It's not BR starts

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Ok, so before you start with the whole, “you’re a purist’ you’re stupid, you’re killing Halo” let me start, I’m going to have a look at the other side of the spectrum, just hear me out here and then you can spam the post with you’re static opinion after understanding and reading everything I say.

  1. Team cohesion. So yes, if you match a full party of four in slayer then you will get it handed to you unless you’re in your own party or they are really bad. And no, I’m not going to make that “well it is called team slayer for a reason” argument. BR starts do allow organised teams or good players in general to go on a tear straight off spawn. But really, a good team But really, this isn’t a BR starts issue, it’s a team balance one. Other ‘competitive’ Halo’s with a skill based matchmaking system didn’t have this problem nearly as much when you when searching solo, why? Because the game only allowed you to match other solo players or pairs. BR starts are more balanced if the teams are.
  2. Map design. Ok, so I’ve seen the argument that the map design allows for players to dominate power positions off spawn because they don’t need to fight over a better weapon first. Now this argument is silly, the only advantage that player has, say if he is standing top mid on Truth is one of height and possibly cover. You have the same weapon as that player or same tier at least on BR starts so you can at least shoot back at him or team shot him if your team mates are competent. If it was AR starts you wouldn’t have a fighting chance off spawn.
  3. TTK. Yes, I agree here, the BR shoots way too fast and this needs to be toned down, the DMR is the only precision weapon that should be capable of spamming is the DMR, but that’s only because it’s a pick up and doesn’t hit as hard as the light rifle or BR. Toning down the BR’s ROF would make it more of a precision tier weapon and further increase the skill gap.
  4. Lack of variety. Ok, another obsolete argument is the “BR renders the use of automatic and CQC weapons useless”. Now let me give a quick insight here, the BR is meant to be an all purpose rifle, if you weren’t supposed to use it at close range then that stupid 'BXR’ medal wouldn’t of been introduced as incentive. I know if I’m going head to head with an AR when I have a BR, if it’s with say within 15m (basically if the guy can be picked up on my motion sensor) then my room for mistake is very slim, if my opponent has intermediate accuracy then if I choke a burst then I’m most likely dead if I’m not near cover. BR starts don’t render CQC weapons useless like I have been reading, they just force the player to use the weapons in just that role, a CQC one. You just have to play these weapons the way they’re supposed to be played, I mean I do it too, I believe I transcend into some super human state when I have the energy sword and charge groups head on when really the sword get the most use in 1v1 fights or if you have a flank on a small group of enemies. You can’t expect to win every gun fight with CQC weapons, just because they are designed for a role doesn’t mean you’re unbeatable at that range.
  5. The beta playerbase drop. Now I don’t see why this argument exists, sure there are players who legitimately stopped playing the beta because they ‘despise BR starts’ but the majority of players would of either fulfilled their desire to play Halo 5 in the first week or simply aren’t interested in the game and go back to what they were playing before. You can’t just use a stupid issue like this to back your argument.

To summarise; Yes I’m a purist who loves BR starts. But i’ll tell you a secret, if my party and I matched players we deemed ‘tryhards’ in Halo 3 or Reach we would vote AR’s. Why? because we knew AR starts take the power away from the player, and precision weapons become the power weapon.
You can check the popularity of Halo games;
Halo 2; 2004-2007 mainly BR starts
Halo 3 2007-2010 mainly BR starts
Halo Reach 2010-2012 Mainly DMR starts
You can’t say BR starts are killing Halo, are you forgetting all those years of popularity increase?

2

bump because I wrote this stupid thing and I want people to notice it.

3

Totally agree with you man. If they remove the zoom on the AR then the game is perfectly balanced(just my opinion though).
I think a lot of people who are conplaining are not used to precision weapons being so dominant . When you look at the majority of FPS games then you’ll notice that auto rifles are used way more often. Peiple who say that BR starts are not halo dont really understand what halo is.
(I started with halo 4, so I wouldnt really say that I know what halo really is either :S)

4

1- While I do agree that the MM system needs to be better tuned to keep similar skilled opponents together and has influence on how the game plays out, it does not relate to what is happening in BR starts. Players in higher levels of play are still acting very defensively.

2- Map design does matter. If players are easily able to hold a position to the point they can pick players off spawn, while the enemy has little to no chance of a comeback, the map is imbalanced.

Truth is a good map that discourages holding one spot as there are at least 3 ways to flank a group of players each room. The bridge is a bad spot to hang out at as well; You can be attacked from either side( eslecially with DMRs killing you easiky as it fits perfectly in range of 30 meters), a player can break the shields,leaving them exposed, or another player can run down the middle and climb their way up and attack you. Even if players had BRs, other weapons still have a place, allowing for more variety. And the fact they do NOT constantly respawn with BRs allows for the big boost to only be temporary. The BRs are only a threat if they can actually control the other team. Failure to do so loses their power advantage, but can be retrieved again by returning the favor.

3- I am on the fence on this. Making things slower would only buff thrusters and sprint indirectly. They are still slower than Halo 1’s magnum. I think if theu reduce bullet magnetism, they won’t be so bad from far away.

4- The BR is meant to be an all-purpose rifle by taking advantage of the DMRs’ lack of power, and the AR’s lack of range. It cannot be the best simply because it is stronger by popular vote. There needs to be more to it than “Spam at head til dead”.

At the same time, we need to look at the AR starts and compare them to BR starts. Short version:

-The gametype settings heavily favors the BR by giving them a a radar range that benefits them, as opposed to thr AR NOT benefiting from being detected at 30 meters.

-By letting players know where each other is at early, players stay back and near cover to avoid death. This further makes the sniper even more important as it currently can kill a player in 1 shot at that range.

-Given that the BR was a semi-power weapon in AR starts, it kills off the need for the AR. Unless they camp, ARs and SMGs will have a difficult time making their way to 10 meters, where it is easiest to use them, or 15 meters where they are about even to the BR.

-DMRs acting as psuedo-snipers for Regret and Eden do not benefit from being seen at 30 meters. BRs currently can pick them up from radar and keep them off scope due to their bullet magnetism being too effective. Same can be said about the LR.

The gametype favors too much to the BR in the current settings and does have an impact on weapon variety. AR starts encourage players to use different weapons because they are at a disadvantage from range. BR starts are currentlu not at a disadvantage, reducing the need to pick up anything except sword and sniper. The gametype needs to be adjusted so that instead of 1 of 6 weapons on Regret and 3 of 7 weapons on Eden can be utilized and encourage players to move.

5- Unrelated. If you have an issue in the thread, post in it.

No one is saying BR starts is killing Halo. They are saying BR starts are nowhere near as fun as a balanced AR starts. We went from having every weapon being used frequently to 42.6% of weapons available on Eden being used and 16.6% of weapons being used on Regret. The matchups are boring. The gametype caters too much tk the BR. If this is going to be a gametype, it needs some serious rebalancing to make it fun.

5

I’m not going to quote that ^ because I’m on my phone and it takes too long to backspace and I only want to make mention of one aspect. Variety isn’t really needed, I don’t see why people complain about the lack of variety. Pick up weapons (which aren’t power weapons) aren’t supposed to be used heaps, they are there for you to use as a back up in certain situations. I think now that I have and AR (efficient in CQC) and a BR (mid range God) instead of BR and pistol spawns then I don’t pick up weapons like the SMG as much just because I have possibly the two best spawn weapons in the game. The only pick up weapon (that isn’t a power weapon) that I would intentionally trade for my assault riffle is the plasma pistol, which isn’t even in the game.

6

BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.

The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.

7

> 2533274913936758;6:
> BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
>
> The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.

Exactly

8

> 2533274913936758;6:
> BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
>
> The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.

Wrong, BR’s are only a crutch for players who are not intelligent or skilled enough to apply the tools that they have at their disposal to acquire even better tools. Instead they whine and they cry and they lie saying that it is more “skilled” for everyone to have a “fighting chance” right out of the gate. But here’s the kicker, LIFE AIN’T FAIR. The game shouldn’t hold your hand and give you a crutch because you and your team played bad initially. If you’re truly the more skilled, you’d be able to fight out of the situation you found yourself in.

I know for a fact that with AR starts, not only was every weapon in the sandbox being used and used effectively. The BR and DMR were nowhere near as devastating as they are now. Where only one or two jagovs could try to cross map, you could break line of sight, close in, and flank with tactics and strategy. Now any attempts to move even an inch from cover is instantly punished by 3-4 simultaneous cross map BR shots. It’s a joke.

I’ve played Halo since CE, I know what the hell I’m talking about and I know that the delusion that MLG Wannabes/nevergonnabes have been spewing at us for over 10-years is complete malarkey. BR’s are not, nor have they ever been “more skilled” as a weapon. They are a generalist weapon with more versatility than the AR and DMR, and quite frankly, it is the most overpowered weapon in the sandbox next to these golram grenades!

So pull your head out of your butt, because I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell me. The only Gimmick we’ve got to worry about is any Start with a BR straight off spawn.

9

> 2533274824466008;8:
> > 2533274913936758;6:
> > BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
> >
> > The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.
>
>
>
> Wrong, BR’s are only a crutch for players who are not intelligent or skilled enough to apply the tools that they have at their disposal to acquire even better tools. Instead they whine and they cry and they lie saying that it is more “skilled” for everyone to have a “fighting chance” right out of the gate. But here’s the kicker, LIFE AIN’T FAIR. The game shouldn’t hold your hand and give you a crutch because you and your team played bad initially. If you’re truly the more skilled, you’d be able to fight out of the situation you found yourself in.
>
> I know for a fact that with AR starts, not only was every weapon in the sandbox being used and used effectively. The BR and DMR were nowhere near as devastating as they are now. Where only one or two jagovs could try to cross map, you could break line of sight, close in, and flank with tactics and strategy. Now any attempts to move even an inch from cover is instantly punished by 3-4 simultaneous cross map BR shots. It’s a joke.
>
> I’ve played Halo since CE, I know what the hell I’m talking about and I know that the delusion that MLG Wannabes/nevergonnabes have been spewing at us for over 10-years is complete malarkey. BR’s are not, nor have they ever been “more skilled” as a weapon. They are a generalist weapon with more versatility than the AR and DMR, and quite frankly, it is the most overpowered weapon in the sandbox next to these golram grenades!
>
> So pull your head out of your butt, because I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell me. The only Gimmick we’ve got to worry about is any Start with a BR straight off spawn.

This is a joke post right?
BR starts are a gimmick now?

I’m sorry to tell you this my friend but the gimmicks in H5 are sprint, thruster, ground pound, slide, spartan charge

Those are additions to the game that have been implemented to appeal to a broader audience ie: gimmicks

There have been BR starts since H2, there will be Br starts in H5, and there will be BR starts in H6

Get used to it

EDIT: Here’s an idea then, Off spawn to start a game players only spawn with a pistol and 2 nades

Eliminates AR starts, Eliminates BR starts

Everyone should be happy no?

(I only suggets this because my AR/BR start idea has been shot down by all the pro AR-start peoples)

10

Based on experience with the 3 weeks of change, as well as game type variations, here’s what I have found (sa and sprint hate comments not withstanding):

Week 1 - fresh game with AR starts so everyone would focus on renewed weapon balance and mechanics. Split community, but worked well for people that learned the team aspect of the game. Towards the end of the week, teams dominated singles, and people wanted a fighting chance.

Week 2 - BR starts. Some enjoyed it, some hated it (probably the same crowd that hated BR starts in any halo game). Punished singles even more and factored ttk even more (even though 4 shot was there in all post BR halos). 60fps halo is quicker (play mcc campaigns and you will see rate of fire increased for enemies, especially on higher difficulty levels). Aside from this, SMG/pistol starts were in breakout. Team work stressed more, and power of smg really shined (Why no SMG/BR discussion? At cqc, smg wrecks the ar).

Week 3 - Ar/BR starts. People still not happy (unless the pistol gets a buff orore auto aim/bullet magnetism, people will find it harder to use, but it dominates up to mid range). Strongholds, especially on empire, shows cqc potential of smg and AR. With most games, I’ve noticed the AR stomping BR on the stronghold locations mostly, but that could be the forced cqc (although the nades are insane!).

Conclusion: people have different tastes. Different game types deserve different starts, but in pure slayer, people will groan about anything because play styles are so different. The sa and sprint debate doesn’t help here, because ttk is shorter in at 60fps. Games feel more fluid and faster by design. Compare old school h2 or 3 to tmcc, and realize that those games were developed to PLAY at half the FPS. If H5 was reduced (after being built to run at 60fps), it would play like older halos, and people would realize that it’s all perception. Weapons will be balanced more than they are, but it’s nice to finally see a use for most ranges (people prefer precision over multiple ranges, so they go for the br, start or not). Otherwise people would love the pistol/ar starts.

11

> 2533274832130936;9:
> > 2533274824466008;8:
> > > 2533274913936758;6:
> > > BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
> > >
> > > The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Wrong, BR’s are only a crutch for players who are not intelligent or skilled enough to apply the tools that they have at their disposal to acquire even better tools. Instead they whine and they cry and they lie saying that it is more “skilled” for everyone to have a “fighting chance” right out of the gate. But here’s the kicker, LIFE AIN’T FAIR. The game shouldn’t hold your hand and give you a crutch because you and your team played bad initially. If you’re truly the more skilled, you’d be able to fight out of the situation you found yourself in.
> >
> > I know for a fact that with AR starts, not only was every weapon in the sandbox being used and used effectively. The BR and DMR were nowhere near as devastating as they are now. Where only one or two jagovs could try to cross map, you could break line of sight, close in, and flank with tactics and strategy. Now any attempts to move even an inch from cover is instantly punished by 3-4 simultaneous cross map BR shots. It’s a joke.
> >
> > I’ve played Halo since CE, I know what the hell I’m talking about and I know that the delusion that MLG Wannabes/nevergonnabes have been spewing at us for over 10-years is complete malarkey. BR’s are not, nor have they ever been “more skilled” as a weapon. They are a generalist weapon with more versatility than the AR and DMR, and quite frankly, it is the most overpowered weapon in the sandbox next to these golram grenades!
> >
> > So pull your head out of your butt, because I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell me. The only Gimmick we’ve got to worry about is any Start with a BR straight off spawn.
>
>
> This is a joke post right?
> BR starts are a gimmick now?
>
> I’m sorry to tell you this my friend but the gimmicks in H5 are sprint, thruster, ground pound, slide, spartan charge
>
> Those are additions to the game that have been implemented to appeal to a broader audience ie: gimmicks
>
> There have been BR starts since H2, there will be Br starts in H5, and there will be BR starts in H6
>
> Get used to it
>
> EDIT: Here’s an idea then, Off spawn to start a game players only spawn with a pistol and 2 nades
>
> Eliminates AR starts, Eliminates BR starts
>
> Everyone should be happy no?
>
> (I only suggets this because my AR/BR start idea has been shot down by all the pro AR-start peoples)

So simply because you demand that it be so, then Halo should be the exact same game it has been for the past decade? Sounds like a franchise that most Halo fans hate with a passion - oh wait, THAT’S CALL OF FRACKIN’ DUTY! Same Game, year after -Yoink- year.

BR Starts are a thing of the past and need to go, in limited numbers they are balanced, as their numbers rise their imbalance begins to become ever more clear. When everyone spawns with a BR, then it becomes a nightmare for everyone.

As for what you call “gimmicks” I call features. Every Halo game since H2 has changed the formula with new features since Halo: CE to H2. In H2 we got highjacking, skyjacking, dual-wielding, higher jumps, faster move speed, loads of new weapons and enemies, AR was removed, SMG was introduced.

H2 - H3, we got more weapons, dual wielding stayed, AR returned, deploy-able equipment pickups, Plasma Pistol got its new EMP ability to shut down vehicles, thereby giving it more utility. Movement slowed, jump height lowered.

H3 - Reach, Armor Abilities, DMR, etc. etc.

The point is Halo has changed with new features while keeping the core gameplay the same, the only game that truly deviated from the Halo formula in such a drastic way is Halo 4, which was an abomination, much akin to a Halo skinned Call of Duty in multiplayer.

H5 is 10x closer to true Halo gameplay with new features than H4 ever could dream of being.

BR Starts though, they are a gimmick through and through, only casuals and carebears would want the mercy of “a fighting chance” on respawn. Since all starts are the same with AR, the only reason you’d lose on an AR start is if you played poorly to begin with and continued to play poorly through to the end. Hell having the prerequisite of having to best other players in combat to claim the power weapons are what make Halo a unique experience, have a god-mode tool like a BR that performs well in all ranges is as casual as it gets and makes all other weapons obsolete and redundant.

12

> 2533274824466008;11:
> > 2533274832130936;9:
> > > 2533274824466008;8:
> > > > 2533274913936758;6:
> > > > BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wrong, BR’s are only a crutch for players who are not intelligent or skilled enough to apply the tools that they have at their disposal to acquire even better tools. Instead they whine and they cry and they lie saying that it is more “skilled” for everyone to have a “fighting chance” right out of the gate. But here’s the kicker, LIFE AIN’T FAIR. The game shouldn’t hold your hand and give you a crutch because you and your team played bad initially. If you’re truly the more skilled, you’d be able to fight out of the situation you found yourself in.
> > >
> > > I know for a fact that with AR starts, not only was every weapon in the sandbox being used and used effectively. The BR and DMR were nowhere near as devastating as they are now. Where only one or two jagovs could try to cross map, you could break line of sight, close in, and flank with tactics and strategy. Now any attempts to move even an inch from cover is instantly punished by 3-4 simultaneous cross map BR shots. It’s a joke.
> > >
> > > I’ve played Halo since CE, I know what the hell I’m talking about and I know that the delusion that MLG Wannabes/nevergonnabes have been spewing at us for over 10-years is complete malarkey. BR’s are not, nor have they ever been “more skilled” as a weapon. They are a generalist weapon with more versatility than the AR and DMR, and quite frankly, it is the most overpowered weapon in the sandbox next to these golram grenades!
> > >
> > > So pull your head out of your butt, because I’m not buying what you’re trying to sell me. The only Gimmick we’ve got to worry about is any Start with a BR straight off spawn.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a joke post right?
> > BR starts are a gimmick now?
> >
> > I’m sorry to tell you this my friend but the gimmicks in H5 are sprint, thruster, ground pound, slide, spartan charge
> >
> > Those are additions to the game that have been implemented to appeal to a broader audience ie: gimmicks
> >
> > There have been BR starts since H2, there will be Br starts in H5, and there will be BR starts in H6
> >
> > Get used to it
> >
> > EDIT: Here’s an idea then, Off spawn to start a game players only spawn with a pistol and 2 nades
> >
> > Eliminates AR starts, Eliminates BR starts
> >
> > Everyone should be happy no?
> >
> > (I only suggets this because my AR/BR start idea has been shot down by all the pro AR-start peoples)
>
>
> So simply because you demand that it be so, then Halo should be the exact same game it has been for the past decade? Sounds like a franchise that most Halo fans hate with a passion - oh wait, THAT’S CALL OF FRACKIN’ DUTY! Same Game, year after -Yoink- year.
>
> BR Starts are a thing of the past and need to go, in limited numbers they are balanced, as their numbers rise their imbalance begins to become ever more clear. When everyone spawns with a BR, then it becomes a nightmare for everyone.
>
> As for what you call “gimmicks” I call features. Every Halo game since H2 has changed the formula with new features since Halo: CE to H2. In H2 we got highjacking, skyjacking, dual-wielding, higher jumps, faster move speed, loads of new weapons and enemies, AR was removed, SMG was introduced.
>
> H2 - H3, we got more weapons, dual wielding stayed, AR returned, deploy-able equipment pickups, Plasma Pistol got its new EMP ability to shut down vehicles, thereby giving it more utility. Movement slowed, jump height lowered.
>
> H3 - Reach, Armor Abilities, DMR, etc. etc.
>
> The point is Halo has changed with new features while keeping the core gameplay the same, the only game that truly deviated from the Halo formula in such a drastic way is Halo 4, which was an abomination, much akin to a Halo skinned Call of Duty in multiplayer.
>
> H5 is 10x closer to true Halo gameplay with new features than H4 ever could dream of being.
>
> BR Starts though, they are a gimmick through and through, only casuals and carebears would want the mercy of “a fighting chance” on respawn. Since all starts are the same with AR, the only reason you’d lose on an AR start is if you played poorly to begin with and continued to play poorly through to the end. Hell having the prerequisite of having to best other players in combat to claim the power weapons are what make Halo a unique experience, have a god-mode tool like a BR that performs well in all ranges is as casual as it gets and makes all other weapons obsolete and redundant.

so we are in agreement then?
Pistol only starts?

13

> 2533274913936758;6:
> BR starts is being used as a scapegoat and excuse to remove even more of the skill gap by players who don’t like playing “hard” Halo.
>
> The problem with this game is not BR starts. It’s the gimmicks, overcrowded sandbox and bad map designs based on sprint.

Yeah let’s have a barebones game that plays exactly like Halo 3!! That definitely deserves my time and money again. sarcasm. There’s no such thing as hard halo when everyone spawns with a power weapon.