Is the Net Code good enough to disguise Real Lag?

Has this happened to you:

1.) Put several rounds into an enemy before a beat down, yet die from their mirror attack?
2.) Missed rounds badly yet end up getting solid hits?
3.) Nail repeated head shots to no effect?
4.) Die from phantom grenades? You can’t hear them, or see them, but they kill you.
5.) Miss point blank with the shotgun?
6.) Splatter an enemy that merely gets nudged?
7.) Get Splattered by vehicular tickles or wind sheer?
… The list goes on…

This first one happened to me again today for the millionth time since Halo 5 was released. I recall shooting about 5 pistol rounds into an enemy before my melee, to his 3 or 4 AR rounds with no melee, yet somehow I died. I vividly recall my melee animation playing as well. Extremely frustrated, I went back into the Theater to see what exactly my opponent did to kill me. To my surprise, the Theater showed that I only got off about 3 pistol rounds with no melee whatsoever, while my opponent got nearly 6 or 7 AR rounds off with a melee for the kill. I barely even scratched the guy I thought for sure I had dead to rights.

Time and Time again in this game, what I think I see just doesn’t make any damn sense. I have been playing Halo since the very beginning, dealing with terrible, un-freaking-believable bad lag. I have always been good at Halo, above average for sure, yet somehow I find myself getting absolutely schooled in Halo 5, especially when it come to one-on-one encounters. I unload into my opponent, cross-hair where it needs to be, yet I constantly die in these situations. My days of Rage quitting were long gone… until Halo 5.

The lag I’m speaking of isn’t the traditional kind of lag everybody likes to complain about: people skipping around, the frozen screen, or crazy physics. What I’m talking about is how the “jitters” gets smoothed out, making tiny lag spikes seem to vanish. For the most part, Halo 5 is incredibly smooth. It’s truly amazing how little lag there is considering all that’s going on. Yet I question the truth behind this seemingly near perfect experience. Is it really this smooth, or does the net code only make it appear this smooth to the end user, while in truth people aren’t always where they actually appear to be on your screen?

Lag has always plagued Halo. I would never want to go back to the Halo 2 lag experience, players tripping their routers for lag kills, and constant broken matches. Nobody wants to shoot at a target that jitters around the screen unpredictably, but at the same time, who wants to aim at a target that appears to be in one place while it’s actually someplace else? I’m not sure which frustrates me more.

One thing is for sure, Halo 5 Multi-player upsets me way more than it should. Sometimes I make dumb mistakes and get killed. It will happen, and I can own that. I truly respect a good Halo player who can pull off some amazing shots. I’m just extremely frustrated with how often my actions simply don’t seem to add up like they should, while opponents are able to kill be much quicker and easier than I can possibly wrap my head around.

Feel free to share any of your Disguised Lag experiences. Any Net Coders out there are welcome to support or destroy this topic. I just want to know what the hell is going on.

Sniper Headshots not killing Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
trying to run over a player Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
…assassinated Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
goku stop teleporting Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
2 punches to the back to win Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!

ha some stupid clips, ive recorded way more but i delete them for being uninteresting.

Tho I see weird stuff happen all the time. People eating grenade damage (1 grenade and still needing 4 shots to kill them), unloading entire SMG magazines into people when im using a suppressor and advanced radar so they dont even know im there, people needing 5-6 perfect headshots to kill them, dying in 1 punch before req 8, shrugging off direct impacts from Rail Guns, 1v1 AR vs The Answer and their AR winning when i got the first shot… eating sniper headshots.

Im a stickler for this stuff so i usually end up checking their profile or their friends profiles. More times than not, they are from outside of the US. As far as I know All the Servers are in the United States. If you are American like me, the problem we are seeing is likely due to matchmaking trying to be quick putting us into international Lobbies Or the Games population is small and can only find plays many thousands of miles away. If you are outside of America, its probably bad for you all the time and I truly wish there were more servers and region settings.

Though Generally when things are going well and im in a lobby with people near by the hit detection feels great. likely the best of any multiplayer game ive played.

Next to New York City with Verizon Fios as my isp. :3

Today the game was unplayable for me. Similar issues yesterday. I’m getting really bad rubber banding or just general 1 second delays for everything. I’ve restarted my router and checked my NAT. This issue is NOT on my end. I’m in the middle of the US and I might as well be one of those Aussie players 343 has effectively flipped off with H5.

Honestly… I’ve played on a 6Mbps & a 100Mbps. Now playing on a 75Mbps.

Absolutely none of this has happened to me.

> 2757114414746787;2:
> Sniper Headshots not killing Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> trying to run over a player Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> …assassinated Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> goku stop teleporting Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> 2 punches to the back to win Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
>
> ha some stupid clips, ive recorded way more but i delete them for being uninteresting.
>
> Tho I see weird stuff happen all the time. People eating grenade damage (1 grenade and still needing 4 shots to kill them), unloading entire SMG magazines into people when im using a suppressor and advanced radar so they dont even know im there, people needing 5-6 perfect headshots to kill them, dying in 1 punch before req 8, shrugging off direct impacts from Rail Guns, 1v1 AR vs The Answer and their AR winning when i got the first shot… eating sniper headshots.
>
> Im a stickler for this stuff so i usually end up checking their profile or their friends profiles. More times than not, they are from outside of the US. As far as I know All the Servers are in the United States. If you are American like me, the problem we are seeing is likely due to matchmaking trying to be quick putting us into international Lobbies Or the Games population is small and can only find plays many thousands of miles away. If you are outside of America, its probably bad for you all the time and I truly wish there were more servers and region settings.
>
> Though Generally when things are going well and im in a lobby with people near by the hit detection feels great. likely the best of any multiplayer game ive played.

I claimed the same thing in your beam rifle video was happening in team snipers and I got laughed out of the thread with posted evidence. None of them had upgraded shields which was my first assumption was going to be but you had some clear headshots. Ive had this issue myself and ive gotten headshots that clearly shouldn’t have been.

be aware upgraded shields do a lot to protect from grenades in general as well as all automatic weapon fights. that may be some of the sponging you see.

> 2533274807544947;4:
> Honestly… I’ve played on a 6Mbps & a 100Mbps. Now playing on a 75Mbps.
>
> Absolutely none of this has happened to me.

Good for you. That in no way means there aren’t major problems.

> 2535443674201980;1:
> Has this happened to you:
>
> 1.) Put several rounds into an enemy before a beat down, yet die from their mirror attack?
> 2.) Missed rounds badly yet end up getting solid hits?
> 3.) Nail repeated head shots to no effect?
> 4.) Die from phantom grenades? You can’t hear them, or see them, but they kill you.
> 5.) Miss point blank with the shotgun?
> 6.) Splatter an enemy that merely gets nudged?
> 7.) Get Splattered by vehicular tickles or wind sheer?
> … The list goes on…
>
> This first one happened to me again today for the millionth time since Halo 5 was released. I recall shooting about 5 pistol rounds into an enemy before my melee, to his 3 or 4 AR rounds with no melee, yet somehow I died. I vividly recall my melee animation playing as well. Extremely frustrated, I went back into the Theater to see what exactly my opponent did to kill me. To my surprise, the Theater showed that I only got off about 3 pistol rounds with no melee whatsoever, while my opponent got nearly 6 or 7 AR rounds off with a melee for the kill. I barely even scratched the guy I thought for sure I had dead to rights.
>
> Time and Time again in this game, what I think I see just doesn’t make any damn sense. I have been playing Halo since the very beginning, dealing with terrible, un-freaking-believable bad lag. I have always been good at Halo, above average for sure, yet somehow I find myself getting absolutely schooled in Halo 5, especially when it come to one-on-one encounters. I unload into my opponent, cross-hair where it needs to be, yet I constantly die in these situations. My days of Rage quitting were long gone… until Halo 5.
>
> The lag I’m speaking of isn’t the traditional kind of lag everybody likes to complain about: people skipping around, the frozen screen, or crazy physics. What I’m talking about is how the “jitters” gets smoothed out, making tiny lag spikes seem to vanish. For the most part, Halo 5 is incredibly smooth. It’s truly amazing how little lag there is considering all that’s going on. Yet I question the truth behind this seemingly near perfect experience. Is it really this smooth, or does the net code only make it appear this smooth to the end user, while in truth people aren’t always where they actually appear to be on your screen?
>
> Lag has always plagued Halo. I would never want to go back to the Halo 2 lag experience, players tripping their routers for lag kills, and constant broken matches. Nobody wants to shoot at a target that jitters around the screen unpredictably, but at the same time, who wants to aim at a target that appears to be in one place while it’s actually someplace else? I’m not sure which frustrates me more.
>
> One thing is for sure, Halo 5 Multi-player upsets me way more than it should. Sometimes I make dumb mistakes and get killed. It will happen, and I can own that. I truly respect a good Halo player who can pull off some amazing shots. I’m just extremely frustrated with how often my actions simply don’t seem to add up like they should, while opponents are able to kill be much quicker and easier than I can possibly wrap my head around.
>
> Feel free to share any of your Disguised Lag experiences. Any Net Coders out there are welcome to support or destroy this topic. I just want to know what the hell is going on.

Lag happens and has happened in every game. Actually back when Halo 2 came out, it was amazing how great the connection was and was seen as revolutionary at the time. Don’t think the game has some sort of netcoding that’s worse or better than other games, it’s just how it works.

Hey guys, I’m not here to be nasty but welcome to our world. For non US players this game is a complete nightmare of being dumped into US servers. There are players in Asia and Australia who cannot even connect to any game mode at all. Here’s a thread we’ve had going almost since day one, good luck trying to get 343 to take notice they’ve buried their heads so far in the sand it’s almost laughable.

Dedicated servers EU???

  1. Kills become assists.

Example: Me and teammate shoot enemy. Enemy kills teammate. I kill enemy. Teammate gets the kill. I get the assist. <This is real. I’ve been playing since CE, and this is the first game I’m noticing this. I speculate that the netcode’s lag correction is misconfigured. This happens with headshots and melees on one shot players.

Note: I live in Virginia with Verizon fios.

The melee thing you spoke about. Happens to me all the time. Out-shoot the enemy, melee (then they melee me at the same time without or barely damaging me) and BANG. I’m dead. Each time, I’m stunned for like 3 seconds wondering what the hell happened. This is a momentum killer.

> 2757114414746787;2:
> Sniper Headshots not killing Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> trying to run over a player Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> …assassinated Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> goku stop teleporting Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> 2 punches to the back to win Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
>
> ha some stupid clips, ive recorded way more but i delete them for being uninteresting.
>
> Tho I see weird stuff happen all the time. People eating grenade damage (1 grenade and still needing 4 shots to kill them), unloading entire SMG magazines into people when im using a suppressor and advanced radar so they dont even know im there, people needing 5-6 perfect headshots to kill them, dying in 1 punch before req 8, shrugging off direct impacts from Rail Guns, 1v1 AR vs The Answer and their AR winning when i got the first shot… eating sniper headshots.
>
> Im a stickler for this stuff so i usually end up checking their profile or their friends profiles. More times than not, they are from outside of the US. As far as I know All the Servers are in the United States. If you are American like me, the problem we are seeing is likely due to matchmaking trying to be quick putting us into international Lobbies Or the Games population is small and can only find plays many thousands of miles away. If you are outside of America, its probably bad for you all the time and I truly wish there were more servers and region settings.
>
> Though Generally when things are going well and im in a lobby with people near by the hit detection feels great. likely the best of any multiplayer game ive played.
>
> Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> Next to New York City with Verizon Fios as my isp. :3

The videos you provided were all pretty good examples. Most of it is far less subtle though, but certainly helps to make my point. I had to laugh at some of them because of just how ridiculous they are. I’m assuming these were all live capture videos? Not Theater replay? My issue is with the difference between Real Time game play, the player, versus what Theater captures, the dedicated server. If you are capturing these live, it would be interesting to compare these types of clips with Theater clips.

You also listed a great many examples I’ve experienced as well. My biggest issue is with the Rail gun. That weapon requires precision and confidence, and many times I have both and somehow end up hitting air. Full AR clips or SMG clips versus partial clips of either and I die. Grenade + Bullets + Grenade = Alive? I question if they nerfed “from the grave” grenades. Far, far fewer “from the grave” kills in Halo 5.

Although, you are so right about some games with spot on hit detection. There are times where every bullet I fire goes where it should and as a result I dominate those matches. Those are truly enjoyable to play, however few and far between they are. Thanks for sharing.

> 2533274820722681;5:
> > 2757114414746787;2:
> > Sniper Headshots not killing …
> >
> > …
> >
> > Though Generally when things are going well and im in a lobby with people near by the hit detection feels great. likely the best of any multiplayer game ive played.
>
>
> I claimed the same thing in your beam rifle video was happening in team snipers and I got laughed out of the thread with posted evidence. None of them had upgraded shields which was my first assumption was going to be but you had some clear headshots. Ive had this issue myself and ive gotten headshots that clearly shouldn’t have been.
>
> be aware upgraded shields do a lot to protect from grenades in general as well as all automatic weapon fights. that may be some of the sponging you see.

You make a good point about Warzone. The ability to use Req’s to “secretly” boost your stats is very new and unfamiliar to Halo. It’s important to remember that some of the time the reason you get killed is because your opponent truly is more powerful than you or has a better weapon. Using a specific AR loadout properly can cause major damage versus an opponent AR not suited for that specific encounter. However, pretty much all of my complaints carry over into Arena. They are just more prevalent in Warzone. All the same, this is a very important detail to remember when getting owned in Warzone.

> 2535443674201980;11:
> > 2757114414746787;2:
> > Sniper Headshots not killing Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > trying to run over a player Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > …assassinated Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > goku stop teleporting Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > 2 punches to the back to win Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> >
> > ha some stupid clips, ive recorded way more but i delete them for being uninteresting.
> >
> > Tho I see weird stuff happen all the time. People eating grenade damage (1 grenade and still needing 4 shots to kill them), unloading entire SMG magazines into people when im using a suppressor and advanced radar so they dont even know im there, people needing 5-6 perfect headshots to kill them, dying in 1 punch before req 8, shrugging off direct impacts from Rail Guns, 1v1 AR vs The Answer and their AR winning when i got the first shot… eating sniper headshots.
> >
> > Im a stickler for this stuff so i usually end up checking their profile or their friends profiles. More times than not, they are from outside of the US. As far as I know All the Servers are in the United States. If you are American like me, the problem we are seeing is likely due to matchmaking trying to be quick putting us into international Lobbies Or the Games population is small and can only find plays many thousands of miles away. If you are outside of America, its probably bad for you all the time and I truly wish there were more servers and region settings.
> >
> > Though Generally when things are going well and im in a lobby with people near by the hit detection feels great. likely the best of any multiplayer game ive played.
> >
> > Gamer DVR - Xbox clips, Twitch clips and streams, Xbox screenshots, Xbox videos, Xbox DVR and more on Gamer DVR!
> > Next to New York City with Verizon Fios as my isp. :3
>
>
> The videos you provided were all pretty good examples. Most of it is far less subtle though, but certainly helps to make my point. I had to laugh at some of them because of just how ridiculous they are. I’m assuming these were all live capture videos? Not Theater replay? My issue is with the difference between Real Time game play, the player, versus what Theater captures, the dedicated server. If you are capturing these live, it would be interesting to compare these types of clips with Theater clips.
>
> You also listed a great many examples I’ve experienced as well. My biggest issue is with the Rail gun. That weapon requires precision and confidence, and many times I have both and somehow end up hitting air. Full AR clips or SMG clips versus partial clips of either and I die. Grenade + Bullets + Grenade = Alive? I question if they nerfed “from the grave” grenades. Far, far fewer “from the grave” kills in Halo 5.
>
> Although, you are so right about some games with spot on hit detection. There are times where every bullet I fire goes where it should and as a result I dominate those matches. Those are truly enjoyable to play, however few and far between they are. Thanks for sharing.

My from the grave grenade kill in previous Halo titles all came from: 1) Panick mode, looking at the ground. 2) Throw nade. 3) Me dying. 4) From the grave kill. What I think happened with H5 is that grenade physics were greatly altered, they bounce waaaay more. So now, when I try to go for the same strategy, the nade bounce off real far from the enemy even if you throw it right at your feet. Really had to adjust myslef into not doing it anymore because it was something I would do constently before. Now you better be trying and shoot at the enemy until you’re dead, because if you still try to use this strategy, you’re just wasting 1 second at a move that doesn’t work anymore.

> 2533274868518923;10:
> The melee thing you spoke about. Happens to me all the time. Out-shoot the enemy, melee (then they melee me at the same time without or barely damaging me) and BANG. I’m dead. Each time, I’m stunned for like 3 seconds wondering what the hell happened. This is a momentum killer.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. Pretty much everybody I’ve played with in a Fire Team says the exact same thing at one point or another. This method of attack is fundamental to my particular play style… because I’m GOOD at it. For some reason, I die over half the time I try it these days, without even the satisfaction of a double beat down (we both die). Frustrates me constantly.

yes lag , this a clip from a friend , he shoots a dude right in the face whit the scatter shot , and he lives on , and the after like 1-2 sec he just dies to no damage .

and we stuff like this all the time , not this clear but its ther and its frustrating from time to time having to deal whit

> 2533274913936758;3:
> Today the game was unplayable for me. Similar issues yesterday. I’m getting really bad rubber banding or just general 1 second delays for everything. I’ve restarted my router and checked my NAT. This issue is NOT on my end. I’m in the middle of the US and I might as well be one of those Aussie players 343 has effectively flipped off with H5.

You described my situation perfectly. I had some just downright unplayable matches yesterday and and even today. Something is definitely wrong here because just like you it definitely is not on my end.

> 2812739231567241;8:
> Hey guys, I’m not here to be nasty but welcome to our world. For non US players this game is a complete nightmare of being dumped into US servers. There are players in Asia and Australia who cannot even connect to any game mode at all. Here’s a thread we’ve had going almost since day one, good luck trying to get 343 to take notice they’ve buried their heads so far in the sand it’s almost laughable.
>
> Dedicated servers EU???

I totally agree. Halo is an extremely fast-paced game where literally milliseconds matter. I would truly enjoy playing Halo with people from all around the world, if it didn’t take precious milliseconds to send and receive vital gameplay data. Unless 343 is capable of changing the laws of physics, the only real solution is Dedicated servers Outside of the US. I will try to temper my anger by reminding myself how much worse other Halo fans have it outside of the States. Regardless, I find it very satisfying to play Halo well, and I can only do that when my bullets go where they should and I’m not getting killed by stupid mystery bullets, grenades, and vehicles.

> 2533274814492433;15:
> yes lag , this a clip from a friend , he shoots a dude right in the face whit the scatter shot , and he lives on , and the after like 1-2 sec he just dies to no damage .
> GameClips.io - YeOldBlic playing Halo 5: Guardians. Watch more Xbox Clips at GameClips.io

Perfect example of what I’m talking about. Game play is absolutely smooth immediately before and after the scatter shot. The shot itself actually registers as a hit as well. All signs point towards a perfect scatter shot, yet somehow the enemy survives. Shortly after the first shot there is a spot of lag, right around when the second scatter shot is fired for the kill. What drives me nuts is when everything looks perfect from my end, like in this example, but somehow something screwy is going on. Thanks for sharing.

Switch to a 1ms monitor. You’ll never see this happen again.

> 2535424094525136;19:
> Switch to a 1ms monitor. You’ll never see this happen again.

I think the problem is more complicated than what monitor everybody is using.