Is the good of Halo 5 being swallowed by the bad?

As someone who has watched for information on the changes to each consecutive Halo game since the time of Halo 2 to Halo 3, the general demeanor I have had for ever piece of information has been that of pure excitement. I look to all the things that are being added to the game, and jump up and down excitedly as I can’t wait for the release date. Halo 5 has broken this trend, because for every moment that 343 does something I am so happy with, they take away a mechanic to the series that has been a cornerstone to what is considered Halo.

-We are giving you an amazing 4v4 combat, but we aren’t going to give you any Big Team Battle Maps until DLC, and you will need to make due with Warzone.-
-We are going to give you free DLC, so that we keep our community on the same maps, but we are going to remove the option for you to choose which map you play-
-We are going to give you the most amazing campaign of any of the Halo games, but you can’t play it with your friends and family on the same screen-
-We are going to make all the pre-order DLC acquirable without pre-order, but we are going to add micro-transactions-
-We are going to add a game mode that applies AI to the combat like Titanfall, but we are going to not give you any firefight, spartan ops-

There are so many more, but let me go over why these things I talk about are bad changes, and not me just whining:

Warzone without BTB:

Warzone is being advertised as a game mode that isn’t meant to be competitive, that it is more for enjoyment which is great… but when you have large communities that are looking to be competitive and keep together, rather than split up, you will have these people going to Warzone. Warzone, which should be treated as a casual gaming experience will be tainted with people eager to grief other players, just camping bosses and objectives with a sniper, not really working to win the game, but play denial to others. Yes it is a legitimate strategy, but one that will tarnish the experience of Warzone. While this will be fixed eventually, it’s a situation that shouldn’t be allowed to occur by a triple A game company.

No Democracy in map choice:

While it may seem like a good idea, in that maps should be played with a more average percentage, what this is doing is making it so that more people will avoid playing matchmaking without that choice, or worse, people will go into matchmaking, and leave the moment they don’t get the maps they want. Halo 5 doesn’t apply ‘drop-in games’ this means that in situations of smaller numbers games (like the game’s prized 4v4) if someone drops out because they don’t like the map, then their team has a massive disadvantage. What this does, is it makes a further gap between MLG and pro-playing groups, and those of standard community members, not based on skill, but based upon what the two groups have in terms to work with. You can also claim that if all the maps are good, then there shouldn’t be a reason to quit a game. That’s true, but if you tell me that there hasn’t always been 1-2 maps in a Halo game that have been ignored because it wasn’t loved by the community, then you are lying. This could easily be fixed, if they made ranked playlists incapable of voting, forcing people to work to be flexible with strategy, but I personally don’t feel like trying to waste 30 minutes to play the one map during my 1 hour of relaxation.

No Split-screen:

I understand why it wasn’t applied in the game, based upon some things they talk about, but it doesn’t make it right. This is one of the cornerstones of a Halo games that 343i have removed. This will destroy playing the game with friends socially, it takes a step away from games being something that can be a social interaction with families, it CRIPPLES machinimators out there… In total it put’s a huge dent into a game that has always been couch friendly. I am willing to cope without it, but 343 is stupid if they can’t see how this one feature has destroyed their profits.

Micro-Transactions:

This is a much lesser issue, but to me micro-transactions to me is like a cancer to a series. It isn’t extra enjoying content that we get for money, it is paying money to acquire something in a game we could have through playing the game, but we didn’t want to play the game to get it. This brings two indefensible points to the floor:

1.) If you didn’t want to acquire the item through playing the game, then why are you playing the game?
2.) If the game has moments to it that make people want to use microtransactions to avoid playing a game to acquire something they want, then why did the developers create a situation that people wanted to skip other than to milk us for cash?

I am more than happy to give my money to a game that I love, and know that the game had so much love put into it, that it is easily worth more than it’s pricetag, but I’de rather go about doing that by other means, either buying the game for someone else close to me to enjoy playing the game with them, and bringing them into the Halo universe, buying the music for the game, or even just through donations. Microtransactions simply from them being in the game to me, means there is a need for them, and a need that was generated because a company wants more money.

Warzone isn’t a substitute for Firefight/Spartan Ops:

Before I begin this, I am not hating on Warzone, it is simply not a spiritual successor to either of these PvE game modes. Warzone is something that is advertised as a ‘whole package Halo experience’, with enemies of both human, and AI basis, with a blend of competitive and casual gaming elements. To myself personally, PvE gamemodes have been either something you do when you want to play more casually, or if you want to work to hone your skill with game mechanics (not to be confused with skill for PvP, but basically ingraining how long it takes for shields to recharge, how long do we need to run before doing a Spartan slam, grenade arcs, ect.). PvE game modes also give the players something they can typically play without a connection, giving the game an extended play time without the campaign becoming something dull and repetitive.

It’s true that there is also differences between Firefight, Spartan Ops, and Campaign, but I would think Halo 5 is in desperate need of Firefight over Spartan Ops for the following reasons:
1.) Spartan Ops focused more on story, and with Halo 5 being doted as one of the biggest campaigns in the series, I think we will already be sated by story needs
2.) Warzone isn’t something that can be played without a connection, or without an opposing team (at least yet, hopefully for both). The game needs to apply something more to it other than Campaign in terms of PvE (PvPvE being ignored), no other Halo game has been without a second PvE option since Halo 3: ODST.
3.) Nathan Fillion’s character Buck has always been in Halo games that was paired with Firefight… how is this not being continued?!

Warzone for as amazing, or poor as it may be though, isn’t a substitute for a method to test the player against ever increasingly difficult enemies. The campaign will be static in it’s skirmishes (which can’t be fixed easily, and don’t expect that to be fixed), and my personal craving for PvE demands more.

In Summary:

Halo 5 has broken a long standing trend of excitement in the series as I wait excitedly for it’s release date. It has changed excitement into fear that I shouldn’t be spending my money on Halo 5’s xbox, but instead on other games.

Agreed.

343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.

  • BTB will be in the game not too long after launch I believe.

  • The no democracy thing is a little strange, but if it doesn’t work out I’d think it would take a relatively easy update for them to create a voting/veto system instead.

  • The micro transactions really aren’t an issue. And they likely are what allows us to get the 15 free maps. And they feed into the prize pool of competetive events. I’d rather the game didn’t really have them. But they do grant other parts of the game some very nice benefits by existing in warzone.

  • Warzone is definitely not a sub for firefight, and I don’t think it was ever intended to be. However, 343 has made a statement regarding the potential of some sort of PvE form of Warzone post-launch. Which would likely fill the void left by Firefight/Spartan Ops, at least partially.

  • Split Screen is an unfortunate situation. And imo this is the only major issue Halo 5 has to deal with. I don’t think the others have quite as much impact. There are still so many people splitscreening in the MCC/other Halos that this community really wasn’t ready to lose that. Its sucks, but its hard to argue with the logic of the situation. A grander more ambitious scope for the game, and the higher framerate. The higher framerate was really probably not even up to 343. Gamers demand 60fps from most of their games these days. And Microsoft’s Console seller couldn’t be one of the games playing at 30fps. It would look really bad for the Xbox One. If it can’t get games to 1080p then it at least needs to be getting 60fps to keep up with its competitor, the PS4. In a 30fps scenario I’m sure splitscreen would have been possible. And it looks like 343 tried to make it work. Their original statement was that multiplayer would have 2-player splitscreen. Which means that they thought it would work out. It is what it is. If they can get a 2-player split mode in post launch, then that would help to mend one of H5’s huge major downsides and lift the spirits of many fans.

> 2811398874529013;2:
> Agreed.
>
> 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.

Do tell.

Remind me again, what is so bad about Halo 5?

> 2811398874529013;2:
> Agreed.
>
> 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.

It honesty could be. A great deal of my apprehension also lies in that I have invest $700 bucks in Halo 5. I’m giving my old xbox 1 to my brother, along with Halo 5 Limited edition while I upgrade to the new Halo 5 Xbox. The new system could be amazing, but I always look at a removal of options as a bad thing until it’s proven to be a good change.

> 2533274807231709;6:
> > 2811398874529013;2:
> > Agreed.
> >
> > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
>
>
> It honesty could be. A great deal of my apprehension also lies in that I have invest $700 bucks in Halo 5. I’m giving my old xbox 1 to my brother, along with Halo 5 Limited edition while I upgrade to the new Halo 5 Xbox. The new system could be amazing, but I always look at a removal of options as a bad thing until it’s proven to be a good change.

You shouldn’t invest so much if you’re having your doubts. Surprisingly you aren’t the first person who I’ve seen make a topic about how they are concerned about Halo 5, and then admit that they already are putting down hundreds on it. It confuses me a little.

> 2533274912254619;4:
> > 2811398874529013;2:
> > Agreed.
> >
> > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
>
>
> Do tell.

I suggest you reread my thing this time, and not skim it.

> 2533274912254619;7:
> > 2533274807231709;6:
> > > 2811398874529013;2:
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
> >
> >
> > It honesty could be. A great deal of my apprehension also lies in that I have invest $700 bucks in Halo 5. I’m giving my old xbox 1 to my brother, along with Halo 5 Limited edition while I upgrade to the new Halo 5 Xbox. The new system could be amazing, but I always look at a removal of options as a bad thing until it’s proven to be a good change.
>
>
> You shouldn’t invest so much if you’re having your doubts. Surprisingly you aren’t the first person who I’ve seen make a topic about how they are concerned about Halo 5, and then admit that they already are putting down hundreds on it. It confuses me a little.

A large chunk of that falls on the xbox, and an xbox is needed for my brother. It is something that is needed (or more accurately wanted), be it from Halo 5, or just a generic xbox. With that said, the things I’m seeing from Halo 5 makes me want to wait, and prefer to give that extra money to another company, or even invest in a PS4.

> 2533274912254619;4:
> > 2811398874529013;2:
> > Agreed.
> >
> > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
>
>
> Do tell.

Perhaps my phrasing was bad. By “actual vision”, I am referring to the series roots. I’m referring to the original gameplay of equal starts(which 343 has backpedaled back to, thank God), the trinity of shooting/melee/grenades, the original art design, a campaign with 3 sides fighting simultaneously, little emphasis on flashy ways to move around the multiplayer maps, and a story centered around a war with the Flood because the Forerunners had gone extinct centuries ago.

> 2533274912254619;3:
> - BTB will be in the game not too long after launch I believe.
> - The no democracy thing is a little strange, but if it doesn’t work out I’d think it would take a relatively easy update for them to create a voting/veto system instead.
> - The micro transactions really aren’t an issue. And they likely are what allows us to get the 15 free maps. And they feed into the prize pool of competetive events. I’d rather the game didn’t really have them. But they do grant other parts of the game some very nice benefits by existing in warzone.
> - Warzone is definitely not a sub for firefight, and I don’t think it was ever intended to be. However, 343 has made a statement regarding the potential of some sort of PvE form of Warzone post-launch. Which would likely fill the void left by Firefight/Spartan Ops, at least partially.
>
> - Split Screen is an unfortunate situation. And imo this is the only major issue Halo 5 has to deal with. I don’t think the others have quite as much impact. There are still so many people splitscreening in the MCC/other Halos that this community really wasn’t ready to lose that. Its sucks, but its hard to argue with the logic of the situation. A grander more ambitious scope for the game, and the higher framerate. The higher framerate was really probably not even up to 343. Gamers demand 60fps from most of their games these days. And Microsoft’s Console seller couldn’t be one of the games playing at 30fps. It would look really bad for the Xbox One. If it can’t get games to 1080p then it at least needs to be getting 60fps to keep up with its competitor, the PS4. In a 30fps scenario I’m sure splitscreen would have been possible. And it looks like 343 tried to make it work. Their original statement was that multiplayer would have 2-player splitscreen. Which means that they thought it would work out. It is what it is. If they can get a 2-player split mode in post launch, then that would help to mend one of H5’s huge major downsides and lift the spirits of many fans.

It’s true that Warzone has teased at this, but it hasn’t been confirmed. On top of that, that Warzone is something you can only do in matchmaking also means that you couldn’t do PvE Warzone without a connection, something that also irks me. Alongside that, Firefight had the ability to customize waves, difficulty and behavior of enemies, something lost on Warzone. If they think Warzone could substitute fully for a lack of Firefight in the game, that’s along the lines of thinking a plush animal can substitute for your beloved pet who your parents tell you went to the ‘farm’.

> 2811398874529013;10:
> > 2533274912254619;4:
> > > 2811398874529013;2:
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
> >
> >
> > Do tell.
>
>
> Perhaps my phrasing was bad. By “actual vision”, I am referring to the series roots. I’m referring to the original gameplay of equal starts(which 343 has backpedaled back to, thank God), the trinity of shooting/melee/grenades, the original art design, a campaign with 3 sides fighting simultaneously, little emphasis on flashy ways to move around the multiplayer maps, and a story centered around a war with the Flood because the Forerunners had gone extinct centuries ago.

the art design is the same as Halo 4, a design many criticized.

In the vid-ocs for Halo Reach, Bungie spoke of “You don’t polish diamonds, you cut them” And they meant this as you sometimes need to cut material to really make an amazing product. Halo 5 has DEFINITELY taken this mentality, and I’ll be amazed if the campaign sucks, I know that the 4v4 is amazing from the Beta, but just because your kid comes home with 2 A’s on his report card, doesn’t mean you can overlook the triple F’s, and the D+.

The only things you mentioned that really irk me are Splitscreen and Firefight - but even then, regarding splitscreen, I don’t really use it much personally - just sucks for those odd times you have a friend around and feel like a game or want to host a LAN party with half as many box’s but that rarely happens for me.

We have hope for Firefight, we know they have AI in Warzone and have hints at what they’re planning, my guess is it that it will be DLC, and that’s fine, because then they’ll give it the time, attention and maps it deserves. Until then, I’ll be more than happy with all the new goodies (on my sadly whole screen haha).

> 2533274805962294;13:
> The only things you mentioned that really irk me are Splitscreen and Firefight - but even then, regarding splitscreen, I don’t really use it much personally - just sucks for those odd times you have a friend around and feel like a game or want to host a LAN party with half as many box’s but that rarely happens for me.
>
> We have hope for Firefight, we know they have AI in Warzone and have hints at what they’re planning, my guess is it that it will be DLC, and that’s fine, because then they’ll give it the time, attention and maps it deserves. Until then, I’ll be more than happy with all the new goodies (on my sadly whole screen haha).

Honestly I do very little with splitscreen myself, however I DID use to to create comics, using multiple controllers, theater, and photoshop to make comics within my community. Now I have to resort to drawing via tablet, which is still alright, but sadly it feels less ‘machinima-y’.

If they applied Firefight (not Warzone PvE) but genuine Firefight with ability to play it offline, to customize waves, and enemy behavior I would shut up 100%, everything else in the game to me would be a trivial issue.

For me, the answer is a resounding no. My hype and excitement for Halo has always come from the campaign. For various reasons, online MP has just never really grabbed me. The only times I play is with friends or if going for achievements, even then if I can get the achievement in a private match then I will. That said, Warzone looks insane enough for me to at least try it

Halo 5’s campaign is shaping up to be fantastic, had some concerns over the A.I but those have been alleviated. Can’t wait to get stuck in at midnight 27th October

> 2811398874529013;10:
> > 2533274912254619;4:
> > > 2811398874529013;2:
> > > Agreed.
> > >
> > > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
> >
> >
> > Do tell.
>
>
> Perhaps my phrasing was bad. By “actual vision”, I am referring to the series roots. I’m referring to the original gameplay of equal starts(which 343 has backpedaled back to, thank God), the trinity of shooting/melee/grenades, the original art design, a campaign with 3 sides fighting simultaneously, little emphasis on flashy ways to move around the multiplayer maps, and a story centered around a war with the Flood because the Forerunners had gone extinct centuries ago.

See this doesnt make sense to me. So halo 5 isnt halo because its not the halo you want. It has equal starts like you mention and it does still have the trinity but with more depth. Yes you can thrust, ground pound, spartan charge, slide and hover but they are all movement mechanics that require movement to do. So when you are & are not doing those things the trinity is still there. The original art design was great but so is the new design and if you honestly think the new design is “halo” because its not old or dine by bungie then you need to take another look. Your campaign point also lacks because you dont know the campaign so you cant say its not halo if you only know like 5% of the story.

Sounds like you just want to reply the old halo games that you call “true halo”. Guess what halo 2 is my favorite game and im not bashing 343i for not giving me a halo 2 clone.

There are so many versions of media out there of characters that you never hear someone complain about things like the different versions of superman or batman. Its still that character no matter how much you change the suit or design. Man of steel was great even though it wasnt the classic superman look. Do you get what im saying?

Halo is still halo even though the designs change. A ghost is still a ghost and master chief is still master chief. The forerunner tech might look different but it doesnt make it not forerunner just because its not done by bungie.

> 2533274906745123;15:
> For me, the answer is a resounding no. My hype and excitement for Halo has always come from the campaign. For various reasons, online MP has just never really grabbed me. The only times I play is with friends or if going for achievements, even then if I can get the achievement in a private match then I will. That said, Warzone looks insane enough for me to at least try it
>
> Halo 5’s campaign is shaping up to be fantastic, had some concerns over the A.I but those have been alleviated. Can’t wait to get stuck in at midnight 27th October

it’s true the campaign is shaping up to be amazing, but I’m trying to talk about big picture stuff. To me, I feel like the best game of the series was Halo Reach and I say that while thinking Halo Reach had one of the worst multiplayers. Halo Reach had a greatly improved forge, it had a more customizable spartan and forge options, it had firefight, and a great campaign. While I could point out it’s flaws in the multiplayer for a long while, I am simply using this as an example of “Just because something isn’t gifted to us by god, but is still a great creation doesn’t mean it subtracts from the game” This can also be translated to “Fix the problems addressed above 343i”

> 2533274804406181;16:
> it does still have the trinity but with more depth. Yes you can thrust, ground pound, spartan charge, slide and hover but they are all movement mechanics that require movement to do. So when you are & are not doing those things the trinity is still there.

So therefore it doesn’t have the trinity if there are central gameplay mechanics that are specifically designed to disable one of the three pillars. It’s now an oddly shaped trapezoid instead.

Whether or not this is an improvement or a step backwards is a different point entirely.

> 2533274912254619;4:
> > 2811398874529013;2:
> > Agreed.
> >
> > 343 is so consumed with “their vision” of Halo that they are forsaking the “actual vision” of Halo. The only bit of your post I disagree with is the change regarding map voting. I feel that going back to the H2 system was a smart move on 343’s part.
>
>
> Do tell.

Right? Last time I checked 343i makes Halo and follow the story far more than Bungie ever did. Their vision is the actual vision of Halo, they literally are Halo…

> 2533274837720524;19:
> Right? Last time I checked 343i makes Halo and follow the story far more than Bungie ever did.

…which is why the first thing they did after taking over was retcon the entire backstory of the Forerunner, the Halos and the Flood.