Its time for an update to the melee system

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

The Halo franchise has been in the works for over a decade and we’ve seen only minor changes to the melee system. In Reach bleed-through was taken away, melees were buffed to a 2 hit kill, and assassinations were added.

With each new innovation we have to be careful to ensure that the changes made fit within Halo; that is they need to be properly balanced, promote the skill gap as well as even starts.

I’ve got a couple of ideas that I believe fit the bill:

A) Different Weapons have Different Melee Properties

IMO weapons should be more unique and fill specific roles within the sandbox. I believe that CQC weapons should have an advantage over ranged weapons in a melee situation.

I propose that melee traits be unique to weapon classes as follows (scale 1-5):

CQC Assault Weapons (AR, Storm Rifle)
Speed = 4
Damage = 3

Mid Range Weapons (BR, Carbine)
Speed = 3
Damage = 3

Secondary Weapons (Magnum, Boltshot)
Speed = 5
Damage = 1

Heavy Weapons (Rockets, Splaser)
Speed = 1
Damage = 5

Sniper Weapons
Speed = 1
Damage = 3

Shotguns
Speed = 4
Damage = 4

Other weapons will have unique traits. Here are a few examples:

Needler (Melee with Needles)
Speed = 2
Damage = 5

Brute Shot
Speed = 3
Damage = 5

Railgun
Speed = 2
Damage = 3

B) 2 Different Melees

This idea stems from assassinations in Reach. In a CQC situation players will have the choice between a quick melee and a slower but more powerful melee. To perform a quick melee you simply tap the melee button, whereas you have to hold it for the slower one. I believe this will promote the skill gap as players will have to recognize which melee will better suit their situation.

Scenario 1:

Jimmy sees Tom and begins to pepper him with AR fire. Tom quickly reacts and charges Jimmy while spraying his AR. When the two are in close enough proximity, Jimmy taps his melee button and Tom opts for the stronger melee. A few moments later Jimmy activates a Hologram to humiliate the now lifeless Tom, and he runs off.

Jimmy won the battle because he did enough damage before getting into melee range that a quick melee would do enough damage to kill Tom. Since Tom started firing later he needed to hit Jimmy with a powerful melee to bring him down. While both parties chose the appropriate response, Jimmy was more aware of his surroundings so he survived to fight another battle.

Scenario 2:

Tom and Lance are both moving to the center of the map to pick up Rockets which will be spawning in 7 seconds. They spot each other and open fire with their BR’s. Both Tom and Lance get 2 shots off before engaging in melee combat. Lance opts for a quick strike while Tom brings the haymaker. Tom continues on his way to retrieve Rockets, while a frustrated Lance waits to respawn.

I’ve noticed in a few other threads that people sometimes stumble on terminology, so I defined bleed-through for any one who may wonder what it is:

Defintion of “Bleed Through”

The total damage of a combat action (melee or gun shot) will always deal full damage regardless of shield strength.

Here’s an example: Lets say Spartans have 10 shield points and 10 health points by default. Lopez melees Caboose, who at the time had 60% of his shields remaining. Since bleed-through is enabled Caboose loses all of his shield and 40% of his health as a result of the impact.

2

Your ideas are definitely good but I honestly see a new melee system causing more problems than solutions. These seem like changes that don’t really belong in a Halo game and would change gameplay too drastically (exactly like sprint). I personally don’t see much wrong with the traditional melee system that would require a drastic overall.

3

I can see my first idea (A) as being a little out there, but I definitely believe that a 2 melee system would help to increase the skill gap, especially if there are no control issues (Assassinate vs. Beat Down).

4

As someone who advocated a different melee system for some time now, I would be happy with either or both of these changes. I thought Bungie would take some lessons learned from ONI and incorporate them into a future Halo game, but they never wanted to or got around to it. I still think there is potential there.

I would like to see a more complex CQB that really shows off some slick player model moves. I’m picturing a sequence of 2-3 button presses that allows you to deliver a handful of punches or kicks, or parry said attacks.

This is a big change to Halo, so I advocate small tweaks. Maybe a punch and a pistol/BR-whip… nothing crazy. No combo breakers or that ilk. The entire transaction should only take 2-3 seconds, not much longer than the current melee/assassination setup.

The player camera would pan out for the duration of the engagement, showing you both combatants as they throw punches or wield their weapons. Very similar to Reach and Halo 4’s assassination cameras. What’s great about this is the chance for the player models to get creative and athletic. Who doesn’t love the various assassinations in Halo 4? Why not expand upon that in Halo 5.

Above all else, it needs to be done carefully. Nothing over the top. No crazy point modifiers like Halo 4 had. No Street Fighter imitations. Just some Mjolnir-powered fisticuffs or rifle butting.

I think it has significant potential and will make CQC significantly more interesting without sacrificing core gameplay.

5

I think these ideas are really great, the melee system as it is works but it is a little dull. It should definitely go through a lot of testing to make sure it works well though. Your suggestions would be a good place to start from.

6

There is already some form of a 2 melee system in, but you need to pick up a weapon that sacrifices the shot in order to do so.

My 2 cents: If there is a 2 melee option and there is no difference in the timing of it, the weaker option IS going to be badly unused.

7

In Campaign:

-bleedthrough is a must
-the lunge distance should be bigger too
-melees should be fast (thank Halo 4 for that)
-meleeing an enemy in certain places (e.g. head, legs) should yield a distinct response animation and/or have an effect over time. If I were to melee an unshielded Elite in the leg, he should stop in place for a few seconds and/or should move slower or display a limp

8

I think it would be cool as an effect. If you had a needler and went to melee someone instead of using the butt of the gun as it is now. Instead you’d hit them with the top of the gun, the part holding the needles. This would cause a one hit kill by detonating the whole clip of needles.
To make this fair the needler would be out of ammo, and maybe some splash damage due to a close proximity explosion.

9

> I think it would be cool as an effect. If you had a needler and went to melee someone instead of using the butt of the gun as it is now. Instead you’d hit them with the top of the gun, the part holding the needles. This would cause a one hit kill by detonating the whole clip of needles.
> To make this fair the needler would be out of ammo, and maybe some splash damage due to a close proximity explosion.

It’d definitely be epic, but I wouldn’t want the Needler to always yield that result. Also, the detonation time would have to be a tad bit delayed or you’d be killing yourself with the enemy.

10

Halo’s melee system could definitely do with an update, but I don’t think either of your solutions will fly particularly well, OP. The first adds too much complexity to the wrong area of Halo: it’s weapon sandbox. The second is too simple; it’s basically taking the assassination mechanic and applying it to every angle a player could attack from. I think, if Halo’s melee combat system is to change at all, it should focus on a player’s speed, and the direction they’re moving in (a la: Skyrim). It would break down something like this:

  • Forward + Base player speed + Melee = Normal melee.

  • Forward + Sprint + Melee = Flying kick w/ one-handed and light two-handed weapons, or slam w/ heavy two-handed weapons + Knockback + Temporary stun.

  • Strafing left/right + Base player speed + Melee = Left/Right hook w/ one-handed weapon, or left/right haymaker w/ two-handed weapon + Enemy player knocked to side.

  • Backward + Base player speed + Melee = Parry (if timed correctly) + Temporary stun, or normal melee .

  • Backward + Base player speed + Melee (hold) = Block (nullifies knockback and stun effects, reduces incoming melee damage).

11

Good Ideas but to be honest I wouldn’t do that. I think the melee system is fine as is. If it isn’t broken don’t fix it.

12

> I think it would be cool as an effect. If you had a needler and went to melee someone instead of using the butt of the gun as it is now. Instead you’d hit them with the top of the gun, the part holding the needles. This would cause a one hit kill by detonating the whole clip of needles.
> To make this fair the needler would be out of ammo, and maybe some splash damage due to a close proximity explosion.

In CE the Needler’s melee sometimes behaves like this, albeit without the supercombine. If option B were implemented, the supercombine melee could be the more powerful of the 2 melee attacks. This would also require option A to also be implemented as not all weapons would have this ability, however not all weapons would need to have unique melee traits.

> Good Ideas but to be honest I wouldn’t do that. I think the melee system is fine as is. If it isn’t broken don’t fix it.

Fair enough, it seems you believe 343 should fix the ‘broken’ aspects before implementing new features and I can understand why. That being said they have a little over a year left before launch and I think they should at least experiment with some changes to the melee system. I believe this could really improve the game by increasing both the depth of combat as well as the skill gap.

Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion thus far.

  • CAVEMANcr

Note: Halo XB1 launch date is unconfirmed.

13

With melee, I say keep it simple. I’m all for updating it, maybe give us an option if we actually want to assassinate someone. There are times I just tap the melee button and the assassination animation goes into effect. Allow us to turn off assassinations. Other than that, keep it simple. Hit and split, that’s how I roll…

14

Interesting… but I will say that it could be easily abused, I think that they should fix the already present flaws and then worry about the new stuff…

15

Halo 2 and Halo 3 have fine melee systems in their own ways. Things started to get awful with Reach. Halo 4’s is okay, not great, but just okay. Halo 5 should aim to be like Halo 2 or 3 in terms of melee.

16

> Halo 2 and Halo 3 have fine melee systems in their own ways. Things started to get awful with Reach. Halo 4’s is okay, not great, but just okay. Halo 5 should aim to be like Halo 2 or 3 in terms of melee.

How did the melee system get awful with Reach? If anything Halo 3’s sucked due to the immense number of people trading kills by melee.

17

Could be in my head, but I felt 2 and 3’s melee system was too cheap.

18

The melee system is definitely one of those things that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Making each weapon a different melee model (damage, speed) is unnecessary and possibility of creating unbalanced weapons would be that much greater.
2 hits from the front/side, 1 hit (quick hit or assassination) is works fine.

19

I don’t think anything that drastic should be applied to the melee it would do absolutely nothing but enrage the fanbase even further and 343 can’t risk doing something like that all over again. The only thing I think needs to be done to melee is to fix the lunge to a more consistent distance that isn’t as drastic and inconsistent as it was in halo 3 halo 4 was a lot more consistent but still suffered from inconsistencies

20

Most Halo games have had something similar to what you mentioned in the campaign but for multiplayer, we need something simpler. Halo is chess, not rock, paper, scissors.