JIP < Match Forfeiting or Punish Quitters...

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Halo 4’s JIP was an attempt to fix uneven teams due to disconnects and quitting. The JIP system made finding matches (for me at least) very annoying since I would be commonly placed mid-match on the losing team. Starting each match fresh was something I liked in Halo but since JIP was added its been a turn off for me.

It sucks.

Instead of JIP, Halo 5 should have a different system to fix uneven teams. Either have the players on the losing team have the option to forfeit the match or be a lot more tough on players who quit constantly. Thoughts?

2

I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.

I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.

When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.

Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.

3

> 2533274829129180;2:
> I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
>
> I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
>
> When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
>
> Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.

If you can’t differentiate between quitting and connection loss, how would you enforce a probation?

JIP should be optional for customs/social. But I agree it breaks ranked play. They should be a better method for handling/detecting quitters over punishing others. Too often people quit, and with the current rank system, it hurts the losing team - either they win after the quitter(s) leave on either team, and get lower rewards for overcoming odds, or more often get destroyed and lose their stats (most cases). Really, the only gametype that I’ve seen uneven teams (fewer players) win consistently in is Swat, and for obvious reasons (number of targets available). Unless a system can perfectly detect quitters, or would be hard to implement any punishment due to false positives. If too many people with shoddy connections lag out and get kicked out of mm, players will jump ship. But if nothing is done, then the quitters win either way. It’s a lose lose situation that cloud computing and dedicated servers might be able to help more (or at least some sort of check in the menu for people quitting through the interface).

4

> 2533274829129180;2:
> I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
>
> I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
>
> When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
>
> Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.

You should still be penalised for disconnecting. No matter the reason why it happened, you left your team a man down. If you didn’t penalise disconnections people would just turn their router off if they wanted to quit.

5

There is a variety of fixes we could (hopefully) see in matchmaking. I like the probation idea mentioned. If they have JIP, the person joining should be given incentive for jointing a match that will probably be lost. Like give a JIP bonus or something. I don’t have a concrete fix to this problem, so hopefully 343i can fix it.

6

> 2535445272577794;4:
> > 2533274829129180;2:
> > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> >
> > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> >
> > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> >
> > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
>
>
>
> You should still be penalised for disconnecting. No matter the reason why it happened, you left your team a man down. If you didn’t penalise disconnections people would just turn their router off if they wanted to quit.

Sometimes you can’t help the fact you disconnect from games. I couldn’t help the fact my dad worked his job over a computer, so every time he used his computer when I was mid game, I would lag-out, and lose rightfully earned experience because of it. And that’s why I am saying make they need probations work universally, not just for quitters, but for disconnectors as well.

7

> 2535458386964330;3:
> > 2533274829129180;2:
> > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> >
> > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> >
> > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> >
> > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
>
>
> If you can’t differentiate between quitting and connection loss, how would you enforce a probation?
>
> JIP should be optional for customs/social. But I agree it breaks ranked play. They should be a better method for handling/detecting quitters over punishing others. Too often people quit, and with the current rank system, it hurts the losing team - either they win after the quitter(s) leave on either team, and get lower rewards for overcoming odds, or more often get destroyed and lose their stats (most cases). Really, the only gametype that I’ve seen uneven teams (fewer players) win consistently in is Swat, and for obvious reasons (number of targets available). Unless a system can perfectly detect quitters, or would be hard to implement any punishment due to false positives. If too many people with shoddy connections lag out and get kicked out of mm, players will jump ship. But if nothing is done, then the quitters win either way. It’s a lose lose situation that cloud computing and dedicated servers might be able to help more (or at least some sort of check in the menu for people quitting through the interface).

You missed the point I was trying to make.

Probation in Reach was universal, as in, it didn’t matter if you quit or disconnected, you got probation regardless.
Its nice to have, versus just losing experience that you rightfully earned via the award winning tactics you used in previous victories.
And besides, probation made frequent quitters wait before they joined games, where as quitters in Halo 3 could quit all they want, and the casuals who didn’t care about their rank or W/L got away with it, as much as they pleased. Halo Reach forced frequent quitters to wait HOURS before they could play again, and I know people who that happened to all the time, and they said it taught them to never quit.

8

> 2533274829129180;6:
> > 2535445272577794;4:
> > > 2533274829129180;2:
> > > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> > >
> > > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> > >
> > > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> > >
> > > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You should still be penalised for disconnecting. No matter the reason why it happened, you left your team a man down. If you didn’t penalise disconnections people would just turn their router off if they wanted to quit.
>
>
> Sometimes you can’t help the fact you disconnect from games. I couldn’t help the fact my dad worked his job over a computer, so every time he used his computer when I was mid game, I would lag-out, and lose rightfully earned experience because of it. And that’s why I am saying make they need probations work universally, not just for quitters, but for disconnectors as well.

Ok, that’s not your teammates’ fault. It’s yours. You shouldn’t play when your dad was home or you and your dad should communicate better.

9

For social games, join in progress is fine, and only habitual quitting should be punished

For ranked:

  1. Quitting should be punished and habitual quitting should get you banned
  2. Pre-game lobby should hide rank and player stats, post-game carnage report can show rank & player stats (too many people were pre-game quitting upon seeing someones rank and/or stats)
  3. Ranking should factor in team balance throughout the entirety of the game (including afk players)
  4. There needs to be a forfeit game option if you are 2+ players down
10

JIP should be optional.

JIP if implemented correctly can be great, but should be optional.

JIP should only be available for Social Playlist, not RANKED.

As quit penalties for Social Playlist should be greatly reduced to that of quitting in Ranked Playlist.

11
  • No JIP in ranked playlists at all
  • 100% >OPTIONAL<
  • Reach probation system for quitting in ranked

If it’s gonna be in Halo, I’m not going to use it. It doesn’t belong in ranked playlists at all because losing games that you joined halfway through is more unfair than losing because you searched solo and your teammates quit. If I didn’t get to vote/veto for the map and gametype and wasn’t there for the initial failure of a team that leads to rage quitting then I am in no way responsible for that team’s failure.

12

> 2535445272577794;8:
> > 2533274829129180;6:
> > > 2535445272577794;4:
> > > > 2533274829129180;2:
> > > > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> > > >
> > > > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> > > >
> > > > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You should still be penalised for disconnecting. No matter the reason why it happened, you left your team a man down. If you didn’t penalise disconnections people would just turn their router off if they wanted to quit.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sometimes you can’t help the fact you disconnect from games. I couldn’t help the fact my dad worked his job over a computer, so every time he used his computer when I was mid game, I would lag-out, and lose rightfully earned experience because of it. And that’s why I am saying make they need probations work universally, not just for quitters, but for disconnectors as well.
>
>
> Ok, that’s not your teammates’ fault. It’s yours. You shouldn’t play when your dad was home or you and your dad should communicate better.

Its not about communication at all.

I would be mid game and my dad would need to use the computer because he needs to get his work done. I couldn’t just tell him to wait because I wanted to win my game. If he gets on, he gets on until he’s done with his work. There’s no “ifs, ands, or buts” about it. He needs to work so he can obtain money to keep our household balanced, therefore he has a priority.

Also, just because he’s not home, doesn’t mean he couldn’t just come home any second and start up his computer. He doesn’t care about video games whatsoever, in fact, he really hates them, so why should he have to call me every time he arrives before coming back to use a computer just so I can play my game. You just can’t help it sometimes.

13

> 2533274829129180;7:
> > 2535458386964330;3:
> > > 2533274829129180;2:
> > > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> > >
> > > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> > >
> > > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> > >
> > > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you can’t differentiate between quitting and connection loss, how would you enforce a probation?
> >
> > JIP should be optional for customs/social. But I agree it breaks ranked play. They should be a better method for handling/detecting quitters over punishing others. Too often people quit, and with the current rank system, it hurts the losing team - either they win after the quitter(s) leave on either team, and get lower rewards for overcoming odds, or more often get destroyed and lose their stats (most cases). Really, the only gametype that I’ve seen uneven teams (fewer players) win consistently in is Swat, and for obvious reasons (number of targets available). Unless a system can perfectly detect quitters, or would be hard to implement any punishment due to false positives. If too many people with shoddy connections lag out and get kicked out of mm, players will jump ship. But if nothing is done, then the quitters win either way. It’s a lose lose situation that cloud computing and dedicated servers might be able to help more (or at least some sort of check in the menu for people quitting through the interface).
>
>
> You missed the point I was trying to make.
>
> Probation in Reach was universal, as in, it didn’t matter if you quit or disconnected, you got probation regardless.
> Its nice to have, versus just losing experience that you rightfully earned via the award winning tactics you used in previous victories.
> And besides, probation made frequent quitters wait before they joined games, where as quitters in Halo 3 could quit all they want, and the casuals who didn’t care about their rank or W/L got away with it, as much as they pleased. Halo Reach forced frequent quitters to wait HOURS before they could play again, and I know people who that happened to all the time, and they said it taught them to never quit.

That is where my question came in, then. If you punish people for a bad connection, then you force them to wait hours to play for something beyond their control. I have a rock steady connection (Google Fiber), bu I have been kicked out of MCC/the beta during the game setup. That could be a server issue, and not my connection, but according to this system, I would be penalized and unable to play due to shoddy netcode?

Many quitters would still quit - or worse yet, they would do the next worse thing and stay in the match but not pkay/team kill players to be kicked from the game. Those are all situations that probation helps deter, yet at the same time encourages as well. I’d rather be a player down than have a player waiting a match out or giving the other team free kills.

14

> 2535458386964330;13:
> > 2533274829129180;7:
> > > 2535458386964330;3:
> > > > 2533274829129180;2:
> > > > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> > > >
> > > > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> > > >
> > > > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you can’t differentiate between quitting and connection loss, how would you enforce a probation?
> > >
> > > JIP should be optional for customs/social. But I agree it breaks ranked play. They should be a better method for handling/detecting quitters over punishing others. Too often people quit, and with the current rank system, it hurts the losing team - either they win after the quitter(s) leave on either team, and get lower rewards for overcoming odds, or more often get destroyed and lose their stats (most cases). Really, the only gametype that I’ve seen uneven teams (fewer players) win consistently in is Swat, and for obvious reasons (number of targets available). Unless a system can perfectly detect quitters, or would be hard to implement any punishment due to false positives. If too many people with shoddy connections lag out and get kicked out of mm, players will jump ship. But if nothing is done, then the quitters win either way. It’s a lose lose situation that cloud computing and dedicated servers might be able to help more (or at least some sort of check in the menu for people quitting through the interface).
> >
> >
> >
> > You missed the point I was trying to make.
> >
> > Probation in Reach was universal, as in, it didn’t matter if you quit or disconnected, you got probation regardless.
> > Its nice to have, versus just losing experience that you rightfully earned via the award winning tactics you used in previous victories.
> > And besides, probation made frequent quitters wait before they joined games, where as quitters in Halo 3 could quit all they want, and the casuals who didn’t care about their rank or W/L got away with it, as much as they pleased. Halo Reach forced frequent quitters to wait HOURS before they could play again, and I know people who that happened to all the time, and they said it taught them to never quit.
>
>
> That is where my question came in, then. If you punish people for a bad connection, then you force them to wait hours to play for something beyond their control. I have a rock steady connection (Google Fiber), bu I have been kicked out of MCC/the beta during the game setup. That could be a server issue, and not my connection, but according to this system, I would be penalized and unable to play due to shoddy netcode?
>
> Many quitters would still quit - or worse yet, they would do the next worse thing and stay in the match but not pkay/team kill players to be kicked from the game. Those are all situations that probation helps deter, yet at the same time encourages as well. I’d rather be a player down than have a player waiting a match out or giving the other team free kills.

That’s a problem that just can’t be helped, poor netcode is something you should blame the devs for, entirely.

That problem will be consistent no matter what a developer does. You can’t help it when you have poor sports on your team.
That’s also something Halo 3 and Reach were great for, because they kicked you from a match for being inactive for more than a couple of minutes.

The thing about quitters that people need to start understanding, is that its one big moral grey area that has many aspects that can’t be helped. That’s why Reach’s probation system was great, because it adressed more problems than de-ranking did, and with less drawbacks.

15

I want a leave ban similar to what Reach did but I also want JiP to remain. Halo’s biggest weakness has always been the people that play it. Don’t feel like playing that map or you didn’t get to the tank first? Just quit and screw your team to a 4v3… (which of course becomes a 4v2 or 4v1 as your team mates cut their losses and quit early)

Some time after the TU to halo 4 I found JiP to be much more bearable, I don’t believe I have been placed in a match that was even halfway over since around that time.

Edit: Didn’t think to mention this, but of course no JiP for any Ranked playlist. Simply have stricter quitting penalties/possibly deranking if even slightly habitual.

16

JIP needed in Halo 5 (and also friendly fire off, for obvious reasons…)

17

> 2533274829129180;14:
> > 2535458386964330;13:
> > > 2533274829129180;7:
> > > > 2535458386964330;3:
> > > > > 2533274829129180;2:
> > > > > I personally liked Halo Reach’s idea for quitters by putting them on probation and them punishing them for breaking it by forcing them to not play matchmaking for a certain amount of time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn’t like Halo 3 and H2A’s system of losing rank upon quitting, because the game can’t differentiate from people who quit and those who get disconnected by faulty internet.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I was growing up with Halo 3, my family had the worst of dial-up internet, so I got disconnected from online games frequently, and started losing experience more than gaining. Your victories that you suffered for shouldn’t be overridden by being demoted for faulty internet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 5: Guardians should feature probation again, but make them have to wait even longer for each successive quit they attempt, like, between 24-32 hours, maximum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you can’t differentiate between quitting and connection loss, how would you enforce a probation?
> > > >
> > > > JIP should be optional for customs/social. But I agree it breaks ranked play. They should be a better method for handling/detecting quitters over punishing others. Too often people quit, and with the current rank system, it hurts the losing team - either they win after the quitter(s) leave on either team, and get lower rewards for overcoming odds, or more often get destroyed and lose their stats (most cases). Really, the only gametype that I’ve seen uneven teams (fewer players) win consistently in is Swat, and for obvious reasons (number of targets available). Unless a system can perfectly detect quitters, or would be hard to implement any punishment due to false positives. If too many people with shoddy connections lag out and get kicked out of mm, players will jump ship. But if nothing is done, then the quitters win either way. It’s a lose lose situation that cloud computing and dedicated servers might be able to help more (or at least some sort of check in the menu for people quitting through the interface).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You missed the point I was trying to make.
> > >
> > > Probation in Reach was universal, as in, it didn’t matter if you quit or disconnected, you got probation regardless.
> > > Its nice to have, versus just losing experience that you rightfully earned via the award winning tactics you used in previous victories.
> > > And besides, probation made frequent quitters wait before they joined games, where as quitters in Halo 3 could quit all they want, and the casuals who didn’t care about their rank or W/L got away with it, as much as they pleased. Halo Reach forced frequent quitters to wait HOURS before they could play again, and I know people who that happened to all the time, and they said it taught them to never quit.
> >
> >
> >
> > That is where my question came in, then. If you punish people for a bad connection, then you force them to wait hours to play for something beyond their control. I have a rock steady connection (Google Fiber), bu I have been kicked out of MCC/the beta during the game setup. That could be a server issue, and not my connection, but according to this system, I would be penalized and unable to play due to shoddy netcode?
> >
> > Many quitters would still quit - or worse yet, they would do the next worse thing and stay in the match but not pkay/team kill players to be kicked from the game. Those are all situations that probation helps deter, yet at the same time encourages as well. I’d rather be a player down than have a player waiting a match out or giving the other team free kills.
>
>
> That’s a problem that just can’t be helped, poor netcode is something you should blame the devs for, entirely.
>
> That problem will be consistent no matter what a developer does. You can’t help it when you have poor sports on your team.
> That’s also something Halo 3 and Reach were great for, because they kicked you from a match for being inactive for more than a couple of minutes.
>
> The thing about quitters that people need to start understanding, is that its one big moral grey area that has many aspects that can’t be helped. That’s why Reach’s probation system was great, because it adressed more problems than de-ranking did, and with less drawbacks.

While I agree in implementing a more punishing system for quitters/bad players (team killers/kill givers/etc), I am against a system that will punish innocent players. Simply put - if anything happens to not let people play the game they paid for without their personal wrong doing, the developer will lose players and upset their customers.

I agree 100% that shoddy code is a dev/console network problem (the azure cloud is as much to blame as 343 is for MCC/beta matchmaking issues/balanced teams/etc). Hoever, you can’t put players on probation for glitches. I’ve had every xbox model to date (og, 360, one), and all have had network issues or connection hickups when my net remained stable. Consumers will not out up with bans/probation against them for a business/tech problem. That is bad for business, and these cases rarely come from the exploit community (the quitters).

Idle booting/quit bans/punishment for habbituals is a good idea. The idles are ones typically associated with boost crowds as well, but again, a gray area as well.