far more involved with religious and political matters, so comparing a Hesduros Zealot to a Chieftain is slightly unfair, also due to the fact most Zealots from Hesduros saw very little combat, that would also give an unfair edge to a chieftain. However comparing a Zealot who participated in the human Covenant war, say ones from the Devoted Sentries would be more balanced. Its pretty hard to say, but it’s really going to be down to which combatant is more competent, yes there are some moronic Sangheili (though to be fair I think the reason the Honour Guards didn’t engage while in active camouflage was due to honour), yet you must consider the fact that there are many that are incredibly skilled warriors, namely Gek 'Lhar, who has killed multiple Spartans, and Thel 'Lodamee slaying a Spartan II. There will always be exceptional and unexceptional warriors within each species, so saying an entire species is inept is quite ludicrous. Purely through bias I would say the Zealot, however, in cannon Plasma Rifle’s are incredibly dangerous weapons so I would imagine the Zealot would reduce the Chieftain into molten slag as it charges towards him.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Problem is that I highly doubt that all of Jul’s Zealots are solely composed of Hesduros Sangheili, especially considering that many of Jul’s Covenant hail from a variety of worlds such as Sanghelios and Malarok, both of which would be quite experienced with battle. And considering the nature of the Sangheili and the flaws of the Covenant (made up of a bunch of ministries attempting to one up one another and constantly dealing with civil war and piracy), I also doubt that the Hesduros Sangheili weren’t inexperienced with combat.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that to claim that an entire species is “composed of nothing but idiots” is downright disgusting and despite which the majority of the time many people claim (especially here on waypoint) that the Brutes are composed of such. I listed those examples to show that the Elites are not immune to these sorts of remarks (like saying how the Elite would just simply charge at the Brute with a sword while screaming at the top of his lungs) and these particular remarks is not exactly an effective method to use in debates, in fact they should be left out completely.
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually, I doubt the Plasma Rifle would do anything but annoy the Chieftain due to its (absurdly powerful) energy shielding. In Contact Harvest, Maccabeus, a Jiralhanae War Chieftain, managed to withstand the concentrated firepower of 24 Marines firing upon it with MA5Bs and BR55s (this shows that the War Chieftain’s shielding had withstood over a megajoule or two of kinetic energy), and later shrugged off fire from a Warthog’s chain gun (a feat that is later replicated by a Jiralhanae Major in that same novel, and a Jiralhanae Chieftain in Halo: Initiation). On the other hand, the Plasma Rifle, going with most cutscene/cinematic feats, the Plasma Rifle isn’t THAT powerful (single to low double digit kilojoules of energy), and several feats of the “high end” depictions are from The Cole Protocol, where the Plasma Rifle was modified under the orders of Truth, and some of the Nylund novels where Plasma Rifle’s were at times brutal, but even so, there are more depictions (cutscenes/cinematics) and even the completely absurd Bungie stats supportive the idea that Plasma Rifles are not as powerful as you say. Remember how 343 states that everything is canon (minus gameplay), right? Hey, if 343 decides to make a canon policy that states that fancy stats or fluff text take precedence over in-game cutscenes/artistic license, I’m up for it. Until then, plasma rifle depictions from cutscenes are just as valid as the ones from the novels.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’m sorry to be that guy but I have to correct you: novels have much higher relevance than cutscenes and cinematics, which are speeded up so as to not get boring. I believe this has already been stated multiple times. Also, comparing a war chieftan (highest brute rank) to a zealot (one of the highest, but not the highest elite rank) is quite unfair.
> >
> >
> > You really like brutes, don’t you?
> >
> > I have explained about the cutscene vs novels on your other post, I will not rewrite here.
> >
> > I forgot about the army commanders, and got war chieftan and chieftan of the Jiralhanae mixed up, though the chieftan of the Jiralhanae would still be a war chieftan. Also, as you have mentioned, the rank Zealot encompasses so many sub ranks that until you specify which one you are talking about, it will be nearly impossible to decide which would win.
> >
> > You asked a question, but you seem to not be pleased with the answers you have got.
>
>
> I don’t know how exactly you got that from my post, but admittedly, yes, i like Brutes. However my judgement on the outcome of this debate has more to do with a logical basis rather than a particular bias.
>
> How is the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae equivalent to a War Chieftain? War Chieftains are in charge of entire packs, while the Chieftain of the Jiralhanae is a title for the Chieftain in charge of all the Jiralhanae. Zealots on the other hand are a military order encompassing high ranking Sangheili, and should honestly not be difficult to judge upon the Zealot’s skill. Unless you are somehow assuming that I’m placing a Naval Commander against a Warrior experienced with ground combat (which I’m not).
>
> First off, I made a debate thread, not simple question thread. Second, the responses so far were mostly what I expected.
Chieftan of the Jiralhanae is more a title than an official rank, as the chieftan would only have a certain amount of power since they joined the covenant, whereas before they would be in charge of all. I’m not trying to say war chieftan is an equivalent rank, however the chieftan of the Jiralhanae is still a chieftan, like how a fleet admiral is still and admiral. Zealots have a lot of variation in terms of skill and even weaponry, and the zealots that are present in the current era (halo 5 guardians) are significantly outclassed by pre great schism zealots.
I merely assumed it was a question, since you didn’t give an opinion until people started answering, and then it looked like you wanted the brute to win