Is UNSC too powerfull since Halo 4 ?

Am I the only one who thinks the UNSC has become too powerfull since Halo 4 ?

During Halo 3, after 27 years of war, UNSC was exhausted and humanity on the verge of complete destruction. Planet Earth was occupied and devastated, and population has been reduced to only 200 millions as of December 2552.
When Lord Hood (commander officer of the UNSC Home Fleet) launchs attack against Truth’s dreadnought, he has only 3 frigates available (which are very weak ships).
And it is what makes Halo interesting. A hopeless bleak war being fought between humanity and the Covenant, and a handful of Spartans-II (Blue Team, Red Team…), the only ennemy Covenant fear on the ground (excepting the Flood) and the only ennemy that can change the turn of the battle against all odds.

Since Halo 4, UNSC has super powerful and big ships (Infinity), hundreds of Spartans, superior technology, etc…
In the same time, the Covenant get crushed battle after battle, even in space battles they used to win. Jul Mdama regularly lost lots of ships and troops against Infinity without much resistance, and Elites seem to be unable to stop Spartans-IV (which are not Spartans-II). For comparizon, in Halo Reach, all of Noble Team (excepting Jun who escaped the battle after Halsey), despite being better than S-IV, has been KIA. Carter, Noble Six and Jorge sacrificed their lives, Kat has been killed by a headshot, Emile has been stabbed by a Sangheili Zealot. And in the book, a lot of Spartans-II from Red Team died too.

  • Halo 4
  • Spartan Ops
  • Halo Escalation (so many stupid defeats in this comic… )
  • Halo 5 opening ( + an anticlimactic death of the leader of the Covenant as soon as the first mission of Halo 5…)
  • Covenant failed attack on Sangheilios
  • Battle of Sunaion

When was the last Covenant victory in the games ?

I really want the Covenant empire to rise from the ashes in Halo 6. I would love to see the come back of the Prophets, the Brutes, the Huragoks and the Drones (+ loyalist Unggoys, Kig-Yars, Legkolo, and even new alien species from the unknown space) : the Second Covenant Empire.

But I fear the remains of the Covenant will get crushed by Spartans-IV again in Halo 6 and be forced to work under the orders of Cortana, which is an UNSC AI… A new descent into the abyss for the once glorious Covenant :frowning:

I understand the frustration, I really do.

That said, the First and Second Battle of Requiem resulted in more of a Covenant victory than a UNSC one (In terms of losses). Ground forces were battered by Covenant, and the only real advantage the UNSC had over hostile infantry were Spartan IV’s which ran laps around lost territory, only to simply be recaptured by Covenant again.

In addition, Mdama’s Faction had some of its own great warriors, notably Field Commander 'Lhar. A lot of Spartan IV’s were slain by him, so some sort of balance looms in that respect even if very few Sangheili are able to match up to Spartan level.

With all that said, big victories were rarely accomplished unfortunately. However, the idea of the Covenant is not one that can simply be stomped out and never will be.

To an extent Skedar red team I see and can agree with you but the UNSC hasn’t just suddenly got better, it is explained in the lore. The UNSC always is adapting, reverse engineering almost every bit of technology they get their hands on. That is how Mjolnir ended up with energy shields. The Infinity, Spartans and every other advancement is a result of that.

The Covenant on the other hand is/was mostly regimented when it came to advancment from technology they gained. Most of it being locked away by the San’Shyumm in order to preserve the lies of the Covenant while keeping them in power. Hence why so many Covenant weapons and vehicles are being modified post Schism. Also the brunt of the engineers the Covenant had were either lost, captured by humanity to boost their power or taken by the prophets, leaving the other races scrambling to relearn many core principles. This is the predicament the Sangheili in particular find themselves in currently.

As for the stupid defeats we read about in the expanded universe that maybe due mostly to pretty crap storys written by authors who may not have done deep research but simply grab bits between Halo 3-5. Halo wars 2 and Halo 6 may not bring the bleakness of the war but could put some edge back in the universe.

No.
I like the shift.

I agree that the UNSC seems too strong post Halo 3.

I disagree that we need to bring back the Old Covenant and thereby cease the character development of the ex-Covenant. I’d like to see Halo come up with new ideas, not rip-off old ones.

Good post, you’ve bullet-pointed the holes in the “humanity are the giant’s” argument well. (That’s still got to be the most cringe worthy intro of any Halo game or DLC)

I honestly don’t know why but 343 seemed to force a Pro-UNSC theme into the franchise with the introduction of Halo 4, as if the UNSC was some new and improved stronger than ever human superpower despite the fact this theme just did not fit the setting at all. (It was only 4 years after the most devastating and costly war in human history which left 60 - 75% of the total human population dead, our home-world and industrial heartland in ruins and the human military according to Bungie “scattered and crushed”)

I agree with good Gek Lhar that the UNSC “supposed” military superiority is overhyped, and that in reality they’ve actually made very little progress since the end of the human-covenant war. The Second Battle of Requiem was a tactical and strategic draw on both sides, as neither the UNSC nor the Covenant Remnant’s were able to seize control of the Shield World. Yes the Covenant lost ships, but they also took custody of the UNSC’s foremost expert in Forerunner tech, a huge blow to the UNSC R&D division. As other commenters have also noted, we only see 2 Strident-class Frigates fleeing Requiem at the game, so this may indicate some or all of the rest of Infinity’s support fleet was lost.

Likewise, Escalations actually depicts the Infinity getting its metaphoric back broken when a Covenant built space stations rips through its shields and armour 3 separate times using an energy projector. This fact and the complete debacle during the Second Battle of Requiem because the UNSC is so bad at understanding and reverse engineering Forerunner and Covenant technology that they need to super-glue Forerunner engineers that they can’t control into the Infinity’s superstructure shows that in the event of a second full scale war with even a partially reunified Covenant Empire, the UNSC wouldn’t stand a chance.

I also agree with you about Cortana, 343 should have left her RIP after the well executed death they gave her in Halo 4. I would love if the ‘Swords of Sangheilios’ turned out to be a silent antagonist of Halo 5, with the Arbiter unveiling a fleet of tier 1 class Sangheili warship’s and warriors outfitted with Promethean like armour and weaponry in place of the Guardian’s which he would then turn loose on Earth at the end. (That, you may not have seen coming if it happened!)

I don’t know where Halo 6 is going but, but from where they came from I don’t have high hopes.

> 2533274853837831;6:
> I also agree with you about Cortana, 343 should have left her RIP after the well executed death they gave her in Halo 4. I would love if the ‘Swords of Sangheilios’ turned out to be a silent antagonist of Halo 5, with the Arbiter unveiling a fleet of tier 1 class Sangheili warship’s and warriors outfitted with Promethean like armour and weaponry in place of the Guardian’s which he would then turn loose on Earth at the end. (That, you may not have seen coming if it happened!)

That’s also quite a strange way to take things, especially considering that as Halo 5 began we already had a hostile Covenant faction under Jul 'Mdama, with the potential for more to be developed from the aether of ex-Covenant space such as the Banished. We would be sacrificing the SoS, the only significant post-Covenant faction that doesn’t obsess about human extermination, in the pursuit of creating a high degree of redundancy among hostile Covenant factions.

It is also very questionably OOC character for Thel 'Vadam and Rtas 'Vadum, and would mean that for whatever reason the SoS had decided to take a course of action that would be long term political suicide in the face of the Covenant masses becoming more and more anti-war as time went on.

I agree with you. It’s unfortunate to see the Covenant as a shadow of what it once was.

Interesting that people with covenant names all agree on that, but not unexpected. I thought this might happen.

that’s a thing I like about post war, the shift of power if you will. Humanity rises from decades of a losing conflict. They rise and meet the new challenges but keep rising.

Alot can be done in 4+ years without an enemy who outclasses you in every way bludgeoning your entire race.

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> > 2533274853837831;6:
> > I also agree with you about Cortana, 343 should have left her RIP after the well executed death they gave her in Halo 4. I would love if the ‘Swords of Sangheilios’ turned out to be a silent antagonist of Halo 5, with the Arbiter unveiling a fleet of tier 1 class Sangheili warship’s and warriors outfitted with Promethean like armour and weaponry in place of the Guardian’s which he would then turn loose on Earth at the end. (That, you may not have seen coming if it happened!)
>
>
> That’s also quite a strange way to take things, especially considering that as Halo 5 began we already had a hostile Covenant faction under Jul 'Mdama, with the potential for more to be developed from the aether of ex-Covenant space such as the Banished. We would be sacrificing the SoS, the only significant post-Covenant faction that doesn’t obsess about human extermination, in the pursuit of creating a high degree of redundancy among hostile Covenant factions.
>
> It is also very questionably OOC character for Thel 'Vadam and Rtas 'Vadum, and would mean that for whatever reason the SoS had decided to take a course of action that would be long term political suicide in the face of the Covenant masses becoming more and more anti-war as time went on.

You changed your profile picture fast!

Turning the SOS from ally to enemy would be a risky move, but I think it could work well if handled correctly.

I don’t know if you remember, but in Admiral Preston Cole’s autobiography Cole raised an really interesting theory that I really wish 343 would elaborate on. One thing Cole could never understand is why the Covenant didn’t just use their superior technology to triangulate Earth’s location from the numerous wireless signals bouncing around the Outer Colonies, and then use their superior numbers and resources to attack Earth and the Inner Colonies directly rather than fighting blindly through the Outer Colonies. Cole theorized that there was some kind of Covenant shadow faction at the heart of the Covenant leadership deliberately sabotaging their war-effort and maximizing the length the human-covenant war could be stretched to. Dr Hasley raised a similar question when she came to the conclusion that the Covenant was many times the size of human space, but up until 2552 only a tiny portion of their available military had been committed to the war.

I’ve always wondered what the story behind this was, and what this shadow groups’ motives were for indirectly prolonging the UNSC’s survival. Personally I don’t think this was the work of a small number of Covenant officials and officers who felt guilty over the atrocities their forces were committing. Rather I think this was the work of some kind of sinister and clandestine society withiin the Covenant which were using the UNSC (and perhaps countless other alien races) as a type of sacrificial lamb, keeping the Covenant military and its leadership occupied while and they worked towards something else. (Perhaps to keep them from finding the Halo Array)

During the marketing for Halo 5, there was a very interesting trailer narrated by Thel’ Vadam himself. During the trailer, Thel said that the Master Chief had considered him a friend, but questioned if we would still have thought of him as a friend if he knew what he had done.

The Master Chief must have known that Thel was a Covenant Supreme Commander (It was common knowledge amongst the Covenant rank-and-file, so this information must have become common knowledge amongst the UNSC to after 2553)

I think Thel was referencing something else that he had done, something that if the Master Chief found out, he could consider Thel an enemy, which begs the question what…? (I can provide a link to the trailer if you want)

The only thing I can come up with is that Thel is actually part of this clandestine shadow society at the heart of the Covenant leadership, and more sinisterly that he played a leading role in laying the ground work for the human-covenant war.

Thel is a very sympathetic character amongst fans because although he participated in perhaps the largest act of genocide in human history, he was doing this under the belief that it was what the Forerunners wanted. (I actually give more credit than this. We know the Covenant as an institution use collective punishment, so I think Thel and countless others participated in this was because if they didn’t, their clans and families would face retaliation)

This all changes if we and John-117 finds out that Thel could have stopped the war at the very beginning, but due to reasons (which may be justified) chose to allow it to proceed.

All of this is just theorization on my part, but I still think the SOS would make a good enemy. The reason I say this is that like the OP, I want to see a new unified Covenant Empire rise from the ashes of the old Covenant, bigger, stronger and even more technologically advanced than its predecessor to once again pose a overwhelming threat to the UNSC and humanity’s survival. This can’t happen while the Covenant is in a state of civil war with Sangheili fighting Sangheili, as logically neither side will want to break off this fight to go after the UNSC, thus loosing the initiative against their enemy on the home-front.

My main concern with having Jul Mdama Covenant faction wiping out the SOS and reunifying a Covenant Empire hostile to humanity is that it resets the status quo and eliminates all the development within the Covenant from the end of Halo 2. The exact same problem occurs with the ‘Bansished’ if 343 wanted to go down the route of a reunified Covenant led by the Jiralhanae rather than Sangheili, in that no matter how hard 343 try, Atriox will just appear to be an attempt to mould Jul’ Mdama and Tartartus into a single character. (A strong, militarily competent alien leader with a metaphoric idea number 3 stamped on their forehead)

By having the SOS defeat their rival faction led by Jul’ Mdama during th course of Halo 5 and then turning them against the UNSC at the end of the game, 343 could really mess with the dynamics of Halo in a good way. Halo 6 could have us (Blue Team, Osiris die in mission 1!) allying with former enemy Jul’ Mdama or Atriox, with a portion of the game taking place on Dosiac maybe as its come sunder invasion of SOS Sangheili equipped with state of the art tech and supported by Forerunner Prometheans.

Just to clarify, I’m not advocating that 343 turn Thel’ Vadam into a raging anti-human zealot like Jul’ Mdama was initially depicted. On the contrary, the entire war between the UNSC and SOS would be carried out as part of some kind of pre-determined master plan to remove the UNSC as a potential threat, and would actually involve the SOS allying themselves with human insurrectionists.

The most surreal moment of the game of this alternative Halo 5-6 would come at the end when the Master Chief realizes that Thel is actually trying to prevent the return of some kind of uber-powerful Forerunner/Flood character whose agents have infiltrated the UNSC, and so by extension Blue Team has been fighting on the wrong side.

Just a very rough idea in my head right now, but I hope that gives you an idea of how I think this particular plot twist would work if the Covenant was to come back ‘different’, but more powerful then it was before.

> 2533274809220485;9:
> Interesting that people with covenant names all agree on that, but not unexpected. I thought this might happen.
> that’s a thing I like about post war, the shift of power if you will. Humanity rises from decades of a losing conflict. They rise and meet the new challenges but keep rising.

Yes because they seem to be dealing with that technological apocalypse so well, with all their brilliant risk assessments on allowing artificial intelligences to run everything with absolutely no safeguards really paying off.

If the UNSC still does exist at the start of Halo 5, I’m sure they’ll walk it off.

Well expect the UNSC to be powerless in Halo 6.

> 2533274817408735;10:
> Alot can be done in 4+ years without an enemy who outclasses you in every way bludgeoning your entire race.

Yes except Halo Escalations confirmed that post 2553 Covenant splinter fleets are still terrorizing human colonies. Add to this the fact that the UNSC was financially bankrupt by the end of the war, the largest shipbuilding and industrial facilities in human space were destroyed during the war and human colonies are now breaking away from Earth and the UNSC’s control, and your should realize just how tenacious the UNSC’s position is post war.

I can also tell you that as someone who works for a company that ends up satellites, a single satellite can take 10 - 20 years to design, build and test before it is sent into space. Now apply that formula to an entire fleet of starships, then factor in that before you can build those starships you need to rebuild the facilities used to manufacture those starships which were themselves glassed to cinders during the course of the war. You’ve also got to find enough competent engineers and scientist were weren’t killed in the war, and you’ve got to deal with any key supplier who have been taken out of the supply chain because their either dead, or on an off-world colony which is now under a trade embargo because their colonial government has illegally declared themselves and independent colony world.

Oh and you’ve got no money to pay your staff because the UNSC had created a black-hole in its pension fund where it raised the pension funds of serving soldiers to build more Destroyer’s during the war, so you’ve also got the possibility of a rioting army to look forward to while rebuilding. And that’s just the start of your problems.

Still think they can rebuild to pre-war levels in under 1460 days? (It took the UNSC 80 years to established 210 Inner Colonies, and that was after the benefit of decades of peace)

> 2535442569875751;13:
> Well expect the UNSC to be powerless in Halo 6.

They’re pretty much powerless at the end of Halo 5. Their colonies have been taken over by the Created and most of their bases and ships have been disabled by the Guardians. The only ship that we know of that hasn’t been disabled or taken over is the Infinity.

> 2535437652903765;15:
> > 2535442569875751;13:
> > Well expect the UNSC to be powerless in Halo 6.
>
>
> They’re pretty much powerless at the end of Halo 5. Their colonies have been taken over by the Created and most of their bases and ships have been disabled by the Guardians. The only ship that we know of that hasn’t been disabled or taken over is the Infinity.

And the frigates inside the Infinity.

As the UEG president put it, humanity is now taking its rightful place in the universe. I like it

By the looks of halo wars 2, the banished (or covenant, whatever new people call it) seem to outclass the humans in most ways and make it seem that there is little hope for the unsc this time. Let the onslaught begin!

I don’t know if I would say they have too much power now, but they definitely have gotte stronger

> 2533274943975523;3:
> To an extent SKEDAR RED TEAM I see and can agree with you but the UNSC hasn’t just suddenly got better, it is explained in the lore. The UNSC always is adapting, reverse engineering almost every bit of technology they get their hands on. That is how Mjolnir ended up with energy shields. The Infinity, Spartans and every other advancement is a result of that.
>
> The Covenant on the other hand is/was mostly regimented when it came to advancment from technology they gained. Most of it being locked away by the San’Shyumm in order to preserve the lies of the Covenant while keeping them in power. Hence why so many Covenant weapons and vehicles are being modified post Schism. Also the brunt of the engineers the Covenant had were either lost, captured by humanity to boost their power or taken by the prophets, leaving the other races scrambling to relearn many core principles. This is the predicament the Sangheili in particular find themselves in currently.
>
> As for the stupid defeats we read about in the expanded universe that maybe due mostly to pretty crap storys written by authors who may not have done deep research but simply grab bits between Halo 3-5. Halo wars 2 and Halo 6 may not bring the bleakness of the war but could put some edge back in the universe.

The Banished sure as heck seem like a viable threat. The Covenant itself might have been broken at the Battle of Sunaion but now we’ve got the Banished and the Created to worry about