Is it too soon to ask for a tier list?

I’m trying to figure out serina or jerome really but I always like reading the comments on tier list posts so hopefully I am not jumping the gun on this new patch.

  1. Cutter
  2. Kinsano
  3. Jerome
  4. Forge
  5. Irrelevant

You really feel serina is irrelevant? Why?

> 2533274820067357;3:
> You really feel serina is irrelevant? Why?

Irrelevant is a bit of an exaggeration, but she’s no where close to the same level. The Fridge dies rather quickly to Grenades, she has nothing that can contend with Raid, ODST, or Redline early game.

Of course, this is just my opinion. But, from what I’ve seen so far, this has been my impression.

Atriox with Jump Brutes is the only Banished I would consider playing competitively right now.

> 2533274869891714;2:
> 1. Cutter
> 2. Kinsano
> 3. Jerome
> 4. Forge
> 5. Irrelevant

Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.

> 2533274869891714;2:
> 1. Cutter
> 2. Kinsano
> 3. Remaining UNSC
> 4. Atriox
> 5. Irrelevant

My 2 cents.

Tier S: Cutter Kinsano Forge Jerome
Tier A: Serina Isabel Anders
Tier B: Johnson Atriox Decimus Yap
Tier C: Colony Shipmaster Arbiter

> 2533274843481335;5:
> > 2533274869891714;2:
> > 1. Cutter
> > 2. Kinsano
> > 3. Jerome
> > 4. Forge
> > 5. Irrelevant
>
> Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.

Haha!

Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).

Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.

> 2533274821521504;6:
> > 2533274869891714;2:
> > 1. Cutter
> > 2. Kinsano
> > 3. Remaining UNSC
> > 4. Atriox
> > 5. Irrelevant
>
> My 2 cents.

Like I said in another comment; I think Jerome and Forge stand above the other UNSC.

Jerome due to TFH and Mastodons (seriously, try them). And Forge because of his excellent leader wheel.

Jump Pack Brutes with Trox are the only Banishied opener I see as viable. I’d agree there.

Again, this is all my opinion, though. And I’m terrible at this game :p.

> 2533274869891714;8:
> > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > 1. Cutter
> > > 2. Kinsano
> > > 3. Jerome
> > > 4. Forge
> > > 5. Irrelevant
> >
> > Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.
>
> Haha!
>
> Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).
>
> Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.

More to it than that. His eco and leader wheel were virtually the same when dark Phoenix and I were the only ones playing forge and everyone considered him “only slightly better than anders and Isabel” before season 4.

Which leads me to my point: a lot of the discussion behind tier lists is sensationalism. I don’t disagree entirely with your list, but I wouldn’t put “irrelevant” anywhere in there. To be honest, the state of balance is pretty damn good right now. Cutter and Jerome have a clear advantage with speedy and tougher infantry but that doesn’t mean the gap isn’t closing with other leaders.

I’ve said it month after month now, but people will parrot what top players are saying without much thought. When forge was strong as hell my duo partner and I used colony/Decimus to constantly take down some of the better duo teams time and time again despite seeing these silly tier lists come out telling us that both were trash.

2v2 is a different animal than 1v1, true. But I’ll go ahead and make a bold statement:

The state of balance is as good as it has ever been, rivaling and even surpassing the release of Colony, with each leader have a clear, unique advantage in his/her/its own way.

Read the patch notes and think for yourself what would work for you at your level. The top tier players will do what works for them, but we play at a level where one mistake can and generally will cost you the game. That doesn’t speak for everyone. Not trying to sound cocky but it’s true.

Loomx and I read the patch notes and instantly knew cutter was back and Jerome would be more relevant. So we ran cutter/Jerome and, well, other solid duos are doing the same damn thing.

> 2533274869891714;2:
> 1. Cutter
> 2. Kinsano
> 3. Jerome
> 4. Forge
> 5. Irrelevant

i may be inexperience in the game but it seems like its

1 cutter
2 cutter
3 cutter
4 cutter
5 cutter
6 cutter
7 cutter
8 cutter
9 cutter
10 kinsano

> 2533274812650916;10:
> > 2533274869891714;8:
> > > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > > 1. Cutter
> > > > 2. Kinsano
> > > > 3. Jerome
> > > > 4. Forge
> > > > 5. Irrelevant
> > >
> > > Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.
> >
> > Haha!
> >
> > Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).
> >
> > Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.
>
> More to it than that. His eco and leader wheel were virtually the same when dark Phoenix and I were the only ones playing forge and everyone considered him “only slightly better than anders and Isabel” before season 4.
>
> Which leads me to my point: a lot of the discussion behind tier lists is sensationalism. I don’t disagree entirely with your list, but I wouldn’t put “irrelevant” anywhere in there. To be honest, the state of balance is pretty damn good right now. Cutter and Jerome have a clear advantage with speedy and tougher infantry but that doesn’t mean the gap isn’t closing with other leaders.
>
> I’ve said it month after month now, but people will parrot what top players are saying without much thought. When forge was strong as hell my duo partner and I used colony/Decimus to constantly take down some of the better duo teams time and time again despite seeing these silly tier lists come out telling us that both were trash.
>
> 2v2 is a different animal than 1v1, true. But I’ll go ahead and make a bold statement:
>
> The state of balance is as good as it has ever been, rivaling and even surpassing the release of Colony, with each leader have a clear, unique advantage in his/her/its own way.
>
> Read the patch notes and think for yourself what would work for you at your level. The top tier players will do what works for them, but we play at a level where one mistake can and generally will cost you the game. That doesn’t speak for everyone. Not trying to sound cocky but it’s true.
>
> Loomx and I read the patch notes and instantly knew cutter was back and Jerome would be more relevant. So we ran cutter/Jerome and, well, other solid duos are doing the same damn thing.

Of course there’s more to it than this, my man. I’m just scratching the surface here. Wasn’t going to drop an eight paragraph essay in Chicago format, lol.

I never viewed any UNSC as viable until Jerome, really, as Cutter was better in just about every way back then. Not to mention, Banished ran the show with Choppers. Since Choppers got brought down (season 4, I think it was), other UNSC could compete. But, Cutter/Jerome was better in just about every way, so why pick a weaker leader over them, you feel me?

As as I said in another comment, irrelevant is an exaggeration. Obviously, one can play another leader, Shipmaster lets say, and do well. Picking from a pool of the strongest leaders doesn’t guarantee a win; skill has always been, and will always be the biggest factor in deciding a match. Hell, I’ve been beating Cutter players with Shipmaster the last few days. It’s not easy, but it’s certainly possible.

I would have to disagree when you say the state of balance is pretty good right now. Banished is in far too poor of a situation early game for the game to be considered remotely balanced, in my opinion. We’re definitely heading in the right direction, though. Making T2 vehicles viable was a huge step in the right direction, among other changes. If the early game can becomes little more equal between the two factions, I think we’ll be on a nice spot, but right now, I would disagree.

Sure, some people love to parade around the top players and take their word as final, but not everyone is like that. Personally, I couldn’t care less what “top players” say or do. Most of them are arrogant jerks that only add toxicity to this community. I try to avoid picking the “meta leaders”, it was boring having six Jeromes or Six Forges on a map. Kinda like your story, my friend and I would play Jerome/Arby in 2’s when Forge was in his prime. The crazy part is, we would beat “top players” all day long. Of course, every single one of these players was using Forge, YapYap, or Decimus. This brings me back to my point earlier; picking the strongest leaders doesn’t guarantee wins. My friend and I were able to beat “top players” who are using the strongest leaders, while him and I use the mediocre ones. Skill is more important.

To be honest, I don’t even know what level I’m playing at, nor do I really care. I just want to enjoy the game with some mates.

Anyways, I stand by my list. The top four leaders I listed outclass pretty well all other leaders and posses clear advantages. Sure, other leaders are usuable, but they’re just not as good. Simple as that.

Wow, that was a lot of words to type this early in the morning.

Thank you for the discussion!

> 2533274869891714;8:
> > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > 1. Cutter
> > > 2. Kinsano
> > > 3. Jerome
> > > 4. Forge
> > > 5. Irrelevant
> >
> > Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.
>
> Haha!
>
> Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).
>
> Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.

Do vehicle upgrades work on mastodons health?

> 2533274916206345;7:
> Tier S: Cutter Kinsano Forge Jerome
> Tier A: Serina Isabel Anders
> Tier B: Johnson Atriox Decimus Yap
> Tier C: Colony Shipmaster Arbiter

Thanks!

> 2533274820067357;13:
> > 2533274869891714;8:
> > > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > > 1. Cutter
> > > > 2. Kinsano
> > > > 3. Jerome
> > > > 4. Forge
> > > > 5. Irrelevant
> > >
> > > Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.
> >
> > Haha!
> >
> > Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).
> >
> > Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.
>
> Do vehicle upgrades work on mastodons health?

As far as I’m aware, yes.

> 2533274812650916;10:
> > 2533274869891714;8:
> > > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > > 1. Cutter
> > > > 2. Kinsano
> > > > 3. Jerome
> > > > 4. Forge
> > > > 5. Irrelevant
> > >
> > > Move irrelevant up to spot number 3 and drop the rest from the tier list. They completely botched this balance update… again.
> >
> > Haha!
> >
> > Jerome deserves third; TFH is still good and Mastodons are surprisingly strong (seriously).
> >
> > Forge gets fourth because of Rolling Eco (more units early) and his Leader Wheel is still strong.
>
> More to it than that. His eco and leader wheel were virtually the same when dark Phoenix and I were the only ones playing forge and everyone considered him “only slightly better than anders and Isabel” before season 4.
>
> Which leads me to my point: a lot of the discussion behind tier lists is sensationalism. I don’t disagree entirely with your list, but I wouldn’t put “irrelevant” anywhere in there. To be honest, the state of balance is pretty damn good right now. Cutter and Jerome have a clear advantage with speedy and tougher infantry but that doesn’t mean the gap isn’t closing with other leaders.
>
> I’ve said it month after month now, but people will parrot what top players are saying without much thought. When forge was strong as hell my duo partner and I used colony/Decimus to constantly take down some of the better duo teams time and time again despite seeing these silly tier lists come out telling us that both were trash.
>
> 2v2 is a different animal than 1v1, true. But I’ll go ahead and make a bold statement:
>
> The state of balance is as good as it has ever been, rivaling and even surpassing the release of Colony, with each leader have a clear, unique advantage in his/her/its own way.
>
> Read the patch notes and think for yourself what would work for you at your level. The top tier players will do what works for them, but we play at a level where one mistake can and generally will cost you the game. That doesn’t speak for everyone. Not trying to sound cocky but it’s true.
>
> Loomx and I read the patch notes and instantly knew cutter was back and Jerome would be more relevant. So we ran cutter/Jerome and, well, other solid duos are doing the same damn thing.

Agree with almost everything said here. .

> 2533274812650916;10:
> To be honest, the state of balance is pretty damn good right now.

Each time I read anyone saying this I die a little inside.

> 2533274812650916;10:
> Read the patch notes and think for yourself what would work for you at your level. The top tier players will do what works for them, but we play at a level where one mistake can and generally will cost you the game. That doesn’t speak for everyone. Not trying to sound cocky but it’s true.

I’m not sure if it’s fue to population numbers going down, but I play from golds to top 10 players all the time. And when you see golds and top 10 and anything in between doing the same thing then that tells you something. This is the clearest sign of an imbalanced game. Of course the higher tiers do that more effectively but the lower tiers still do it pretty well, and that’s because the skill ceiling (proficiency, but not quite mastery) for an overpowered hero was brought down.

I read the patch notes and immediately opened a thread for marines. I was a little skeptical due to mines, but hell mines are still garbage so I was correct then. You don’t have to be a genius, or listen to high levels, or play a few games to sometimes spot something that just doesn’t sound right. Marines looked overpowered, and playing just confirmed it. And playing revealed a bunch of other imbalanced issues like flamers over buffed, rangers overnerfed, siege turrets wiping ground, heroes unviable.

This game is not balanced, at any tier, it’s quite the opposite.

Forgot to add something to my first paragraph:

When Yap released, the meta was broken yes, and high tiers stomped. But the golds, plats and diamonds used a variety of leaders. Now you just see a cutter or a kinsano every single damn game, and still any UNSC is leagues better than atriox at anything that isn’t a top 10 v top 10 match.

> 2533274812650916;10:
> > 2533274869891714;8:
> > > 2533274843481335;5:
> > > > 2533274869891714;2:
> > > > 1. Cutter
> > > > 2. Kinsano
> > > > 3. Jerome
> > > > 4. Forge
> > > > 5. Irrelevant
>
> More to it than that. His eco and leader wheel were virtually the same when dark Phoenix and I were the only ones playing forge and everyone considered him “only slightly better than anders and Isabel” before season 4.
>
> Which leads me to my point: a lot of the discussion behind tier lists is sensationalism. I don’t disagree entirely with your list, but I wouldn’t put “irrelevant” anywhere in there. To be honest, the state of balance is pretty damn good right now. Cutter and Jerome have a clear advantage with speedy and tougher infantry but that doesn’t mean the gap isn’t closing with other leaders.
>
> I’ve said it month after month now, but people will parrot what top players are saying without much thought. When forge was strong as hell my duo partner and I used colony/Decimus to constantly take down some of the better duo teams time and time again despite seeing these silly tier lists come out telling us that both were trash.
>
> 2v2 is a different animal than 1v1, true. But I’ll go ahead and make a bold statement:
>
> The state of balance is as good as it has ever been, rivaling and even surpassing the release of Colony, with each leader have a clear, unique advantage in his/her/its own way.
>
> Read the patch notes and think for yourself what would work for you at your level. The top tier players will do what works for them, but we play at a level where one mistake can and generally will cost you the game. That doesn’t speak for everyone. Not trying to sound cocky but it’s true.
>
> Loomx and I read the patch notes and instantly knew cutter was back and Jerome would be more relevant. So we ran cutter/Jerome and, well, other solid duos are doing the same damn thing.

I agree here, and would like to live by this philosophy.
Even last season, I ran Johnson a lot in 1s. I beat lots of Forges/Decis/Yaps. It’s an awesome feeling. Went outside the norm, and beat a player using the norm.

My problem is that doing so is always an uphill battle. Mostly, I mean in terms of time and effort. Mostly time.
If I play Johnson and win, it’s usually after a 40-60 minute game, because I have to play super smart, and beat an opponent that can Y ability my army away.
If I played as Deci and won, it usually took about 12 minutes, and involved a vortex and a warlord.
The Johnson play (above) is SO MUCH more fun for me, and way more rewarding than grinding with the top Deci strat.
But, it takes forever, and way more effort than my opp is putting out.

If I had lots more time (and tended to sweat less), I would be OK with this, because I love when ppl go outside the norm.

It just gets exhausting. And that’s how i feel now playing as banished.
Yes, I can win, but after 40 minutes and with a sweat-drenched shirt.

> 2533274796391115;19:
> > 2533274812650916;10:
> > > 2533274869891714;8:
> > >
>
> I agree here, and would like to live by this philosophy.
> Even last season, I ran Johnson a lot in 1s. I beat lots of Forges/Decis/Yaps. It’s an awesome feeling. Went outside the norm, and beat a player using the norm.
>
> My problem is that doing so is always an uphill battle. Mostly, I mean in terms of time and effort. Mostly time.
> If I play Johnson and win, it’s usually after a 40-60 minute game, because I have to play super smart, and beat an opponent that can Y ability my army away.
> If I played as Deci and won, it usually took about 12 minutes, and involved a vortex and a warlord.
> The Johnson play (above) is SO MUCH more fun for me, and way more rewarding than grinding with the top Deci strat.
> But, it takes forever, and way more effort than my opp is putting out.
>
> If I had lots more time (and tended to sweat less), I would be OK with this, because I love when ppl go outside the norm.
>
> It just gets exhausting. And that’s how i feel now playing as banished.
> Yes, I can win, but after 40 minutes and with a sweat-drenched shirt.

This is the exact reason I still play HW2 just a lot less than I did previously. I can still play and win as some of the less powerful leaders, I just spend so much effort doing it I get burnt out so fast haha