It's not that it isn't "competitive" enough..

Games Other Halo
1

…it isn’t Halo enough.

> Before I “complain and bash 343” this is not related to GDC. This is not related to population. This is not just for the sake of complaining. I have yet to post my 2 cents on the situation and frankly it is too much just to add to a current thread where nobody is going to acknowledge it.

They said I could trust them. I was told Halo is back. I was told I was going to enjoy it. I forked over $60 thinking I was buying Halo. Instead I bought a hybrid of multiple FPS games with a Halo texture pack.

Do I like Halo 4? Somewhat. It doesn’t have the replay ability that Halo 3, and even Reach, have. I can play those all night. I can’t play 3 games of Halo 4 without getting bored. Hell I’m playing Lego Harry Potter right now if that helps you understand the situation.

>

I’m “forced” to play, when I play Halo 4, a game where variables overrun the core experience of Halo in general. Just sprint alone changes the pace and outcome of the gameplay. Forcing new content like that doesn’t work where the game was originally built on everyone starting off the same.

Read this thread to understand how to add new content while keeping the game at its’ core.

>

I was expecting 343 to follow and even add on to what Bungie did in terms of game options and mini games specifically towards Action Sack. Instead of adding in community gametypes we get goofy spinoffs of the “core” experience.

Maybe a mixture of FFA and Team gametypes because something like that is not playlist specific. There are a lot of mini games out there that don’t have the recognition they deserve.

Read more here

>

These are just a couple that “grind my gears” and I can probably write up more if I really wanted to.

Go for it. Say I’m complaining for the sake of complaining. Saying that doesn’t add anything to the discussion value of this thread and only takes up space for people that want to talk about the topic at hand.

2

Your quotes are broken.

3

> Your quotes are broken.

No they’re not. I use them to separate thoughts.

4

Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.

A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.

5

It’s not that it isn’t “competitive” enough, it’s that this administration falsely believes that “casual” players inherently dislike a game that is conducive to fair competition. It’s that this administration falsely believes that if you’re not very skilled at Halo, you must love randomness and the “everyone gets a ribbon” mentality.

Imagine if Team Throwdown was the only playlist in Halo 4 MM for just a couple days. Do you think that all the casuals would still complain about all the “try-hards”? No, because the skilled players would be diluted across the entire population.

When the administration corrals all the very skilled players into one corner of the game, then OF COURSE casuals are going to dislike that gametype/setting.

Tone down the randomness and “accessibility” and let casuals enjoy the richness of Halo too!

6

> Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.
>
> A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.

Thank god it’s only temporary, those maps aren’t the best, just the spawn locations alone make the playlist a big headache. Not to mention Infinity Rumble, it’s basically fiesta, just with a different name. And that’s what everyone picks.

7

> > Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.
> >
> > A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.
>
> Thank god it’s only temporary, those maps aren’t the best, just the spawn locations alone make the playlist a big headache. Not to mention Infinity Rumble, it’s basically fiesta, just with a different name. And that’s what everyone picks.

The maps in Community FFA are actually way better than the crappy maps that 343 made. I agree with you on infinity rumble. I also wish it was 6 players instead of 8. I still think it’s absolutely ridiculous that we don’t have a permanent standard FFA playlist. We should of one when the game launched.

8

> > Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.
> >
> > A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.
>
> Thank god it’s only temporary, those maps aren’t the best, just the spawn locations alone make the playlist a big headache. Not to mention Infinity Rumble, it’s basically fiesta, just with a different name. And that’s what everyone picks.

It should be temporary just because some of the maps are bad? And they are still miles ahead of most of the maps shipped with the game.

9

> > Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.
> >
> > A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.
>
> Thank god it’s only temporary, those maps aren’t the best, just the spawn locations alone make the playlist a big headache. Not to mention Infinity Rumble, it’s basically fiesta, just with a different name. And that’s what everyone picks.

Thank god? Why? Is 343 forcing you to play a playlist you don’t enjoy?

I concur with the OP. 343 seemed to try so much to appeal to fanbases besides the HALO fanbase. With all the gimmicks like ordnance drops, and progression systems. Those fanbases already have their preferred game. Whether it’s Battlefield, CoD, etc. etc. They’re just not going to switch to Halo, and even if they try it they’re not going to stick around.

343 had a fanbase already. A fanbase that was loyal to what Bungie had created. And, god knows why, they didn’t seem to use their resources to appeal to it.

I don’t absolutely hate Halo 4, but I’m not a CoD fan, I’m not a Battlefield fan. I’m not a Gears, Counterstrike, Unreal, Ghost Recon, Team Fortress, etc. etc. etc. fan. I am a HALO fan. And I would like the core of my preferred FPS to be the Halo I had come to know and love. The Halo that Bungie had done so masterfully.

10

> > > Well beyond that I don’t have much to say. Halo 4 isn’t competitive enough, nor is it Halo enough.
> > >
> > > A lot of the community maps and gametypes reflect what Halo used to be, but they are so rarely seen in matchmaking, if at all. I’m annoyed that Community Forge FFA is only a temporary playlist.
> >
> > Thank god it’s only temporary, those maps aren’t the best, just the spawn locations alone make the playlist a big headache. Not to mention Infinity Rumble, it’s basically fiesta, just with a different name. And that’s what everyone picks.
>
> It should be temporary just because some of the maps are bad? And they are still miles ahead of most of the maps shipped with the game.

your point is valid about the maps being better than the ones shipped but his point about infinity rumble being fiesta under another name is what stands out. it’s unplayable. ps please guys try to support throwdown.

11

I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.

HCE: + vehicle play
H2: + dual wielding
H3: + equipment
ODST: + firefight
Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.

Despite all this, each game has felt like just another evolution of Halo. I’m all for trying new things. Some of them stick, some of them don’t. They all contribute to the next game. Halo 5 will take lessons learned from all these games and make something unique, and hopefully – for your fanbase – something a little more familiar.

The inability for people to deal with things like sprint, jet pack, boltshot or DMR are just beyond me. It’s challenging sure but isn’t that the point?

Parity is overrated IMHO. I’ll take on a power weapon wielding foe with a loadout any day of the week. It is all the sweeter when I commence my celebratory crouching :smiley:

12

> I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.
>
> HCE: + vehicle play
> H2: + dual wielding
> H3: + equipment
> ODST: + firefight
> Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
> H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.

Halo 4’s additions were to drastic and affected gameplay more then anything else.

13

> It’s not that it isn’t “competitive” enough, it’s that this administration falsely believes that “casual” players inherently dislike a game that is conducive to fair competition. It’s that this administration falsely believes that if you’re not very skilled at Halo, you must love randomness and the “everyone gets a ribbon” mentality.
>
> Imagine if Team Throwdown was the only playlist in Halo 4 MM for just a couple days. Do you think that all the casuals would still complain about all the “try-hards”? No, because the skilled players would be diluted across the entire population.
>
> When the administration corrals all the very skilled players into one corner of the game, then OF COURSE casuals are going to dislike that gametype/setting.
>
> Tone down the randomness and “accessibility” and let casuals enjoy the richness of Halo too!

tehcncially,the old halo’s wern’t that much fair either,if you were good with a starting gun like the dmr and br you were good,experience in this case iS the advantage.

the whole randomness things like oridinance,I can live without,though if ya ask me,if they have to dumb down the loadouts for the next game,I’m fine so long as I don’t have to pick the BR/DMR as a starting gun,I simply don’t like either of those weapons.

I consider myself a Casual,and despite beleifs,I still do enjoy H4,though for the sake of being able to play with some of my freinds,I do agree that if you really think it’s not competetive freindly,then it should be : /

sprint though isn’t nessicerally that random,it made Halo a bit faster gameplay wise,without it’ll be slow.

> I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.
>
> HCE: + vehicle play
> H2: + dual wielding
> H3: + equipment
> ODST: + firefight
> Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
> H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.
>
> Despite all this, each game has felt like just another evolution of Halo. I’m all for trying new things. Some of them stick, some of them don’t. They all contribute to the next game. Halo 5 will take lessons learned from all these games and make something unique, and hopefully – for your fanbase – something a little more familiar.
>
> The inability for people to deal with things like sprint, jet pack, boltshot or DMR are just beyond me. It’s challenging sure but isn’t that the point?
>
> Parity is overrated IMHO. I’ll take on a power weapon wielding foe with a loadout any day of the week. It is all the sweeter when I commence my celebratory crouching :smiley:

I doa gree,each of the Halos has added somthing fresh,granted there some featres I wasn’t to fond of,Example:no sanghelli in gameplay,what we’ll have in the next Halo I look forward to,lets just hope for our competetive freinds that they get some of what they want to

14

It seems with Halo 4, opponents are far too predictable now. 99% of the time I can figure EXACTLY what another player is going to do. Yes in some of the other games it had similar moments, but nowhere near to this game’s percentage.

The ordnance features & detailed custom MW3 style classes have seemed to neutralize competitive gameplay. There’s no need to work hard for a killing spree because sooner or later you’ll get the 4-5 kills required for an ordnance drop, assists playing part in that too.

I don’t think it has to do with casual gamers as much as others believe.

& it’s getting old where I hear people in lobbies say that random drops are truley random. (Thus they use that package that calls out drops beforehand.) Just go to forge & check out the maps with the gametypes, you’ll see where they are & their timing.

15

> > I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.
> >
> > HCE: + vehicle play
> > H2: + dual wielding
> > H3: + equipment
> > ODST: + firefight
> > Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
> > H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.
>
> Halo 4’s additions were to drastic and affected gameplay more then anything else.

maybe, people say it need a balance, but just that ‘‘a little balance’’ nothing else

out of that i prefer to have this Halo 4 with some random stuff than another FPS with a copy-paste style
(for not saying that some FPS sometimes are like an expensive DLC)

16

> It seems with Halo 4, opponents are far too predictable now. 99% of the time I can figure EXACTLY what another player is going to do. Yes in some of the other games it had similar moments, but nowhere near to this game’s percentage.
>
> The ordnance features & detailed custom MW3 style classes have seemed to neutralize competitive gameplay. There’s no need to work hard for a killing spree because sooner or later you’ll get the 4-5 kills required for an ordnance drop, assists playing part in that too.
>
> I don’t think it has to do with casual gamers as much as others believe.
>
>
> & it’s getting old where I hear people in lobbies say that random drops are truley random. (Thus they use that package that calls out drops beforehand.) Just go to forge & check out the maps with the gametypes, you’ll see where they are & their timing.

This could be true, but I am willing to bet they are talking about personal ordinance. Unless you are in a gametype without personal ordinance. Then yea, they are out of there heads.

17

Just a question because I’m interested in your thoughts OP, but what did 343i need to do in order for them to make it more “Halo”?

18

> I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.
>
> HCE: + vehicle play
> H2: + dual wielding
> H3: + equipment
> ODST: + firefight
> Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
> H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.

See now, why did any of the games have to have a “minus” in it? Making a game “Evolved” is building off of and perfecting previous content, while adding new content. What I wish the list looked like is something more like this:

HCE: + vehicle play
H2: + vehicle play + dual wielding
H3: + vehicle play + dual wielding + equipment
ODST: + vehicle play + dual wielding + equiptment + firefight
Reach: + vehicle play + dual wielding + equipment, + firefight + armor abilities
H4: + vehicle play + dual wielding + equiptment + firefight + armor abilities + loadouts + ordinance

^ Notice that this list holds true for the first three games. Then the games started removing stuff that they could have instead kept and built on while adding new stuff.

19

> I dunno, each Halo game has brought something different to the table. Not one was the same as the previous.
>
> HCE: + vehicle play
> H2: + dual wielding
> H3: + equipment
> ODST: + firefight
> Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
> H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.
>
> Despite all this, each game has felt like just another evolution of Halo. I’m all for trying new things. Some of them stick, some of them don’t. They all contribute to the next game. Halo 5 will take lessons learned from all these games and make something unique, and hopefully – for your fanbase – something a little more familiar.
>
> The inability for people to deal with things like sprint, jet pack, boltshot or DMR are just beyond me. It’s challenging sure but isn’t that the point?
>
> Parity is overrated IMHO. I’ll take on a power weapon wielding foe with a loadout any day of the week. It is all the sweeter when I commence my celebratory crouching :smiley:

Except you are missing something…

CHANGE IS ONLY GOOD WHEN IT WORKS.

HCE: + vehicle play
H2: + dual wielding
H3: + equipment
ODST: + firefight
Reach: -dual wielding, -equipment, +armor abilities
H4: +loadouts, +ordinance.

HCE: worked.
H2: worked.
H3: worked.
ODST: worked.
Reach: failed.
H4: failed.

The whole point is to build a better sequel.

20

> & it’s getting old where I hear people in lobbies say that random drops are truley random. (Thus they use that package that calls out drops beforehand.) Just go to forge & check out the maps with the gametypes, you’ll see where they are & their timing.

The locations aren’t random.

The timers are random, there’s a minimum and maximum time, and it could be any moment between those two. The weapons chosen for that spot can also be randomized.

> sprint though isn’t nessicerally that random,it made Halo a bit faster gameplay wise,without it’ll be slow.

Make a custom game with 150% base speed and 150% damage.
Don’t allow anyone to sprint.

Then tell me it’s too slow, I’ll laugh hard. Sprint isn’t necessary at all for speeding up the game.