It’s Not Enough

Do you think that the character artists responsible for creating new armor have anything to do with implementing co-op? Do you think character artists just like… create new engine tech on the side when they aren’t working on cosmetics?

When I see people who have never worked on a big video game in their entire life make sweeping statements about how game devs should internally operate, I get really giddy to hit the reply button.

Yup. I also remember being around to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how Bungie ruined Halo Reach because of armor abilities, loadouts, sandbox changes, and so on.

I’m actually gonna disagree with this slightly. I would love for every Halo game to have the wealth of content that Halo Reach had. What they accomplished with that game was actually insane.

Sadly though, games keep getting more and more expensive to make each year. They’re getting progressively more and more complex. I’d love for the next Halo game to launch with an insane amount of content. I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect it.

Nope, not necessarily. You’ll eventually run into the “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem, and we can’t know for certain if hiring more people will help.

BUT there is an unintended side effect for what you’re suggesting. Suppose this is the scenario they’re working in:

Campaign co-op is currently blocked because the team needs new tech to handle, say, respawning in co-op. The director of the game looks at all the facts and there’s two options without harming work/life balance:

Option A: Keep the headcount as it is, knowing that the development and implementation of this tech might set the release date for co-op back weeks or months.

Option B: Hire a contract engineer or two to help, knowing that at the end of their contract they won’t be renewed because there isn’t going to be work for them to do. But by doing this, they’ll get co-op out on time.

What’s the better option?

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Like I said. Not
My concern.

Bungie expanded 200% moving into Destiny 1 to sustain a live service and build the franchise and they still encountered regular content droughts.

Maybe 343i need to look outward at the industry and get some
Idea on what they need to do to maintain their live service game.

The people praising their work and accepting the content they have trickled out (2 patches and a BtB matchmaking bug fix) over the past 4 months are in the minority and the community is in an uproar about this.

This update today is a direct response to this.

Something needs to change. More transparency- maybe but really to make any sort of progress the company will need to make some fundamental changes in order to level out the situation and prevent the dive from re occurring this time next battle pass.

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Right. So instead of answering the question, you’re just going to tacitly admit you don’t really care about how it gets done (even if they do it by exploiting workers), you just want it now. Which has been my point all along.

Sure I agree with all of this. But I’m not gonna get mad when they say “it’s taking time because we’re prioritizing work/life balance.”

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This is my thread, my topic, my opinion.

And it’s been consistent the whole time.

Given today’s update from Staten, Given the Priority one outlook and amount of content listed in said update.
It’s not enough.
1 map…
a new 100 levels of cosmetics.
In 6 months…
1 map vs all the hours taken to code in new content to sell you…
Also mentions of people working there feeling under the pump…

Not enough.
Don’t care for employment issues/ not my concern. Im sure if it’s so bad Schrier will pump and article on it or one of the employees will speak out about it… I don’t work there/ am unable to assist on this or have an opinion on it outside of the narrow scope Staten just brought up within the update today…

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I feel like the update should have been written by someone overseeing development as a whole, why is the Head Writer/Cinematic Overseer penning the update?

Big fan of Joe, but that’s not his place.

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Link to update? I dont see it here on waypoint.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-infinite-update-march-2022

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There is so much to read in between the lines here.
And thats a good thing.
But, when reading between the lines, your personal point of view plays a factor.
I wish they would have delayed this game so much.
I really wish it wasnt Free to Play.
But its too late.
Im ok with whats going to be a snails pace of progression on the “hotlist”, if it means 343 employees can have quality of life.
I hope 343-microsoft has learned a lesson about contract employees, and management. seriously

Who knows what bs they’ve eaten, and then all their work winds up being slammed.
The community underestimated the affect the two leads quitting had on 343, id say.
Thats a mental kick in the balls.
Heres a suggestion
Please make a “hotlist” acknowledging as many issues the community has pointed out/identified and share it, so we can experience this together.
Obviously not anti-cheat, but keep us in the loop.
Cough- fix 152 watchdog-cough #hotlist priority #230
This official forum is not really used by 343 for anything.
Post and sticky right up top.
You have highly talented mods here to mod that one thread.
You have the best fans in gaming here. (Cept banned ones, but thats another battle)
Let the community managers do their job. Here.
Its slower than twitter, or reddit. Or okcupid.
Better for work-life, way way better.
Ive said things i wish i could take back on the net, but only because i use things like instagram or reddit for a lot more than halo.
So to use them as part of work will emotionally compromise you. Better for the mind that way.
Its the existing official message board.
It feels like everything is backwards, 343 engages readily on twitter, reddit, and I feel that should be rare with most public communication done HERE. Call it old school.
Wow im baked.
Im not expecting anything anymore.
They wont get any purchases from me until I want to buy.
Right now I dont want to buy.
Doesnt mean never.
Emotions aside, its a waste of money.
Expect nothing major unless 343 starts making breakthroughs.
Frustratingly, expect every aspect of the store to work great. Its the easiest and best functioning aspect of Infinite. Its not broken or still in development.
Everything else will take a year at least.
No mention of forge monetization, yet. Who are these prominent forgers betaflighting?
Do they exist?

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And this is my comment, my reply, my opinion.

I know. You’re very consistently on the side of “I don’t care how it gets done, even if it means people have to crunch.” Which is what I’m taking issue with.

Two maps

Nope. Read it again. He already mentioned that there’s going to be story elements happening with this season. There’s more than just “100 levels of cosmetics.”

What are you talking about? There’s no coding involved with cosmetics. Do you even know what these roles do? A character artist creates the cosmetics (they have nothing to do with maps). A designer plugs the art into an “item” (again, nothing to do with maps at all). Then a QA tester verifies it. And I guarantee QA isn’t the bottleneck here.

The issue here is that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how games get made. You actually said they’re “taking time to code in new content to sell you,” which is so hilariously uninformed. You honestly believe the cosmetic items that players can buy is affecting the creation of maps.

Also, there was more mentioned in there, like how the team is working on a completely different progression system that isn’t tied to seasons. We also know there’s a portion of the team working on Season 3. And we know they’re having players using Forge right now in the flights. They’ve done more than what you’re talking about in the last six months.

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Understand where you are coming from. But the point being stated that the “work life balance of the staff is not a valid excuse” still stands.

If you paid a builder to build your house and he promises a build date by December 2020… Then you fast forward 1 year and 3 months and they are still there finishing off parts of your home. Would you be happy with the excuse from the builder that plumber needs to have a work life balance?

Yes it’s the gaming industry… yes gaming is not important. No it doesn’t give them an out to not deliver on the goods and services that they sell to the public.
I was sold a game that should have coop, how you resource this to happen on the schedule you promised is not my problem.

No you the consumer shouldn’t be yelling at the plumber directly as to why the kitchen isn’t finished yet. Yes it is perfectly acceptable to be harassing the builder who you signed the contract with for their failures on delivering the project on time.

Meanwhile you can excuse me if I get annoyed that whilst I am harassing the builder to finish the house they continue to ignore my concerns and are still trying to upsell me on buying more cosmetics… No I just want the house I paid for.

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Hard disagree.

In this scenario, Microsoft is the person paying the builder (343) to make the house (Halo Infinite). Not us. So this example doesn’t really stand.

For your example to work, Halo Infinite would have needed to have been a Kickstarter project. Then you’d have something to take issue with. Right now, though, 343 has delivered what they’ve sold to us. You can buy the campaign right now and play it from start to finish. That is the only gameplay that they’re selling.

No you were not. They explicitly said co-op wasn’t included at launch. You were explicitly sold a game without co-op. Co-op was never part of the $60 price tag.

If this was a Star Citizen scenario, then your analogy would have a leg to stand on.

Sad to see that you have no sense of consumer rights.

But actually they only came out saying that the coop wouldn’t be released probably about 2 years after they started taking pre-orders.

This whole attitude that you are bringing to the table is the problem… The gaming industry needs to start under promising and over delivering. This means we don’t want the rest of the game released through patches.

I don’t care if “Microsoft” is hiring 343 as a sub contractor… I am still the consumer and I was promised coop campaign. Them telling me 3 months before the house build date that it is being delayed after I’ve already pre-ordered is breaching contract.

Either way I was only here to see if halo is worth playing again soon. Looks like I’ll check in in another year to see if there’s anything worth talking about.

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I’m all about consumer rights.

When you found out there wasn’t co-op, did you cancel your pre-order?

They literally tried to manage expectations by saying early on “Hey, don’t expect co-op and forge at launch.” This is the definition of under promising and every single day since before launch people have been complaining about no forge and no co-op. It doesn’t matter what they promise.

Then this game isn’t for you. If you bought it knowing that they weren’t including forge/co-op and your stance is “I don’t want the game updated after launch with these features,” then you should have never bought it.

No, you weren’t. You, the consumer, were sold a $60 that has no mention of co-op campaign anywhere on the box, nor in the digital store listing.

You could’ve/should’ve cancelled and got your money back. I’m sure Steam/Microsoft would have easily cancelled your pre-ordered if you told them no co-op was a dealbreaker.

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You could have made a Reach reference here but I’ll let it slide =P

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So by your logic if you bought a game that was nothing other than what was shown in the trailer… and by extension I mean literally a 4 minute interactable trailer then you the consumer recevied what you were promised.
Should I also have to keep checking in with the progress of the build of my house before I decide whether or not I want to cancel the contract?

Bonnie promised back in what 2017 that infinite would have coop.

“343 Industries seems to have listened and decided that there would be no harm in reinstating split-screen co-op for Halo Infinite. Bonnie Ross, the head of 343, confirmed at DICE 2017”

Read More: https://www.svg.com/172382/will-halo-infinite-have-split-screen-multiplayer/?utm_campaign=clip

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if they dont work at least 40h a week they are not working hard enough on this game

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I have no idea what stand you’re taking, but do you honestly believe this game’s in good shape now/ will be in good shape at S2 launch based on this update? Do you play very much? Because for Ranked there’s pretty much nothing there (three maps, and occasionally you get Bazaar or Aquarius) and what there is still struggles badly with netcode and desync (god the melee) that H5 utterly outclassed at launch.

There’s a reason even professionals that are paid to play are starting to complain.

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What??? Are you telling me that you were led to believe through marketing that Halo Infinite would have co-op at launch?

Stop with the house analogy. It doesn’t apply here. You didn’t pay 343 to make anything.

And it eventually will. Not at launch though. You were told well in advance that you weren’t getting it for launch. If co-op was so important for you, why didn’t you cancel your pre-order and wait for co-op?

It’s not in bad shape, but it’s certainly not a good example of a live service game done well. I said as much above.

My stance is that people who are against work/life balance in the game industry (aka, they want them to crunch) are scum of the earth. Hence why I’m arguing with these people.

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Nobody’s against work life balance haha. Studios with half the budget of 343 provide twice the content. Who said they’re against work life balance?

And I mean, it’s certainly in bad shape compared to H5. H5 had better technical performance and a full DLC by this time post release. Did you play H5?

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